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  1. #71
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    hmm. Maybe I'm just so jaded by E4's "fml" mentality that I refuse to believe its anything other than a choice, haha. My ISFP 4 ex lived a rather peachy life up until she was 25 when her entire family died and now its the definition of her life. Makes me wonder if enneagram tendencies are actually nurture as opposed to nature. I personally see myself becomming more 8-like overtime. It seems like, each time I'm angry in my life, I'm angrier than the last one, to the point that I feel like I'm slowly going insane. I see myself slowly developing more and more of the "excessive" tendencies when angry. Maybe I'm just finally starting to notice them and they've been here the whole time.
    Obviously she would need some period of time to mourn the loss of her family before being expected to be okay with it, but I do think you have a point with "the choice" aspect. It's a choice for all of us to change, but usually when we are unhealthy we don't see that. Or more specifically we can't clearly see what we need to do or choose. The choice for me that led to health was to focus on something other than my own pain, to see beyond and realize I could move forward if I wanted to. I think it requires first the genuine desire to do so, and then a heck ton of accountability from people who love you.

    You can make a choice about your anger, but you have to want to change for the better.
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my six question Enneagram surveyEnneagram survey!✨

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    Obviously she would need some period of time to mourn the loss of her family before being expected to be okay with it, but I do think you have a point with "the choice" aspect. It's a choice for all of us to change, but usually when we are unhealthy we don't see that. Or more specifically we can't clearly see what we need to do or choose. The choice for me that led to health was to focus on something other than my own pain, to see beyond and realize I could move forward if I wanted to. I think it requires first the genuine desire to do so, and then a heck ton of accountability from people who love you.

    You can make a choice about your anger, but you have to want to change for the better.
    hmm. Healing the anger is... hard. First I need to understand where it comes from. Either I'm still high from those 2 tablespoons of THC syrup I drank 2 days ago, or I figured out how to cure the anger and the excess. or I'm just spending too much time living with EFJ's

  3. #73
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I've always felt 4's needed to "experience hell" first hand.
    Now, this resonates all the way back to my earliest memories. I pretty much came up with the idea of original sin for myself. Not a good little girl by birth, but it was my lot to get out of that dark destiny by understanding good and evil as concepts and with that understanding, redeeming myself, with help from nobody. I was too little to understand advanced discussions of moral philosophy, but I did pour over the children's chapter books in my elementary school library to try and synthesize the adult authors' perspectives on right and wrong into something I could grow up into. I didn't bother actually talking these thoughts out with anybody because I knew I was working on something odd and assumed they wouldn't understand what I was talking about (as per usual). Revelations is the only full section of the bible I've read, and I was maybe eight years old at the time.

    Also had the complex of thinking bad things would happen to me if I didn't follow the religion's rules to the letter.

    Not a Christian anymore today, though. I've tested a lot of spiritual waters since without buying any. When I leave something behind, it's not because I have a single rebellious bone in my body, but because they don't make sense logically, and I don't know how to return to a state of faith from that.
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  4. #74
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    hmm. Maybe I'm just so jaded by E4's "fml" mentality that I refuse to believe its anything other than a choice, haha. My ISFP 4 ex lived a rather peachy life up until she was 25 when her entire family died and now its the definition of her life. Makes me wonder if enneagram tendencies are actually nurture as opposed to nature. I personally see myself becomming more 8-like overtime. It seems like, each time I'm angry in my life, I'm angrier than the last one, to the point that I feel like I'm slowly going insane. I see myself slowly developing more and more of the "excessive" tendencies when angry. Maybe I'm just finally starting to notice them and they've been here the whole time.
    LOL, I kind of have to agree with @uumlau about your ex--how's she supposed to be when her entire family died?? Still, you know her better, so I'll take your advice on that. Often, relatively healthy people can be knocked down on the health-o-meter when major disaster strikes. We can develop issues we didn't think possible.

    I kind of identify with the second part of your statement, though...I've kind of wondered if I'm not turning into a sociopath recently. I think there's an argument for both nature and nurture.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    The reason I asked this, is because most of the 4's I encounter have seemingly ditched christianity as a rebellious move. They give god the finger so they can delve into despair .
    Not for this 4. When my daughter died years ago, it was the worst agony and deepest sorrow I had ever felt. But I did not rebel against God because of it. I did have my anger at God, and it was in response to my grief, but I never turned away from him.

    I could have given the middle finger to life after my daughter died, but I didn't. I went into the valley of grief...I had to. Embracing grief takes time and no one can decide for another when it is time to move on from it. Because the way I see it, you never get over it, you learn how to live with it.

    There are times when I think of her and I feel sad, especially at Christmas time...my daughter died a few days after Christmas. I just feel the sadness in that moment and it does not overwhelm me or drive me back into despair. I just feel it, then I let it go, and I move forward knowing that she is always with me in memory and in my heart.

  6. #76
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    "What I love is that at the heart of Christianity, you have this idea of intimacy, which is true belonging, being seen, the ultimate home of individuation, the ultimate source of it and the homecoming." — John O'Donohue

    Not too eloquent since it comes from a radio transcript, but you get the idea. I've been agnostic for the past few years but I was a Christian before then.

    Almost positive John O'Donohue's a 4, too.

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