[Type 8] Why is there so much bullshit out there about enneagram 8's? (Rant)

[Sunny Ghost]

If a lot of people think you're a 6, it may be worth looking into.

However, you seem like an 8w7 to me.

But I don't feel solid about enneagram, unless someone is just a walking stereotype of their etype. Typing over the internet get's even harder.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

The answer is....personalitycafe. I like the site for its own sake but it is a macabre orgy of mistypes, misidentification and misinformation. Go into any one of the IN forums there. They're seriously like wading through rivers of effluence. There are mistypes in every orifice and in turn they are using each other as benchmarks of "the typical xyz" and from there criticising others who do not fit the mould. It is unfortunate that some start to become immune to the possibility of being mistypes themselves. Heck two of the mods there were mistyped for a long time (though I personally think they're cool and that alone doesn't bother me very much).

An analogy I would use would be bee hives where the inhabitants start making bizarre buzzing noises. The noise is a result of a non fatal illness and it spreads through the hive and neighbouring ones. Later on some chump comes along and believes that because all the bees are utilising a retarded buzz that this is typical behaviour and classifies it as such without stopping to ask whether there is actually something wrong with all the bees.

My advice mate would be to ask them where they got their information from. Citations and sources please!

EVERY.SINGLE.WORD.

I do love chatting with people on PC, but it got so stressful to read so much bullshit by grossly mistyped ignorant bimbos I left for months and only went back today.

A real 8 wouldn't give a shit about any of this ^^.

Yeah just let the haters hate. Who cares?

This is sort of passive aggressive.

This, though.

I mean I got people telling me I couldn't possibly be both an ENFP and a type 8 for months. Let alone when I dared to say that just because I'm an ENFP doesn't mean I'm an IEE in Socionics

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

When I was typed at 6, telling myself that descriptions were bad was just a part of my denial. Yet, I was surprised by how many other 6s came forward to say that they couldn't initially see themselves as 6s, either. It seems like a relatively common phenomenon to me, based on this.

I obtained a copy of Wisdom of the Enneagram about a month ago (which tends to be the most widely-read description), and I can see why mistypes might happen. Their depiction of the type sounds, in places, more like an anxiety disorder, and they emphasize inter-relational security (rather than wanting to find a solid foundation in life) and a fear of "trying new things"--which might stand for an SJ 6, but an ENTP 6w5, for example, might be a loner enthused at ideas of diversity and a brighter future (my father being one such). They also state that 6s are always aware of their anxieties, yet many cp6s actually think they are angry rather than anxious.

I've likewise met 1-fixed 6s who mistype at 8 due to the ethos of "stand your ground, look after yourself, trust no one, and struggle hard for your existence". In Wisdom, anyway, the open self-interest and even sadistic qualities aren't especially emphasized. I can see why there would be many mistypes.

It is possible that the 6s I spoke with were mistyped, and also possible that other types fail to see themselves in their respective types at a similar frequency to 6s, of course. I certainly have my share of gripes with the 4 description in Wisdom.

Just to be semi-constructive here, I find that the works of Tom Condon, Helen Palmer, Naranjo, as well as the descriptions on Ocean Moonshine to be very accurate in portraying the core psychology of the types. Other descriptions aren't necessarily as accurate--I saw one site telling me that 6w7s were all Republicans and 6w5s were all Democrats, for instance. This can be confusing for a casual surfer.


I think this is actually a fair point that no one seems to mention. Eights are a reactive type and express anger openly. They are often less inclined to see threats than a cp6 (or at least, perceive threats differently) and can be less volatile in certain respects--maybe roll more things off their back--but there is also an extremely low threshold for frustration and annoyance.

You've articulated it far better than I ever could, so I'll leave it here, but I think you are right to divert our collective attention back to that fact.

I really like this post and find truth in it about sixes. [MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION], don't take this the wrong way or in any way attacking but there may be something else going on with you than just enneagram confusion. This isn't a normal reaction to being questioned or even followed/harrassed as you say. It's a bit concerning because whether or not you are an E8 or E6 or whatever - this type of reaction and anger does not seem healthy. Any other issues must first be dealt with properly before enneagram and MBTI type can be established fully.

 

[tralala]

I don't see an enneagram 8 in DJ.

I've seen this behaviour from E3 and E6 tho.

Anyways, it's misguided to use enneagram as a way to build an identity. Building it on being an ESTP and enneagram 8 destroys the potential to awaken from our slumber. Identifying ourselves is a way to shine a light on our habits we are not aware of. If you're an E6, it would be good to admit it and evolve by seeing that these habits are holding you in. Enneagram should be a way to make your life better, not keep your imprisoned, battling others and finding a way to feel good about yourself. Most people forget that learning about these things is to better enable you to get to your goal in the most sustainable way.

The journey is long.

 

[The Great One]

poor guy is brainwashed as all hell.

[MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION]. I'm taking you off ignore, because this is hilarious, and I used to like you before you turned into a...

quit talking to these people on ventrillo and start making your own decisions. you're smart enough to do that you know. You're a lot of fun to talk to when you're not trying to defend something that doesn't serve you any valid purpose.

Listen, I don't hate your guts dude, I'm just trying to help you to realize that you are mis-typed.

 

[kyuuei]

I mean I got people telling me I couldn't possibly be both an ENFP and a type 8 for months. Let alone when I dared to say that just because I'm an ENFP doesn't mean I'm an IEE in Socionics

This entirely. Being one of these myself, yeah it is frustrating that you tell people, "Hey, I did research and shit, and spent actual time on this shit and turns out this is what I am." And some know-it-all is like "That's such a rare thing that it's not really probable." and you kind of have to be "Your face is rare and improbable."

Enneagram should be a way to make your life better, not keep your imprisoned, battling others and finding a way to feel good about yourself. Most people forget that learning about these things is to better enable you to get to your goal in the most sustainable way.

But at the same time, if you're this angry about even bringing up the discussion of what type you are, then I feel like this isn't serving what it should. It should be identifying things about one's self.. not proving things about yourself to others.

I've had both my ENFP side and my type 8 called into question many times here. The people that know me IRL have said I am clearly both. I feel myself to be both based on the research I've done. That's good enough for me, and all I care to put into the systems.

Not to pick on [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION], but he's told me both that I was a classic type 8, and later on that he felt I wasn't at all. Which is fine, he can think what he wants and I'll even discuss the topic with him because who knows he might shed light on something I hadn't noticed, but at the end of the day I'm the one that knows myself best, and the internet only communicates so much.

 

[rav3n]

One clear distinction between a cp6 and an eight, would be that the cp6 will challenge authority because it's authority where an 8 will challenge authority, if their perception is that authority is making poor decisions.

 

[miss fortune]

One clear distinction between a cp6 and an eight, would be that the cp6 will challenge authority because it's authority where an 8 will challenge authority, if their perception is that authority is making poor decisions.

have to agree with this... damn I hate incompetence...

also, I'm more likely to become angry if I feel that someone is fucking with someone or something in my "realm of protected things and people" than if I feel that they're fucking with me... I can handle things on my own, but it is my JOB (in my mind) to stick up for and protect things that fall into my protected category... for a good part because I feel that they can't protect themselves NEARLY as adequately. Don't know how much that applies to others though...

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

When I first read about Enneagram 8s, I did not have positive impressions. But as I though about it, I realized that some of the terminology that rubbed me the wrong way is neutral. Making an impact isn't inherently good or bad... it depends on the impact.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

When I first read about Enneagram 8s, I did not have positive impressions. But as I though about it, I realized that some of the terminology that rubbed me the wrong way is neutral. Making an impact isn't inherently good or bad... it depends on the impact.

...and if you happen to be directly underneath it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

...and if you happen to be directly underneath it.

I shouldn't ask for a raise then, even though I'm underpaid just because I started as a temp? I shouldn't complain to my landlord about the heat not working? I can't see why not. Yet, I'm not naturally inclined to do this things. But why shouldn't I? Why do some people regard self-respect as a dirty word? Why must we all be martyrs, sacrificing for everyone else, and complaining about being unappreciated the whole time? That's not the life I want to live. I'm not a 2. I get little pleasure out of such things.

Do you enjoy being taken advantage of? I don't.

 

[Tem]

Hey DJ,

Apologies to recycle an old thread -- but I ran across this and wanted to contribute because I've seen all of your enneagram videos and many of your myers briggs videos.

First of all, I'd like to say that I agree with your main premise of this thread: I don't abdicate baseless witch-hunting based on written text -- because it is just that, baseless. You might think you have a sense for a person but you really don't unless you've seen them face to face.

That being said, I also think this banding against you is unneeded, and I do agree there are a number of trolls on this thread that just mindlessly follow the crowd -- Albeit, there are also a few people who oppose your viewpoints who do make some amounts of sense and deserve consideration as you've reciprocated more or less.

Regarding your type, I do agree that over written online text you do come off as a CP-6.
That being said, watching your videos you do not strike me as a type 6 at all. I would confidently say you come across as a 378 tritype. I wish that I could confidently pin the thumbtack on you being an 8, but really some part of me feels your exterior comes across as somewhat contrived.. that might be just me though.

Regardless, you know yourself best, and only you will ever truly know yourself -- sometimes we keep things from ourselves for long periods of time only to discover another truth in the future. I have no stance on what you are, and I refuse to take one because I find that type of mindset childish, immature, disrespectful.

Also, I think your videos are great (and some, ridiculously funny!)

p.s. apologies for overusing 'regardless' and 'that being said'

-Tem

 

[ginniebean]

Ok so maybe if I really tried, I can possibly see the guy as an Se dom. However, if you really think that this guy is really an 8, I will debate you until the end of my days.

This is the first thread I've read on this site. Happened to be googling 8's and decided to join. I've been studying the enneagram for almost 30 years now, and while I wouldn't bother arguing with you, that you tube video that was posted without doubt there's an 8 speaking.

What's unusual and strange to me, is why are people arguing with what is essentially there for a person to discover for themselves?

Denzel Washington and Russel Crowe are both 8's and they don't look particularly alike.

 

[infinite]

Fun thread.

How come so many enneagram 8's across the internet know exactly what I'm talking about?

(...)

It is absolutely frustrating to me that I have to be invited to a secret group on facebook in order to have healthy enneagram 8 discussions. Its is absolutely frustrating to me that everyone on the internet other than 8's themselves seem to think we are these walking gods among mortals.

I don't know what you're talking about.

But, where is this secret group? Wanna see it

Yeah it's bullshit about 8's being "walking gods".

I'm pretty sure I'd get just as insulted if you told me i was a 3 OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, because I fucking hate 3's. They are my worst enemies. narcissistic jealous insecure one-uppers, except those few times when they are not (which in my experience has been rare).

(...)

Its wierd. i have a very strong identity, except when I stand still I become blind to it. So when you suggest I am anything other than a ninja, i get angry.

Are you not a narcissistic one-upper yourself? You seem to be pretty much that.

Ninja? Have you got any Asperger traits?

I'm mad because my youtube subscribers are being banned from forums because they post my videos.

8's are not certain about their type, contrary to popular belief. 8's are self forgetting.

What the fuck do you mean by 8's being self-forgetting? 8's are an Id type, not self-forgetting at all. Quite the opposite. 8's got a lot of self-interest.

would be cool to meet another Se 8 on here. Gets lonely being the only person who likes to talk about explosions and fire all the time, haha.

Does ISTP 8 count as "Se 8" to you? I'm not really a pyromaniac though

Okay, why would someone want to be that?

But I'm a type that people supposedly want to be, too, cause it's fun being a self absorbed hypersensitive emotional wreck. Oh no wait, I mean a deeply romantic poetic artist.

I actually find type 4 cool. Don't ask why. Well, it's probably because of the intensity of emotions.

I unno DJ I'm pretty sure most Se dominants mostly just play video games, go to work and masterbate/fuck like a lot of people do. Granted they are typically jolly and somewhat pushy but I could tell you of a few Se dominants that aren't at all socionics makes them out to be. My mother is an ESTP, who'd probably be confused by an ESFJ by the more confused type. Some would confuse themselves with introverts with a good deal of hobbies to them.

A Se type is obvious because they take the situation at hand, and are very good at dealing with such a thing that it becomes second nature to them. They aren't so hyper aggressive. At least most of 'em aren't.

Some people call the bolded "aggressive".

You're right though, some socionics Se type descriptions seem to have a bit of enneagram motivations mixed in...

I always get this impression with DJ, at least ever since he changed his type from ISTP to ESTP. Always comes across as trying to prove something. Of course someone cannot possibly change just because of a difference in two letters that people use to describe them. Therefore, who is he most trying to convince? Himself of course.

But why on earth would the switch to ESTP typing cause that? What's so different between ISTP and ESTP? I'm honestly curious if you got thoughts on that.

I know I'm coming in super late on this, but better late than never!

Right.

I think 8 specifically is much easier to type IRL because you can feel an 8-- or I can anyway. They have a very full and solid presence that generally makes people shift stance a bit, and there's no show about it (though it feels like there is). Generally speaking if I don't feel met or pushed, an 8 is not present.

Give me a few real life examples/anecdotes of what made you feel "met" / "pushed" by someone else?

many people type at 8 because they see them as much more ideal than they actually are. this is why I make sure to note the less appealing aspects of 8 (sadism, impulsivity, antisocial tendencies etc) when describing them.

The idealized bullshit, I'm tired of it. It all sounds so superego-ish.

I've likewise met 1-fixed 6s who mistype at 8 due to the ethos of "stand your ground, look after yourself, trust no one, and struggle hard for your existence". In Wisdom, anyway, the open self-interest and even sadistic qualities aren't especially emphasized. I can see why there would be many mistypes.

(...)

Just to be semi-constructive here, I find that the works of Tom Condon, Helen Palmer, Naranjo, as well as the descriptions on Ocean Moonshine to be very accurate in portraying the core psychology of the types. Other descriptions aren't necessarily as accurate--I saw one site telling me that 6w7s were all Republicans and 6w5s were all Democrats, for instance. This can be confusing for a casual surfer.

I agree Wisdom sucks. Naranjo's much better. I like how it's not sugarcoated crap. Lol about the Republican 6w7's... Anyone wants Naranjo's book, PM me, I have ebook copy of it.

I think this is actually a fair point that no one seems to mention. Eights are a reactive type and express anger openly. They are often less inclined to see threats than a cp6 (or at least, perceive threats differently) and can be less volatile in certain respects--maybe roll more things off their back--but there is also an extremely low threshold for frustration and annoyance.

Very, very true. This also needs to be emphasized more.

 

[Elfboy]

What the fuck do you mean by 8's being self-forgetting? 8's are an Id type, not self-forgetting at all. Quite the opposite. 8's got a lot of self-interest.

exactly
the exception is the Social 8, who can be extremely self forgetting. other than that, any self forgetting (at least as he's using it here) experienced by an 8 would be more from the influence of a strong 9 wing.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

I forgot about this thread.

The final scene in DJ's fall from grace if I recall correctly.

 

[small.wonder]

Give me a few real life examples/anecdotes of what made you feel "met" / "pushed" by someone else?

Gladly, I realize my way of describing how I feel is sometimes lost on others. I've found over time that 8w7 more often gives me the "pushed" feeling, or "challenged" in the sense of them jabbing at me (or whoever). It almost is like I can't get a break from them trying to control me or the situation at hand, saying how things should be, what I need to do etc. My Dad and a close female friend are the 8w7's in my life and I've experienced this with both of them.

I tend to feel more "met" by 8w9 (but have also experienced pushing, or perhaps it's more like refusing to be moved for the 9 wing) which feels like adequate strength and a matter-of-fact sureness of self. I've begun to realize, though, that my feeling met (or matched strength for strength) by 8w9's has as much to do with who I am as with who they are.

I'm not sure if that helps or not.

 

[infinite]

Gladly, I realize my way of describing how I feel is sometimes lost on others. I've found over time that 8w7 more often gives me the "pushed" feeling, or "challenged" in the sense of them jabbing at me (or whoever). It almost is like I can't get a break from them trying to control me or the situation at hand, saying how things should be, what I need to do etc. My Dad and a close female friend are the 8w7's in my life and I've experienced this with both of them.

I tend to feel more "met" by 8w9 (but have also experienced pushing, or perhaps it's more like refusing to be moved for the 9 wing) which feels like adequate strength and a matter-of-fact sureness of self. I've begun to realize, though, that my feeling met (or matched strength for strength) by 8w9's has as much to do with who I am as with who they are.

I'm not sure if that helps or not.

Thanks yes it helps

 

[yeghor]

Type 8s seem to have a fascination for strong predatory animals.

Where's yours [MENTION=21718]infinite[/MENTION]? Where's your avatar jpeg?

 

[Aha]

Type 8s seem to have a fascination for strong predatory animals.

[MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION] Its you! Smoothest troll of all!

Is Grinch predatory enough in your opinion?