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  1. #21
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    He seems like an 8 to me, unless he's bluffing about his alpha male/assertive characteristics. He's about as defensive and reactive as Tony Soprano.
    being defensive is a point against 8, not for it. everyone is defensive on occasion, but gut types in general are not very defensive. more so than head or heart types, gut types view words as less significant unless they have some sort of tangible implications.

    I can't say there's anything overwhelmingly positive about being a phobic 6 besides staying out of trouble and being generally pleasant to be around.
    aside from what you mentioned, phobic 6s are typically very intelligent, perceptive and have a knack for managing risks (my 7w8 friends in the past have done all kinds of stupid shit that could have been avoided with a healthy amount of caution).
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    as I said to DJ, the type of the accuser (or, more accurately, the "suggester") is irrelevant.
    I was noting an observation. I could elaborate on why this is significant to me in my own experience, but for now, suffice to say that most 8s are more interested in their own sphere than in correcting others. Reading between the lines, this, of course, cuts both ways regarding the OP.

    with any type, there will be big giveaways that a person is mistyped. some common traits that give away someone not being an 8 are if they're conflict avoidant (9 fixer) or extremely moralistic (1 fixer). there will be a few exceptions to this obviously (for example, my mom is a 2w1 with an 8w7 fix, and she's pretty fuckin moralistic LOL), but it's often blatantly clear someone is mistyped and I don't think there is anything wrong with bringing it to their attention.
    I agree, and I am not taking sides with regards to the OP.

    I would add, however, that the fix tends to come out through the core type (a 2-fixed 5, for instance, isn't necessarily going to be "intrusive", though they may have a desire to be seen as helpful).

    Your mom sounds like quite a mix, btw!

    personally, I call out people of all types if I think they're mistyped (at the moment, I'm actually conversing with someone mistyped as a 6 and explaining to him why he is an obvious 1 XD). one PerC, I'm far more notorious for overtyping 2s and telling 7s that they're mistyped (like, when people say they're really self forgetting and constantly focused on other people. that's 2/9/p6) than I am witch hunting mistyped 6s
    And your suggestions have always been very helpful in my observation (even if I sometimes disagree, though not with the above). Again, the 6-hunters are not on this forum, and you're not part of the communities I am referencing, anyway.

    as it pertains to 8s, the main problem is twofold
    1) most 8 descriptions are absolutely dreadful and don't capture what it is actually about at all.
    2) most 6 descriptions are terrible and make most 6s sound like Sp/So ISFJs with a 9 fix.
    I strongly agree with this point. Most 6 descriptions I have seen are mediocre-to-crappy, condescendingly written, and/or taken from poor sources. Moreover, online discussion of differences between the two invariably wind up insulting the 6 while extolling the 8, and this is incredibly unfortunate.

    Sixes have acquired the reputation of being scaredy-cat buddy-buddy SJ conformists, leaving the bolder folks of this type unable to see themselves (hence the mistypes). Many prominent 8 descriptions overlap with attributes of cp6, obscuring the truly distinguishing traits of both types.

    I don't think we need to have the perception that 8s are hardened monsters, however; a number of verifiable core 8s I've spoken with IRL seemed to feel they weren't "overt" or "barbaric" enough to be core 8s (and this is especially true of the women of this type).

    this is a good point, but, at the same time, people's personalities come across online more than they think, and it's the "careless" comments that are often the most revealing about a person (of course, I'm not suggesting people go all conspiracy theorist/crazy detective with it and project all manner of intentions onto a comment with multiple valid interpretations. that's just stupid)
    No no. No conspiracy theories. I am actually referencing those who only half-read posts, who fail to pick up on sarcasm, who try to correlate word-usage with type, or who read a verbal ulterior motive where none actually exists. I find this to be absolutely one of the most frustrating aspects of online forums.

    Second, I'm speaking as an image type--there's actually very little I will say "carelessly" (as in, showing my ignorance about myself and the types)--however, there is quite a lot I will say differently about myself depending on the mood I am in. I am careless that way. Also, I imagine most people (regardless of triad) are fairly good at saying the "right" things once they've learned enough about the enneagram.

    As near as I've been able to tell, it's far more revealing how people interact with others on the message board than their literal words. I would hesitate to type someone as 2-fixed, for instance, simply because they said ...oh, and I really like helping people people and make it a rule to do one random act of kindness per day. A lot of reasons someone could feel that way (hence my line about interpretation).

    Anyway, good thoughts.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    I can't say there's anything overwhelmingly positive about being a phobic 6 besides staying out of trouble and being generally pleasant to be around. I'm satisfied with it nonetheless.
    aside from what you mentioned, phobic 6s are typically very intelligent, perceptive and have a knack for managing risks (my 7w8 friends in the past have done all kinds of stupid shit that could have been avoided with a healthy amount of caution).
    Hey guys. I don't see much good about being a 4, either, tbh. It's gotta be a way more useless type than 6 if you want my honest feelings on that.

    That said, I'm enamored with my 6-fix--it's the reason I know how to cover my butt, not make mistakes of oversight that wind up costing me, and see through people's pretensions. It's the reason I'm vested in speaking the truth about what's "really" going on. It's possibly also the reason that people never call me arrogant and standoffish despite me being quiet and withdrawn--I seem "acceptable" somehow (even though I'm not!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    being defensive is a point against 8, not for it. everyone is defensive on occasion, but gut types in general are not very defensive. more so than head or heart types, gut types view words as less significant unless they have some sort of tangible implications.
    Yeah, everyone is defensive sometimes...be careful with that word.

    Type 6 is more about stopping things from going wrong--prevention and protecting what exists rather than trying to increase holdings. Of course, a 6 can also want to influence humanity and the world in profound ways; an 8-fixed 6 can be particularly bent on doing Big and Important things. But, there's often a certain hesitancy to get things off the ground, due in part to "prevention" being part of the 6's psychological structure.

    And thank God. The world would fall apart without this.

  4. #24
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @Sanjuro
    Sixes have acquired the reputation of being scaredy-cat buddy-buddy SJ conformists, leaving the bolder folks of this type unable to see themselves (hence the mistypes). Many prominent 8 descriptions overlap with attributes of cp6, obscuring the truly distinguishing traits of both types.
    on a slightly off topic note, I'm noticing that being a traditionalist actually takes a lot of balls and is seldom as conformist as people think it is.


    I don't think we need to have the perception that 8s are hardened monsters, however; a number of verifiable core 8s I've spoken with IRL seemed to feel they weren't "overt" or "barbaric" enough to be core 8s (and this is especially true of the women of this type).
    while I wouldn't necessarily say "monstrous" (this implies a certain amount of unhealthy action rather than a temperament); I would say "predatory", as the psychology of 8 matches a predator nicely
    - locking onto "prey" (whether it's a person or a goal), which he chases after furiously at the expense of everything else (this is really what "lust" refers to).
    - when they're chasing this prey, they are super fucking intense; however, after word, they spend most of their time chilling out because they perceive little as either a thread or something worth expending energy over.
    - a Darwinistic outlook of life "it's a jungle out there kid"
    - narrow range of emotions (anger/aggression, protectiveness of offspring, feelings of triumph/victory, relaxation....not much else most of the time)
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  5. #25
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Hey guys. I don't see much good about being a 4, either, tbh. It's gotta be a way more useless type than 6 if you want my honest feelings on that.
    agreed. 6s neuroses seem a bit more rational and sometimes useful (some level of fear of the unknown is, for instance, rational. given the short, brutish lifestyles common during our hunter-gather past, the "damage prevention" tendencies of type 6 would have come in handy). on the other hand, 4's neuroses seem like completely self imposed emotional problems that don't have any basis in reality (like, they will go through several intense mood swings with virtually zero outside stimulus. that said, I enjoy the 4 wing of my 3w4 fix. the dark, brooding, quasi-emo tendencies it brings with it spice things up ).

    That said, I'm enamored with my 6-fix--it's the reason I know how to cover my butt, not make mistakes of oversight that wind up costing me, and see through people's pretensions. It's the reason I'm vested in speaking the truth about what's "really" going on. It's possibly also the reason that people never call me arrogant and standoffish despite me being quiet and withdrawn--I seem "acceptable" somehow (even though I'm not!).
    being triple reactive probably compounds this. triple reactive types are very intolerant of BS


    Type 6 is more about stopping things from going wrong--prevention and protecting what exists rather than trying to increase holdings. Of course, a 6 can also want to influence humanity and the world in profound ways; an 8-fixed 6 can be particularly bent on doing Big and Important things. But, there's often a certain hesitancy to get things off the ground, due in part to "prevention" being part of the 6's psychological structure.
    this sounds accurate

    As near as I've been able to tell, it's far more revealing how people interact with others on the message board than their literal words. I would hesitate to type someone as 2-fixed, for instance, simply because they said ...oh, and I really like helping people people and make it a rule to do one random act of kindness per day. A lot of reasons someone could feel that way (hence my line about interpretation).
    I usually spot them more based on their pseudo-humility, obvious need for emotional approval, pro social manipulation, charm, feelings of emotional entitlement and exaggeration of gender based traits. female 2s usually appear seductive and innocent, as if to say "oh, don't mind little ol' me" while male 2s usually display a somewhat macho demeanor (which is not always a bad thing. it's not always aggressive and it's usually combined with a fair amount of charm and boy-ish seduction. done in the right way it can be sexy as fuck )

    Your mom sounds like quite a mix, btw!
    imagine Mrs. Weasley from Harry Potter.
    ...that's basically her
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    agreed. 6s neuroses seem a bit more rational and sometimes useful (some level of fear of the unknown is, for instance, rational. given the short, brutish lifestyles common during our hunter-gather past, the "damage prevention" tendencies of type 6 would have come in handy). on the other hand, 4's neuroses seem like completely self imposed emotional problems that don't have any basis in reality (like, they will go through several intense mood swings with virtually zero outside stimulus. that said, I enjoy the 4 wing of my 3w4 fix. the dark, brooding, quasi-emo tendencies it brings with it spice things up ).
    I'm pretty sure all our neuroses are self-imposed emotional problems that don't have any basis in reality (although, yes, my own thoughts are prone to setting off emotions. Not that I've ever considered this to be a problem--that's not my problem.).

    being triple reactive probably compounds this. triple reactive types are very intolerant of BS
    Yes.

    this sounds accurate
    Helen Palmer.

    I usually spot them more based on their pseudo-humility, obvious need for emotional approval, pro social manipulation, charm, feelings of emotional entitlement and exaggeration of gender based traits. female 2s usually appear seductive and innocent, as if to say "oh, don't mind little ol' me" while male 2s usually display a somewhat macho demeanor (which is not always a bad thing. it's not always aggressive and it's usually combined with a fair amount of charm and boy-ish seduction. done in the right way it can be sexy as fuck )
    What you're doing, though, is going by the overall underlying motivation based on their interactions. Not on the literal wording of their posts. I was protesting more about eliminating this element and going only by what can be tangibly recorded, which, again, is prone to error.

    imagine Mrs. Weasley from Harry Potter.
    ...that's basically her
    Sweet!

  7. #27
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I'm pretty sure all our neuroses are self-imposed emotional problems that don't have any basis in reality (although, yes, my own thoughts are prone to setting off emotions. Not that I've ever considered this to be a problem--that's not my problem.).
    the point I was trying to make (I don't think I worded that well at all) was that some neuroses yield more tangible payoff than others. for example, 3s typically do pretty well for themselves as a result of their drive for success and climbing to the top of the latter.

    Helen Palmer.
    that would explain it lol

    What you're doing, though, is going by the overall underlying motivation based on their interactions. Not on the literal wording of their posts. I was protesting more about eliminating this element and going only by what can be tangibly recorded, which, again, is prone to error.
    I'm also going by thought processes and worldview rather than just motivations, but yeah, I pretty much agree with this.
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  8. #28
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    I mistyped at 8 for a long time. I never thought it was cool. I typed at 5 first, then 3; and people kept suggesting type 8 and type 7. I had more 8 suggestions than almost anyone I've talked to, even actual 8s. I still resisted the typing, mostly because it sickened me and I hated seeing it in myself. I have a strong 8-fix and I exhibited some very 8-like traits because of a trauma-reaction, although when I dig deeper into it, it looks like blaring 4 fear of abandonment which was warded off by predatorial behavior and lust.

    On PerC, I started a poll asking people to vote for my core type - 8, 4, and 7. I was certain of my tritype but not core. I received a bunch of votes for 8 and very very few for the other two options. Then once I realized I was a 4, people didn't believe me at first, but I didn't bother explaining much.. I just told everyone, "You will see it in time" - because I was sure I was correct this time. It was one of those.. "WHAT HAS BEEN SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN " issues and there was no going back.

    But still to this day I have acquaintances on PerC (months after retiring) and close friends who ask me [or others on my behalf], "Are you sure you're not an 8?"

    That being said, when I *first* mistyped at 8, I hit opposition on the forum that was unreal. I ended up quitting PerC for a while and coming here, and @Elfboy was one of the few people who was really awesome to me, and talked it out with me and did not accuse. He did suggest 7 many times, but also saw my reasoning for 8 and was willing to hear me out, respectfully, and really consider all angles. He was one of the first people to come out and "defend me publicly" on PerC when I returned and people were attacking me about my 8 typing. I didn't mind typing suggestions. I never flipped out about others telling me I'm a 3 or a 7 or any other type. But what pissed me off was the assholes attacking me as if typing at 8 was the equivalent of nailing their dead kitten to their door. Some of these people believed for a long time that I was a core 7, and advocated this typing, but when I mistyped at 5 and 3, they did not even bother telling me I might have been wrong. But typing at 8?? Absolutely not okay. Soon enough I found it hilarious, but for a short period of time, my 8 typing was causing me pain and stress and the insults I received were hurtful.

    This particular prejudice was so obnoxious to me that I went back to PerC on a mission - to clean up the 8 forum. I wanted it to be a place where 8s and 8 mistypes could post and discuss their issues just like core types and MISTYPES on every other sub-forum. Why is it that mistyped 6s and 3s can work it out for themselves but mistyped 8s have to answer to the wolves? I enjoyed spouting my knowledge of theory and Te-bombing people on the PerC 8-forum... not about my OWN type or mistype, but about the principle of what they were doing. The principle that a person isn't allowed to mistype at 8 and figure it out for themselves like they can at any other number. Why?

    It's a bad idea to go up against my Te... I thoroughly enjoy arguing and I never get personally offended. I savor the fury with which my enemies hate me and the fervor with which my opponents yearn to destroy me. I feed on their frustration and rage. I'm unaffected by mistype "accusations" (lol) and I know my theory very well. Much to my deep delight, it is quite obviously painstaking for people to try to win an argument against me. And that just flattered me and pushed me to argue more. Over the course of a few months the 8 forum changed and became a place where people could actually post and discuss. A lot of the perc 8s, whether mistyped or correctly typed, thanked me for what I did on the 8 forum and asked me to please hang out there when I typed at 4. And I feel really good about that. : )

    I can't wait to un-retire from that place and sink my Te-nails into the 4 forum. >:]
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  9. #29
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    I've given it some thought and I find myself agreeing with Elfboy and The Great One that Arendee is a 6, likely 6w7. My question however is whether he is actually counterphobic or if that is more of a facade.

    No hard feelings there buddy. I got typed by jontherobot as a 6w7 myself on the other thread and I know exactly how it feels.

  10. #30
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    Elboy just changed his mind and said I'm a 7 in the mistyped members thread. Wow elfboy, you're doing me such a nice favor for my Ego! thank you for sparing me from the harsh agony of being a 6 and instead allowing me to be a more fun and assertive 7! that's so nice of you!

    I'm not going to sit here and debate this. You guys can sit here and listen to them all you want, or you can trust me when I say I know my own type more than they do.

    *shrugs*

    The point is, you will never find a straight answer in these forums about what something actually is, and other people take it upon themselves to ensure that people are something other than what they believe they are. I know I've called out a few infj's and said they were infp's, etc, but I drop it after 2 attempts. I don't go and tell all of my friends and then come back and repeatedly troll and troll and troll forever and ever.

    Yes I am angry i was banned from perc. I liked that place, despite the vast number of mistypes and rampant xenophobia.

    Why does this bug me? because they follow me across the internet. and then when I complain they say "8's dont complain when they are being harassed" LMAO

    are you kidding me? this is absurd.

    Trolls. Jealous and pathetic trolls.

    My question is, why is it so important for them to continue chasing me? Why is this SUCH A PRIORITY that they tell everyone I'm not an 8? Am I interfering with something? Am I in danger of convincing everyone on the internet that 8's are something they actually aren't? Am I doing something wrong that MUST BE STOPPED?

    Sure my ego is big, but am I REALLY typing myself as 8 SOLELY to ensure everyone on the internet that I'm an alpha? PFF... I don't need enneagram to believe that. I own a gym in charge of 10 people managing several hundred and I have 2200 youtube subscribers. I'm a fucking leader. So yes, I am an alpha. Anyone who argues with me is wrong. I empower people. I inspire people. I'm a life coach. this is what I do for a living.

    Why do people materialize out of the woodwork and say "I've been talking to some people on ventrillo, you're not a 8."

    I really want to know what ventrillo group this is that is so insistent on convincing me I'm something other than what I am. And I'm getting angry that my subscribers are getting banned for posting my videos and supporting what I say on other websites.

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