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  1. #41
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I mean, I do want a relationship with someone where we both feel like we can't live without each other but the idea of other people being dependent on me being loving and helpful freaks me out. It puts too much responsibility in my hands.
    Ugh, yeah, that freaks me out too. I don't want my friends to be dependent on my love. But, I often feel that in order to earn their I have to give of myself extensively (which is also not terribly healthy).
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

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  2. #42
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I've spent much more time on PerC than here, and that seems to be the case there at least?

    Male 2s mistype at 8 because of the knight in shining armor complex and that male 2s tend to be very masculine, heroic and "I have no needs" and they feel like 8s because they're tough and strong and vengeful, but realistically heart-driven hot-blooded 2 vengeance is different than cold-blooded 8 vengeance. If a 2 male feels like he has a soft spot for women but he's a tough warrior, he might type at 8 because of his 'feeling like a warrior.' He mght mistype at 8 because he doesn't relate to the lovey dovey softie bullshit that is often in bad 2 descriptions. No real 2 would.

    2s might mistype at 9 thinking they give in to the needs of others. Realistically they are power types giving the other person what they want so that the 2 will have power over them. But they might not see that in themselves, and just look at the behavior of 'giving in.' 9w8s can do this for power to a degree, but it's less power-driven and goal-oriented and more "loss of sense of self" oriented. Less pride, more sloth, to put it simply.

    But both mistypes are possible because of the commonality of 'giving in to the needs of the other' of 2 and 9, and the common prideful heroic badassery of 2 and 8. I've seen female 2s (in my humble opinion) mistype at 8 as well, because they think 2 is weak when realistically it is anything but.

    2 pride is, "I will make that person my slave. He will be eating out of my hand."
    I get that, but I don't think twos would mistype as four all that much. Maybe if they latched on to the 'emotional and romantic' bit and ignored the rest. It's been my experience that twos are way more outwardly emotional, dramatic, and romantic than fours. They're the divas (especially if 2w3).

    EDIT: Actually, yeah. I can totally see how sexual 2w3s would mistype themselves as sexual 4w3s, especially with the Naranjo 'more eight than eight' comment and his emphasis on the 'shameless' aspect of sexual four.

  3. #43
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I get that, but I don't think twos would mistype as four all that much. Maybe if they latched on to the 'emotional and romantic' bit and ignored the rest. It's been my experience that twos are way more outwardly emotional, dramatic, and romantic than fours. They're the divas (especially if 2w3).

    EDIT: Actually, yeah. I can totally see how sexual 2w3s would mistype themselves as sexual 4w3s, especially with the Naranjo 'more eight than eight' comment and his emphasis on the 'shameless' aspect of sexual four.
    I could easily see that mistype in both directions.

    The thing people don't realize when they study enneagram is exactly what you said - 2s are more romantic and outward with their emotions. 4s drama tends to be more internal or in their artwork. There can be just as much drama with either type, but it won't manifest on the surface for a 4 in their 'interactions' the way it does for a 2.

    That's another thing i love about 2s... they cry right in front of me.. express their emotions so fluidly in regular conversation - in a way I could only do when I'm alone at the piano or playing on stage. It's beautiful.

    The biggest problem I've had is that I don't express feelings. I definitely express my needs - unlike a 2 - but not my *vulnerability*. In fact, in my eyes, giving too much, compromising on my needs too much... is dangerous and would lead to being hurt. Showing vulnerability by giving too much to the other person is a set-up for being hurt. It's okay to show vulnerability.. in bed, to cry about music, to cry about another thing in my life. But to start waiting on someone hand and foot? Every time I do someone a favor who I am in love with, I think "he's going to take advantage of me."

    And this is why I look up to the 2s I know, one of them in particular. I could have saved a crucial relationship, if not two of them, if I had given of myself freely and opened up about my feelings, but I was so afraid of rejection that I said nothing.. showed nothing.. kept it to myself.. put it in my music "where it belongs." If I could change one thing about myself, and only one, it would be having the ability to give of myself more freely in romance; to open up, especially to express my feelings in words during a moment.. to tell someone I love them regardless of the outcome.. to open up emotionally outside the context of music and art in general. 2s are so good at this. I can tell friends stories about exes, or talk about emotional things from the past, but when the emotion is happening *right now* I close off. I can be in love with someone in secret for years.. and pine away.. and write songs.. and then next thing I know they're taken or married or living far away and I lost my chance. A 2 would never do this.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  4. #44
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    On the topic of 4s mistyping at 2 I heavily considered the typing for myself - I related in many ways. Here are some-

    - I have enough pride to kill an army of lions and no I will not swallow it
    - I can be ferocious, although admittedly, usually in my head, in my songs, in my stories, on the internet... or in bed. I am also ferociously self-righteous in fights with family and boyfriends, though no one else sees this side of me. As a band leader I'm more tough-driving than ferocious, though the line has been crossed a couple times.
    - I relate to type 8 enough that I mistyped at 8 for many months, and since I related to both 4 and 8, 2 was a heavy consideration at one point.
    - I can be pretty expressive [in situations where I'm not vulnerable]
    - Naranjo describes a type 7 father doting on his 2... lol, thats me and my father ; ) except the reactions he describes for 2 weren't that similar to mine.
    - When I was very unhealthy I viewed romance as a power-game. The terminology even in my own diary was "the power shift" when he falls for me, at which point I get bored and move on, etc. My friends called me 'vampire.' To be clear I was only like this for a few years after a trauma and it was a period of heavy drug use. And most of my time was spent expressing my rage and pain through nude photos and music and other art and doing substance-induced experiments on my mind in isolation.

    To make a few differentiations, one reason I related to 8 was not that I didn't HAVE feelings but more that I'd never let someone win by KNOWING I had feelings. Also, that I never collapse - nobody can get a reaction out of me unless I let them. This is also the nature of my pride: I am fine on my own, I'd rather suffer silently and wait for HIM to confess his feelings and if he doesn't then I guess I'll just write more songs! I will not give in and be vulnerable! And in the context of a relationship, my pride isn't "I gave him so much" but rather, "I didn't give in - I stayed true to myself."

    But I think @brainheart is right because as a 4w3 I do feel many things in common with 2, particularly 2w3. And I know the same works in reverse with 2w3s as well, though they would probably describe this better than I would

    I would be very curious if 2s even relate to my list of 2-like traits I see in myself, and how.. lol! Obviously I have no conception of 2 being some lovey-dovey push over.. My concept of 2 is more like this:

    http://www.wendyappel.com/myth-busti...eople-pleaser/
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  5. #45
    Parody Parrot meowington's Avatar
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    @Showbread : I'm a 2 2

    But a few years ago, I had 6 for enneagram result. So basically, I'm helping people by warning them for incomming doom every two steps :p Watch out : DOOM ! Over there : DOOM ! Behind you : DOOM ! ...

  6. #46
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miauwington View Post
    @Showbread : I'm a 2 2

    But a few years ago, I had 6 for enneagram result. So basically, I'm helping people by warning them for incomming doom every two steps :p Watch out : DOOM ! Over there : DOOM ! Behind you : DOOM ! ...
    I took one random online test that told me I was a 6 also! I have a 6 roommate and we have similar attitudes and perspectives on a lot of things. But, I'm definitely a 2. People pleasing ftw.
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

    3w2 6w7 1w2
    *Gryffindor*


  7. #47
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    I'm a male with a 2 in my tritype and it might be my core type, I'm not for sure.

    I think my 2 fix is a form of compensation for my Asperger's, as a small child I was always wanting to do things to help people, hoping that creating an image of being helpful and giving would make up for my social awkwardness and make people appreciate me.
    Autistic INFP


  8. #48
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    Why would anyone be a 2 or 3 when you can be a 4?
    Some of us were raised right and think deluding yourself thinking that you are so awesomely special and unique compared to us plebs is rather narcissistic?
    Autistic INFP


  9. #49
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorS View Post
    Some of us were raised right and think deluding yourself thinking that you are so awesomely special and unique compared to us plebs is rather narcissistic?

  10. #50
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorS View Post
    Some of us were raised right and think deluding yourself thinking that you are so awesomely special and unique compared to us plebs is rather narcissistic?
    We're all awesomely special. 4's just naturally like to identify with it. Lighten up, man... you star you.


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