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  1. #71
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    It's a nice quote which should be easy to relate to, but right now it could not resonate less with me.

    Also, that font is pretty painful. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf
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  2. #72
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    I love this thread and the people in it.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I...am at a loss for how to respond. I know that I often put myself ahead of others and tell myself it was selfless and good [I get this if I journal my thoughts], I know that I have a lot of work ahead to become a travelling nurse practitioneer, and it may never happen [I sometimes forget and assume I will get it], and I cry when I am alone. I cried this morning because I realized how selfish and disloyal I can be at times. I know this is far from the lesson you intended, but it is what I got.

    Hey MQ,

    Are you able to untag your entire friends list?
    لا تستطيع كسر المكسور

  4. #74
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Just occured to me that someone thought I wrote what was in red. NOPE I'm not even close to that good.

    They're song lyrics from Tool, song: Flood

    Here it is with lyrics, if you're interested. The song starts at 4:25, everything before that is a Ritual Summoning (it's pretty gnarly though). And at 7:00, I always get chills down my spine.

    Highly recommend headphones.

    Anyway, if you got time to waste:


    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.
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  5. #75
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    I actually like their sexual 7 description in comparison to Naranjo's. Naranjo makes every sexual 7 look like some time of Ariel from Little Mermaid, when in fact, I know this isn't true. I do believe that many Sx/sp 7's are like this, but I don't know of many sx/so 7's that are like this.

  6. #76
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Hey MQ,

    Are you able to untag your entire friends list?
    Won't let me.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
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  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Won't let me.
    I'm in the middle of putting together a response for you while running around... I should have something to you by later tonight.

    I've been thinking of you diploma holder...
    لا تستطيع كسر المكسور

  8. #78
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I'm in the middle of putting together a response for you while running around... I should have something to you by later tonight.

    I've been thinking of you diploma holder...
    I was thinking of you, too. I will start nursing school, soon. I hope I can break my nail biting habit, integrate to healthy 5, and balance with my pharmacy job.

    It seems like I'd see more cool stuff with nursing and if I travel nurse, I could fulfill at least one of my bucket-list points--seeing the world for all of its splendor.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

  9. #79
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    whoops...I should say that in spite of having exchanged posts...I didn't alter/update this message I was writing for that.
    --------------

    Super excited for your day MQ. I hope you are making it memorable.

    As for what's being discussed here...this can wait. I'd like you to untag your friends list though if you would as I wanted this thread to be for 7s...and people wanting to understand 7ness. It wouldn't feel right to me to have posts in this thread from people that feel obligated to respond on some level because they were tagged. This is a tag free zone But the rest of this can wait until you are ready to think. I'm not giving-up on explaining this though in spite of you working very hard not to understand it haha. I'll explain it in a hundred different ways if I must starting with...


    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I...am at a loss for how to respond. I know that I often put myself ahead of others and tell myself it was selfless and good [I get this if I journal my thoughts], I know that I have a lot of work ahead to become a travelling nurse practitioneer, and it may never happen [I sometimes forget and assume I will get it], and I cry when I am alone. I cried this morning because I realized how selfish and disloyal I can be at times. I know this is far from the lesson you intended, but it is what I got.

    ^^I'm wondering what your understanding of e7 Narcissism is when I read the above. Or just Narcissism in general. I'm assuming you have heard of the god Narcissus from the Greek myth...




    ...the god that became a bit overly-fascinated with his own reflection in a pond aka "the first known tale highlighting a key feature of the enneagram 7s character." I want you to make note here of the fact I used the word 'fascinated' above as opposed to 'love'...as in he fell in love with his own reflection. <-No. Another word I've seen used is 'fixated.'

    I'm making this very relevant distinction because people tend to incorrectly understand the condition/trait of narcissism as an exaggerated sense of self-love (ego, conceit, being without modesty). <-But this is merely one of the ways the fixation manifests. Now, this well documented and so I can only guess as to the reasons why people fail to recognize narcissism in all its forms...but the Narcissist can just as likely be the individual that exaggerates their flaws. All the Narcissist is... is an individual that has an exaggerated sense of importance...an exaggerated sense of their influence on people or situations whether the individual perceives that importance to be good or bad.

    Now stay with me MQ...because I know you are smart enough to get this. I'm going to start connecting some dots here for you...

    Narcissism...the exaggerated sense of self-importance...is associated with entitlement. Entitlement is the feeling you have a right to something...correct? So if you purchased a grape snowcone...but the snowcone salesperson mistakenly gave you a lime snowcone instead... you would in those moments feel you had a *right* to either get your money back or have them remake what you had officially ordered. Even if you shrug your shoulders saying "no big, I like lime, I'll just eat this one"... you would still feel you had *grounds* to get what you had originally ordered served to you. That's an easily recognized instance of entitlement: I gave you my hard earned money with an expectation that I was to receive a grape snowcone in exchange. I am entitled to a grape snowcone.

    Now, would you ever think to go up to a snowcone salesperson, ask for a grape snowcone and expect to receive one without paying for it? I'm not talking about stealing. I'm talking about asking and expecting to receive a snowcone...no questions asked...no exchange of goods or services.... You just ask and expect to receive one on the basis of being Magic Qwan. That's it. Would you ever have an expectation of that nature?

    Because Narcissists exaggerate their sense of importance... they very often feel entitled to things without having done anything of true value to warrant receiving them. They feel they deserve things that the majority of other people do not. They don't recognize that their thinking is so very different from everyone else's because they are fixated on themselves...they can't see outside of themselves...but it is. Narcissists believe they are entitled to certain things just because they *exist* <-This is exactly what the unhealthy e7 believes.

    Still with me?

    I'm starting to think one of the worst things to have happen to a young e7 child...especially if that child is an iNtuitive...is to expose them to religion and fairytales over and over...but without an adult *voice of reason* to ground all of that *magic* in reality for them. johnnyyukon makes mention of this same thing in his eloquent post. Because the young e7 is going to buy it hook, line and sinker. The young e7...that is already exaggerating their own significance/influence...is not in a position to remain skeptical...or recognize that a lot of this stuff is meant as symbolism...Oh no. All this stuff ends up being taken as literal by the young, unattended e7 because it's in-line with what they already optimistically suspect about the world. Everyone has a fairytale comin to them...and all they have to do is kick-back and enjoy the ride. The magical-thinking is reinforced/confirmed/validated/set. I am good. I am special. And as a sole consequence of this alone...good and special things will automatically happen to me.

    What happens though to an e7 with an 'already set' exaggerated sense of significance and inclination towards magical-thinking when not enough good is happening to them? Again, these are people that believe good is on its way...because they are good. So what happens when not enough of their entitled expectations are being met...or worse...what happens if a series of bad things happen? Well, then the doubt starts to creep in. Fairytales though...the hero is always tested right? So for a while the optimism and magical-thinking continues. But what if then all that occurs is more and more *bad*?

    If not enough good comes to the e7...if not enough of their entitled expectations are randomly being met so that they are capable of maintaining the constant optimism... one of two things is going to occur to this delusional thinker. Some of these e7s are going to push the external world for experience. In what becomes a state of hyper-optimism...they are going to push up against the external world to get it to cough-up the entitlement...their reward. And a smaller number of these e7s magically morph into e4s and e5s start to become a bit hysterical/painfully confused about the world...and turn inward. They believe in fairytales...they believe something good was supposed to happen...so why hasn't it? The e7 Narcissism...the inflated sense of significance now turns into an exaggerated sense of what may be or is wrong with them. The only significant person that good things will not happen to is someone that is bad...or has been forsaken in some terrible way...or both. <-Here is where you have arrived.

    And I've seen you announce your arrival to this place every time you speak poorly about yourself. Every time you exaggerate your role in some sort of personal interaction (you make yourself responsible for someone else's poor behavior or treatment of you.) You tell of how your sense of entitlement has been forsaken every time you cry-out that the world is a terrible place...a horrible, meaningless place... And so I'm asking you now...I'm telling you now that you need to become sober so you can see things for how and what they really are.



    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    My future is presenting me with a test.
    To pass is happiness, to fail is pain.
    My hope is things will turn out for the best.
    Lets just hope I remain sane.

    ^^What in the hell is this? This sonnet you've written...? Are you truly unable to see the drama you've packed into these few words? Let me rewrite this sonnet for you from the perspective of a sober, detached, reasonable thinker.

    As a sober individual...no longer *high* on magical-thinking...
    it has now become clear to me that my future isn't testing me in any way... Why? Well, because *my future* doesn't have that kind of power for one... But I've also come to the realization that if I'm going to claim to be an atheist...even deciding to advertise it in my signature for all forumers at TypoC to see... it just makes sense that I should also then let-go of all notions of supernatural intervention. In other words, why would an atheist believe they were being *tested* in any way...amiright?

    I now see myself as a living human being just experiencing life...just like every other human being on the planet. As a sober person no longer fixated on myself...it has become clear that I am just like everyone else. The things that challenge me...are no different...no more or less in number than anyone else. I now understand that I suffer no more or less than anybody else. And there's no 'pass' or 'fail' either I've come to see. It's just life. See, before I became sober...when I used to exaggerate my significance...I would assign value to things like I was somehow important enough to do that.

    Today I just do the best I can to achieve what I would like for myself...to shape my life in a way that I suspect will make me happy. I don't increase my suffering by believing things like "if A happens" I have passed and will be happy...and "if B happens" I have failed and will now be in pain. What I do now is work towards my goals...and make the very best of circumstances after they unfold. I no longer passively hope for the things I believe I'm entitled to to just happen. I am no longer crippled by a delusional value system. I live in the present. I live without expectations. I live in reality. I work with what I have. I make the best of what I have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    She says ''2 is 2'' and ''red is red'' and ''white is white''

    Is she implying that reality should be seen for what it is, nothing more?

    Bingo.


    The song is awkward sounding which I really like... for this concept I am/was trying to get you to understand.
    The singer is sober. She's saying...

    All my life I've wanted to fly but I don't have the wings and I wonder why.

    What she's not saying is...

    All my life I've wanted to fly... And unfortunately, because I'm a delusional Narcissist...completely unwilling to see reality for what it is and make the best of it... I'm assigning incredible value to *flying.* I believe that because I want to fly...I'm entitled to flying. The only way I somehow know ahead of time that I will be happy and life will have meaning is if I can be given the power to grow wings and fly. No flying...no happiness and no meaning.


    What she's not saying is...

    2 is 'bad' and red is 'good' ..................so that from now on every time '2' appears...there's a big panic and life loses its meaning.

    She's saying '2 is just 2'
    لا تستطيع كسر المكسور

  10. #80
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    whoops...I should say that in spite of having exchanged posts...I didn't alter/update this message I was writing for that.
    --------------

    Super excited for your day MQ. I hope you are making it memorable.

    As for what's being discussed here...this can wait. I'd like you to untag your friends list though if you would as I wanted this thread to be for 7s...and people wanting to understand 7ness. It wouldn't feel right to me to have posts in this thread from people that feel obligated to respond on some level because they were tagged. This is a tag free zone But the rest of this can wait until you are ready to think. I'm not giving-up on explaining this though in spite of you working very hard not to understand it haha. I'll explain it in a hundred different ways if I must starting with...





    ^^I'm wondering what your understanding of e7 Narcissism is when I read the above. Or just Narcissism in general. I'm assuming you have heard of the god Narcissus from the Greek myth...




    ...the god that became a bit overly-fascinated with his own reflection in a pond aka "the first known tale highlighting a key feature of the enneagram 7s character." I want you to make note here of the fact I used the word 'fascinated' above as opposed to 'love'...as in he fell in love with his own reflection. <-No. Another word I've seen used is 'fixated.'

    I'm making this very relevant distinction because people tend to incorrectly understand the condition/trait of narcissism as an exaggerated sense of self-love (ego, conceit, being without modesty). <-But this is merely one of the ways the fixation manifests. Now, this well documented and so I can only guess as to the reasons why people fail to recognize narcissism in all its forms...but the Narcissist can just as likely be the individual that exaggerates their flaws. All the Narcissist is... is an individual that has an exaggerated sense of importance...an exaggerated sense of their influence on people or situations whether the individual perceives that importance to be good or bad.

    Now stay with me MQ...because I know you are smart enough to get this. I'm going to start connecting some dots here for you...

    Narcissism...the exaggerated sense of self-importance...is associated with entitlement. Entitlement is the feeling you have a right to something...correct? So if you purchased a grape snowcone...but the snowcone salesperson mistakenly gave you a lime snowcone instead... you would in those moments feel you had a *right* to either get your money back or have them remake what you had officially ordered. Even if you shrug your shoulders saying "no big, I like lime, I'll just eat this one"... you would still feel you had *grounds* to get what you had originally ordered served to you. That's an easily recognized instance of entitlement: I gave you my hard earned money with an expectation that I was to receive a grape snowcone in exchange. I am entitled to a grape snowcone.

    Now, would you ever think to go up to a snowcone salesperson, ask for a grape snowcone and expect to receive one without paying for it? I'm not talking about stealing. I'm talking about asking and expecting to receive a snowcone...no questions asked...no exchange of goods or services.... You just ask and expect to receive one on the basis of being Magic Qwan. That's it. Would you ever have an expectation of that nature?

    Because Narcissists exaggerate their sense of importance... they very often feel entitled to things without having done anything of true value to warrant receiving them. They feel they deserve things that the majority of other people do not. They don't recognize that their thinking is so very different from everyone else's because they are fixated on themselves...they can't see outside of themselves...but it is. Narcissists believe they are entitled to certain things just because they *exist* <-This is exactly what the unhealthy e7 believes.

    Still with me?

    I'm starting to think one of the worst things to have happen to a young e7 child...especially if that child is an iNtuitive...is to expose them to religion and fairytales over and over...but without an adult *voice of reason* to ground all of that *magic* in reality for them. johnnyyukon makes mention of this same thing in his eloquent post. Because the young e7 is going to buy it hook, line and sinker. The young e7...that is already exaggerating their own significance/influence...is not in a position to remain skeptical...or recognize that a lot of this stuff is meant as symbolism...Oh no. All this stuff ends up being taken as literal by the young, unattended e7 because it's in-line with what they already optimistically suspect about the world. Everyone has a fairytale comin to them...and all they have to do is kick-back and enjoy the ride. The magical-thinking is reinforced/confirmed/validated/set. I am good. I am special. And as a sole consequence of this alone...good and special things will automatically happen to me.

    What happens though to an e7 with an 'already set' exaggerated sense of significance and inclination towards magical-thinking when not enough good is happening to them? Again, these are people that believe good is on its way...because they are good. So what happens when not enough of their entitled expectations are being met...or worse...what happens if a series of bad things happen? Well, then the doubt starts to creep in. Fairytales though...the hero is always tested right? So for a while the optimism and magical-thinking continues. But what if then all that occurs is more and more *bad*?

    If not enough good comes to the e7...if not enough of their entitled expectations are randomly being met so that they are capable of maintaining the constant optimism... one of two things is going to occur to this delusional thinker. Some of these e7s are going to push the external world for experience. In what becomes a state of hyper-optimism...they are going to push up against the external world to get it to cough-up the entitlement...their reward. And a smaller number of these e7s magically morph into e4s and e5s start to become a bit hysterical/painfully confused about the world...and turn inward. They believe in fairytales...they believe something good was supposed to happen...so why hasn't it? The e7 Narcissism...the inflated sense of significance now turns into an exaggerated sense of what may be or is wrong with them. The only significant person that good things will not happen to is someone that is bad...or has been forsaken in some terrible way...or both. <-Here is where you have arrived.

    And I've seen you announce your arrival to this place every time you speak poorly about yourself. Every time you exaggerate your role in some sort of personal interaction (you make yourself responsible for someone else's poor behavior or treatment of you.) You tell of how your sense of entitlement has been forsaken every time you cry-out that the world is a terrible place...a horrible, meaningless place... And so I'm asking you now...I'm telling you now that you need to become sober so you can see things for how and what they really are.






    ^^What in the hell is this? This sonnet you've written...? Are you truly unable to see the drama you've packed into these few words? Let me rewrite this sonnet for you from the perspective of a sober, detached, reasonable thinker.

    As a sober individual...no longer *high* on magical-thinking...
    it has now become clear to me that my future isn't testing me in any way... Why? Well, because *my future* doesn't have that kind of power for one... But I've also come to the realization that if I'm going to claim to be an atheist...even deciding to advertise it in my signature for all forumers at TypoC to see... it just makes sense that I should also then let-go of all notions of supernatural intervention. In other words, why would an atheist believe they were being *tested* in any way...amiright?

    I now see myself as a living human being just experiencing life...just like every other human being on the planet. As a sober person no longer fixated on myself...it has become clear that I am just like everyone else. The things that challenge me...are no different...no more or less in number than anyone else. I now understand that I suffer no more or less than anybody else. And there's no 'pass' or 'fail' either I've come to see. It's just life. See, before I became sober...when I used to exaggerate my significance...I would assign value to things like I was somehow important enough to do that.

    Today I just do the best I can to achieve what I would like for myself...to shape my life in a way that I suspect will make me happy. I don't increase my suffering by believing things like "if A happens" I have passed and will be happy...and "if B happens" I have failed and will now be in pain. What I do now is work towards my goals...and make the very best of circumstances after they unfold. I no longer passively hope for the things I believe I'm entitled to to just happen. I am no longer crippled by a delusional value system. I live in the present. I live without expectations. I live in reality. I work with what I have. I make the best of what I have.





    Bingo.


    The song is awkward sounding which I really like... for this concept I am/was trying to get you to understand.
    The singer is sober. She's saying...

    All my life I've wanted to fly but I don't have the wings and I wonder why.

    What she's not saying is...

    All my life I've wanted to fly... And unfortunately, because I'm a delusional Narcissist...completely unwilling to see reality for what it is and make the best of it... I'm assigning incredible value to *flying.* I believe that because I want to fly...I'm entitled to flying. The only way I somehow know ahead of time that I will be happy and life will have meaning is if I can be given the power to grow wings and fly. No flying...no happiness and no meaning.


    What she's not saying is...

    2 is 'bad' and red is 'good' ..................so that from now on every time '2' appears...there's a big panic and life loses its meaning.

    She's saying '2 is just 2'
    Thank you, @Starry , narcissism makes sense now. When I spoke of ''test'' I wasn't speaking of a supernatural test, but rather the ''test'' of reaching my many goals without a safety-net to catch me if I fall. I know one bad choice could land me in the gutter somewhere or in the grave. I live in the Bible Belt, where I have to put up with fairy-tales on a daily basis and on every street corner. Otherwise, you were very effective at showing me how I am an unhealthy e7 with defense mechanisms. The question now is how to sober up and see reality as it really is and be sure I'm not distorting it. There are some expiriences I feel cheated out of that I feel I should have gotten but the Jehovah's Wittnesses took from me, and I am just looking for my niche in society. One thing is for certain, the current governing body of the Jehovah's Witnesses is an irredeemably evil monster who takes and takes from society and never gives back and, quite frankly, deserves punishment for their crimes against humanity.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

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