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Thread: The Wisdom of the Enneagram Seven

  1. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    I read the article. It doesnt do a good job distinguishing between the techniques. It only distinguishes between the experience. I quickly tried to read some articles on zen/zazen. The way i see it is zazen observes the mind without labelling the feelings but whe meditating. Zen probably teaches one to practice while going about your daily life. By practicing zazen one would begin to realize anitta (impermanence) aspect whereas vipassna would help one realize anatma (no soul).

    I need to k ow how a zen practiotioner watches one's feelings as he goes about his life? (While in a non medotative posture.) If you know please let me know.
    Well, I'm still very new to zen, but my teacher said he sometimes has moments of awakening while washing the dishes and he has more moments of mindfulness throughout the day.
    (I really should be doing an online midterm right now, but I have a million tabs open and am flipping through them rapidly at the moment.)
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
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  2. #492
    Senior Member Array riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post
    Well, I'm still very new to zen, but my teacher said he sometimes has moments of awakening while washing the dishes and he has more moments of mindfulness throughout the day.
    (I really should be doing an online midterm right now, but I have a million tabs open and am flipping through them rapidly at the moment.)
    Yes just reply to me once that is done.

    Meanwhile i slightly changed my practice to feel a bit of zazen. I will experiment on this for a while.

    What i am doing now is only kayanupassama (observing body). Whenever i walk, talk eat, watxh etc i would remind myself from time to time what i am doing 'i am walking' etc. This way i suddenly become aware of/mindful what is going inside my head (emotions/thoughts) and bodily sensation. I am not going to note them during this experiment phase. I would just be observing them for a split second or two. If i become good at this i might be able to watch these feelings rise and fall for longer periods of time. Righht now the observations last for only a split second or two and it's not easy since i do this while i move about.

    I would only note them when i am feeling extremely negative emotions overwhelmingly.

    I think this would give me a touch of anitta/impermanence. Perhaps this is what your zen teacher was doing while washing dishes.

    And maybe if i do it long enough i would begin to enjoy watching my feelings and watching them disappear rather than being addicted to reacting to them in my mind or body. That's the plan.

    Again, please only do what he teaches you.
    .
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  3. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Yes just reply to me once that is done.

    Meanwhile i slightly changed my practice to feel a bit of zazen. I will experiment on this for a while.

    What i am doing now is only kayanupassama (observing body). Whenever i walk, talk eat, watxh etc i would remind myself from time to time what i am doing 'i am walking' etc. This way i suddenly become aware of/mindful what is going inside my head (emotions/thoughts) and bodily sensation. I am not going to note them during this experiment phase. I would just be observing them for a split second or two. If i become good at this i might be able to watch these feelings rise and fall for longer periods of time. Righht now the observations last for only a split second or two and it's not easy since i do this while i move about.

    I would only note them when i am feeling extremely negative emotions overwhelmingly.

    I think this would give me a touch of anitta/impermanence. Perhaps this is what your zen teacher was doing while washing dishes.

    And maybe if i do it long enough i would begin to enjoy watching my feelings and watching them disappear rather than being addicted to reacting to them in my mind or body. That's the plan.

    Again, please only do what he teaches you.
    Likewise, I am intrigued by your Vipassana and its idea of "no self". From what I read, Vipassana is more of the original flavor of buddhist meditation, whereas Zen has Taoist influences mixed in. I wonder if @Starry is following the same flavor of Zen, since my teacher said on saturday that one should not close their eyes while meditating.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

  4. #494
    Senior Member Array riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post
    Likewise, I am intrigued by your Vipassana and its idea of "no self". From what I read, Vipassana is more of the original flavor of buddhist meditation, whereas Zen has Taoist influences mixed in. I wonder if @Starry is following the same flavor of Zen, since my teacher said on saturday that one should not close their eyes while meditating.
    When you practice vipassana/satti you've begin to realize there is no self/anatma which translates to no soul (this one aspect of the three marks of existence). Some say this is a gradual realization and some say it is a sudden realization. By theory you make sense out of it but by practice alone you'd get it.

    For example if you manage to master your feelings rise and fall without becoming attached or repulsed by it (non-judgemental observation) you'll begin to realize the anicca aspect (which means impermanance) of your feelings (thoughts, emotions, etc). You realize they are temporary, so might begin to enjoy watching them rise amd fall rather than craving or feeling repulsed towards them. When this happens naturaly you've begun to natirally realize impermanence as ipposed to theoretical knowledge.

    Now i am going ro sound damm preachy (sorry) - when you pracrice vipassana/zazen you'll begin to realize 'no self' (anatma). It's not something you have to force yourself to believe IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN.
    .
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  5. #495
    The Dark Lord Array The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    When you practice vipassana/satti you've begin to realize there is no self/anatma which translates to no soul (this one aspect of the three marks of existence). Some say this is a gradual realization and some say it is a sudden realization. By theory you make sense out of it but by practice alone you'd get it.

    For example if you manage to master your feelings rise and fall without becoming attached or repulsed by it (non-judgemental observation) you'll begin to realize the anicca aspect (which means impermanance) of your feelings (thoughts, emotions, etc). You realize they are temporary, so might begin to enjoy watching them rise amd fall rather than craving or feeling repulsed towards them. When this happens naturaly you've begun to natirally realize impermanence as ipposed to theoretical knowledge.

    Now i am going ro sound damm preachy (sorry) - when you pracrice vipassana/zazen you'll begin to realize 'no self' (anatma). It's not something you have to force yourself to believe IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN.
    Well, preachy is a relative term. I'm surrounded by deeply conservative fundementalist evangelical Christians, and overseas, Islamist will cut off people's heads. One thing like about buddhism, daoism, and unitarian universalism is that none of these have many radical sects. It is really hard to pervert those paths into something ugly and, for the most part, you can accept the glories revealed to us by modern science without being shamed or told you are not a true practicioner. The Abrahamic Religions get under my skin when I encounter them, but I encounter them so often that I learned its best to keep my irritation to myself. Despite some claims by monks regarding rebirth, I found these eastern paths free of a lot of the woo that plagues the Abrahamic faiths, and I've grown quite an affinity for them. One good thing about the Buddhist community being so sparse here is that you really have to work to uncover new information. That said, I may need to check out a Zen monastary in Japan one day...
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

  6. #496
    The Dark Lord Array The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    @riva
    did I say something wrong?
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    and
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

  7. #497
    Senior Member Array riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post
    @riva
    did I say something wrong?
    Nooo man. I didnt get a chance to reply to you. Haha. Will do when i get my hands on a pc .
    .
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  8. #498
    Senior Member Array riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post
    Well, preachy is a relative term. I'm surrounded by deeply conservative fundementalist evangelical Christians, and overseas, Islamist will cut off people's heads. One thing like about buddhism, daoism, and unitarian universalism is that none of these have many radical sects. It is really hard to pervert those paths into something ugly and, for the most part, you can accept the glories revealed to us by modern science without being shamed or told you are not a true practicioner. The Abrahamic Religions get under my skin when I encounter them, but I encounter them so often that I learned its best to keep my irritation to myself. Despite some claims by monks regarding rebirth, I found these eastern paths free of a lot of the woo that plagues the Abrahamic faiths, and I've grown quite an affinity for them. One good thing about the Buddhist community being so sparse here is that you really have to work to uncover new information. That said, I may need to check out a Zen monastary in Japan one day...
    That's true. As a person who has grown up around the concept of karma - which basicaly says you actions have consequences in this life or next and your thoughts behind these actions will amplify these conseqiences, therefore do good things to have a good afterlife and don't hurt others to not suffer - the god in abrahamic religions sound chidlike

    And y
    .
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  9. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    That's true. As a person who has grown up around the concept of karma - which basicaly says you actions have consequences in this life or next and your thoughts behind these actions will amplify these conseqiences, therefore do good things to have a good afterlife and don't hurt others to not suffer - the god in abrahamic religions sound chidlike

    And y
    I wanted to check out a zen monastary one day because even though I understand the basics, I want to be immersed at least once in my life.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

  10. #500
    The Dark Lord Array The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    That's true. As a person who has grown up around the concept of karma - which basicaly says you actions have consequences in this life or next and your thoughts behind these actions will amplify these conseqiences, therefore do good things to have a good afterlife and don't hurt others to not suffer - the god in abrahamic religions sound chidlike

    And y
    Also, you said you grew up familiar with Karma. I take it you are not from the US? It is already rare to see somebody my age familiar with it. People who are older than me are usually foreign born.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

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