User Tag List

First 39474849505159 Last

Results 481 to 490 of 718

  1. #481
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    estp
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,035

    Default

    Woah starry and spectre started practicing zen?

    I've never done zen but have beem doing sattipattana/vipassana for quite sometime. The english name for this is mindfullness. I like satti because i never have to sit down and separate time to meditate. You do it as you are engaged in your activities.

    Anyway do you know (spec, starry) the diffences between these two practices? Do you think zen is better.

    I would assume doing cittanupassana (observing and noting your emotions/feelings/thoughts) should be easy for a FP.
    .
    Likes The Wailing Specter, Starry liked this post

  2. #482
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/so
    Socionics
    ENFP Ne
    Posts
    3,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Woah starry and spectre started practicing zen?

    I've never done zen but have beem doing sattipattana/vipassana for quite sometime. The english name for this is mindfullness. I like satti because i never have to sit down and separate time to meditate. You do it as you are engaged in your activities.

    Anyway do you know (spec, starry) the diffences between these two practices? Do you think zen is better.

    I would assume doing cittanupassana (observing and noting your emotions/feelings/thoughts should be easy for a FP.
    I am only on day 2 of practicing zen...technically day 3 since it is after midnight and I'm hyper for some reason.
    I cannot say I know the differences between those two practices, though, yes, I tend to notice my emotions.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

  3. #483
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    estp
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,035

    Default

    I got motivated to do mindfullness (at this point i dont know the difference between it and zen) after reading the below article.

    Writing Down Feelings Really Does Make Us Feel Better, Study Says

    Basically it tells you to acknowledge the emotion or sensation one is experiencing at the present moment will reduce the hormonal reactions or mental/brain sway it would have on you. This is basic cittanpassana and vedanupassana. But after realizing there is scientifix backing i got motivated to try it.

    I realy wanna know what starry is upto with this stuff . You know your feedback on you feelings as to what you were experiencing when observing your feeligs .

    FEELER

    I didnt read the thread in full.
    .
    Likes The Wailing Specter, Starry liked this post

  4. #484
    Senior Member senza tema's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Woah starry and spectre started practicing zen?

    I've never done zen but have beem doing sattipattana/vipassana for quite sometime. The english name for this is mindfullness. I like satti because i never have to sit down and separate time to meditate. You do it as you are engaged in your activities.

    Anyway do you know (spec, starry) the diffences between these two practices? Do you think zen is better.

    I would assume doing cittanupassana (observing and noting your emotions/feelings/thoughts) should be easy for a FP.
    Surprisingly no. I associate taking time out to do that kind of thing with boredom.

  5. #485
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/so
    Socionics
    ENFP Ne
    Posts
    3,218

    Default

    Well, when I meditate in less than ideal conditions (lots of distractions and/or waiting in my car for some reason, eg. to not be too early for work) I tend to have these thoughts:

    1. This is bogus. I should have experienced enlightenment by now.
    2. This is great! I get the benefits of religion without the baggage!
    3. I'm hungry.
    4. I am sooooooo bored right now.
    5. This will be a great way to mess with my mom. She'll shit a brick when she sees I found a better "religion" than her death cult.
    6. Poor mom, she would really benefit from zazen. She is going to have a stroke if she doesn't do something for her stress.
    7. I got this mastered...I haven't had a thought in minutes. Well, that was one. That was another. That was another. That was another...
    8. This is great and all, but maybe I should research a bit more online. This has a fascinating history.
    9. Nothing this simple can possibly help a mind like mine.
    10. I'm not supposed to find something that works, I'm unworthy!
    11. Nice way to violate the rules of your new practice by killing that lizard. Why did you even do it?
    12. I'm going to be one of those monks that can control every aspect of their physiology. That's so cool!
    13. Will this really work?
    14. Reincarnation is not taught in Buddhism. Rather, a doctrine of rebirth is widely accepted, as there is no permanent soul. I wonder why people mix that up?
    15. I really need to get one of those meditation cushions.
    16. I wonder if I was a dog in a past life.
    17. Bah, there is no evidence of reincarnation. Just stick to mindfulness and keep it simple.

    It almost seems like my meditation is stormier the more distractions there are around me. I believe (or disbelieve) the above thought bubbles to varying degrees, but they bubble up when I meditate, whether or not conditions are ideal. Things are quietest in my room when I am meditating alone. I am thinking of starting a mediation journal. Some of these thoughts that pop up when I take the time to slow down and listen to the background chatter surprise me.

    Well, one way Buddhism trumps Abrahamic Religions is its focus on suffering rather than obedience to an imaginary dictator, as well as a "use what works, toss the rest" approach.

    I've started working in meditation whenever I have freetime. I'm going on day 3. I should be seeing results by now.

    The saturday guru said there are no goals in zen, only presence.

    Maybe I'm trying TOO hard.

    I don't even really need a response (though I like them since it is a long time between meditation meetings). I just wanted to journal what I was thinking more than anything else.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

  6. #486
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/so
    Socionics
    ENFP Ne
    Posts
    3,218

    Default

    Instead of being "ripped apart" by rapidly shifting mental states, meditation has shown me all these differing positions and passions lie just beneath the surface of my normal mind, and they comingle and interact. Its interesing that I have more thought bubbles in distracting places than in quiet places. My mind almost goes blank in a peaceful place.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

  7. #487
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    estp
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,035

    Default

    I hope I am not hijacking Starry's thread here and I hope I don't sound preachy or as a know it all cus I am not like that IRL at all.

    Here goes @The Wailing Specter :-

    1. This is bogus. I should have experienced enlightenment by now.
    You should never try to attain enlightenment. It's okay to have it in the back of your mind but should NOT try to attain it. This would stress you quite a lot from my experience. This is what I do to motivate myself without stressing myself to attain nirvana which I used to:-

    If I can use this 'practice' to not get overwhelmed by anger, jealousy, guilt or prevent self from becoming too greedy for sensory and mental pleasures that should be enough (nirvana can fly a kite) and if I do it long enough I 'might' attain Nirvana.

    Think of it as typing on a keyboard. There is a particular way to hold the keys on the keyboard. Before you get used to it I used to think it would be easier if I just use my index fingure to type while staring at the keys rather than the board. But despite this I persisted and used the technique advocated by experts. Now because I persisted I can type without looking at the keys and even while having my eyes closed.

    Think of your Vipassana practice as something like typing on the keyboard. At first if becomes annoying and hard but if you persist you'd SURELY be able to: note (saying in your head) your emotions, sensations (whether negative or positive) as it happens and finally watch them without being attached or averse to them at all. This will become second nature sooner or later (like typing on the keyboard without looking at the keys). And if you do it long enough you will attain Nirvana.

    Until then practice vipassana/zen until this becomes second nature - this should be your goal.

    Read this article again and what I am trying to say might be a little bit more clearer - Writing Down Feelings Really Does Make Us Feel Better, Study Says


    7. I got this mastered...I haven't had a thought in minutes. Well, that was one. That was another. That was another. That was another...
    This is wrong. But please don't be discouraged because I myself used to think this was the goal and most people think it is.

    The goal is NOT to not have any thoughts. Even people who've attained Nirvana/Enlightenment has a million thoughts per day. But they are NOT affected by them because of what I said above. They have been noting (in their heads) their feelings for so long then can watch them without being affected at all and they don't even intentionally practice vipassana anymore.

    On a side note - initially even though you'd be able to note your feelings which will considerably reduce the affect it has on your hormones/body/mind (read the article above) you'd still be somewhat affected by them to a certain degree. But that is OKAY cus if you do it for long enough one day you wouldn't be affected at all which is Nirvana.

    I am still in this stage. I can note my feelings and watch them but many a times even if I watch them though my mind starts to calm down a lot I am still quite affected by them and have a million feelings that goes even unnoted. It's okay because I know I am doing something that would benefit me RIGHT NOW to a certain degree and would be an expert at it in atleast another couple of years.


    11. Nice way to violate the rules of your new practice by killing that lizard. Why did you even do it?
    There are NO rules in Buddhism. Your actions have consequences and your intention behind these actions will amplify these consequences. (This is the definition of Karma in Buddhism.) There are 5 percepts (self conduct) in Buddhism which are: refraining from harming others, taking what is not given/stealing, sexual misconduct/adulatory/cheating, lying and gossiping, taking intoxicating substances. This are not rules and Buddha hasn't banned them. He hasn't banned anything for laypersons probably because he felt it was impractical to do so.

    For example how can you not kill someone if you are in armed forces and someone is trying to kill another person or you? However if I am not mistaken Buddhist MONKs are not supposed to kill at all. They can always leave the monastry (which is NOT considered a sin in buddhism) if they want to engage in activities which might lead them to take others' lives.

    Also those famous five percepts were Jain practices. They came to Buddha and said whether he can recommend his followers to follow them. Buddha said okay and asked his followers to follow these 5 disciplines.

    Ps - I don't like lizards either and they frighten me. If a snake visits me at my home I would more likely kill it too. However, I wouldn't encourage you to go out of your way to hunt down lizards in the wild or something .


    12. I'm going to be one of those monks that can control every aspect of their physiology. That's so cool!
    They can't. Most monks haven't attained nirvana. Like I said above even the ones who have attained nirvana have feelings. They just by second nature note them and watch them rise and fall. Also you said physiology instead of psychology. I doubt people who attained nirvana become Ninjas D.


    15. I really need to get one of those meditation cushions.
    I wish I had those. But your cat would probably occupy these cushions more and frown at you for using them.


    17. Bah, there is no evidence of reincarnation. Just stick to mindfulness and keep it simple.
    Yessss.

    Well, one way Buddhism trumps Abrahamic Religions is its focus on suffering rather than obedience to an imaginary dictator, as well as a "use what works, toss the rest" approach.
    People most often confuse the word Dukkha (in the first noble truth) with suffering. Dukkha means dissatisfaction or stress. Siddartha's primary goal was to find a cure for dissatisfaction. He wanted to find a method by which to eradicate dissatisfaction.

    One cannot say life is suffering when you have everything you want it life. But that person might feel dissatisfied after a while.

    Lets take a few positive things for example: Even when you accomplish something you wanted, get something you wanted, receive a complement, win someone's heart etc sooner or later after a while you feel dissatisfied cus you want more. And once you get that thing you wanted which you thought would fill your dissatisfaction again something happens that will lead you to be dissatisfied.

    When you are sick, when someone you like die, when you grow old, when you don't get what you want, when someone breaks your heart etc you do not like the current presence of the situation thus feel dissatisfied or sad about it. At this instance people might conveniently use the word suffering instead of dissatisfaction. But if you read the above you might think dissatisfaction is a better word.

    I think I know why the word dukkha was equated to suffering, There is a historical aspect to it. That's another story though.

    I've started working in meditation whenever I have freetime. I'm going on day 3. I should be seeing results by now.
    You can also do it while you are engaged in your day to day activities like walking, talking, eating, watching tv etc. This is kayanupassana (observing body). The best part about this is when you do this you can note your feelings (emotions/thoughts and sensations) as they rise while you go about your day to day life.

    HOWEVER this is sattipattana NOT Zen. I don't know anything about zen. Since you are following zen from a proper teacher you should do as he says not as I say. Sorry if I confused you.

    The saturday guru said there are no goals in zen, only presence. Maybe I'm trying TOO hard.
    Do zen masters talk in riddles???
    .
    Likes The Wailing Specter, Starry liked this post

  8. #488
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/so
    Socionics
    ENFP Ne
    Posts
    3,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    I hope I am not hijacking Starry's thread here and I hope I don't sound preachy or as a know it all cus I am not like that IRL at all.

    Here goes @The Wailing Specter :-



    You should never try to attain enlightenment. It's okay to have it in the back of your mind but should NOT try to attain it. This would stress you quite a lot from my experience. This is what I do to motivate myself without stressing myself to attain nirvana which I used to:-

    If I can use this 'practice' to not get overwhelmed by anger, jealousy, guilt or prevent self from becoming too greedy for sensory and mental pleasures that should be enough (nirvana can fly a kite) and if I do it long enough I 'might' attain Nirvana.

    Think of it as typing on a keyboard. There is a particular way to hold the keys on the keyboard. Before you get used to it I used to think it would be easier if I just use my index fingure to type while staring at the keys rather than the board. But despite this I persisted and used the technique advocated by experts. Now because I persisted I can type without looking at the keys and even while having my eyes closed.

    Think of your Vipassana practice as something like typing on the keyboard. At first if becomes annoying and hard but if you persist you'd SURELY be able to: note (saying in your head) your emotions, sensations (whether negative or positive) as it happens and finally watch them without being attached or averse to them at all. This will become second nature sooner or later (like typing on the keyboard without looking at the keys). And if you do it long enough you will attain Nirvana.

    Until then practice vipassana/zen until this becomes second nature - this should be your goal.

    Read this article again and what I am trying to say might be a little bit more clearer - Writing Down Feelings Really Does Make Us Feel Better, Study Says




    This is wrong. But please don't be discouraged because I myself used to think this was the goal and most people think it is.

    The goal is NOT to not have any thoughts. Even people who've attained Nirvana/Enlightenment has a million thoughts per day. But they are NOT affected by them because of what I said above. They have been noting (in their heads) their feelings for so long then can watch them without being affected at all and they don't even intentionally practice vipassana anymore.

    On a side note - initially even though you'd be able to note your feelings which will considerably reduce the affect it has on your hormones/body/mind (read the article above) you'd still be somewhat affected by them to a certain degree. But that is OKAY cus if you do it for long enough one day you wouldn't be affected at all which is Nirvana.

    I am still in this stage. I can note my feelings and watch them but many a times even if I watch them though my mind starts to calm down a lot I am still quite affected by them and have a million feelings that goes even unnoted. It's okay because I know I am doing something that would benefit me RIGHT NOW to a certain degree and would be an expert at it in atleast another couple of years.




    There are NO rules in Buddhism. Your actions have consequences and your intention behind these actions will amplify these consequences. (This is the definition of Karma in Buddhism.) There are 5 percepts (self conduct) in Buddhism which are: refraining from harming others, taking what is not given/stealing, sexual misconduct/adulatory/cheating, lying and gossiping, taking intoxicating substances. This are not rules and Buddha hasn't banned them. He hasn't banned anything for laypersons probably because he felt it was impractical to do so.

    For example how can you not kill someone if you are in armed forces and someone is trying to kill another person or you? However if I am not mistaken Buddhist MONKs are not supposed to kill at all. They can always leave the monastry (which is NOT considered a sin in buddhism) if they want to engage in activities which might lead them to take others' lives.

    Also those famous five percepts were Jain practices. They came to Buddha and said whether he can recommend his followers to follow them. Buddha said okay and asked his followers to follow these 5 disciplines.

    Ps - I don't like lizards either and they frighten me. If a snake visits me at my home I would more likely kill it too. However, I wouldn't encourage you to go out of your way to hunt down lizards in the wild or something .




    They can't. Most monks haven't attained nirvana. Like I said above even the ones who have attained nirvana have feelings. They just by second nature note them and watch them rise and fall. Also you said physiology instead of psychology. I doubt people who attained nirvana become Ninjas D.




    I wish I had those. But your cat would probably occupy these cushions more and frown at you for using them.




    Yessss.



    People most often confuse the word Dukkha (in the first noble truth) with suffering. Dukkha means dissatisfaction or stress. Siddartha's primary goal was to find a cure for dissatisfaction. He wanted to find a method by which to eradicate dissatisfaction.

    One cannot say life is suffering when you have everything you want it life. But that person might feel dissatisfied after a while.

    Lets take a few positive things for example: Even when you accomplish something you wanted, get something you wanted, receive a complement, win someone's heart etc sooner or later after a while you feel dissatisfied cus you want more. And once you get that thing you wanted which you thought would fill your dissatisfaction again something happens that will lead you to be dissatisfied.

    When you are sick, when someone you like die, when you grow old, when you don't get what you want, when someone breaks your heart etc you do not like the current presence of the situation thus feel dissatisfied or sad about it. At this instance people might conveniently use the word suffering instead of dissatisfaction. But if you read the above you might think dissatisfaction is a better word.

    I think I know why the word dukkha was equated to suffering, There is a historical aspect to it. That's another story though.



    You can also do it while you are engaged in your day to day activities like walking, talking, eating, watching tv etc. This is kayanupassana (observing body). The best part about this is when you do this you can note your feelings (emotions/thoughts and sensations) as they rise while you go about your day to day life.

    HOWEVER this is sattipattana NOT Zen. I don't know anything about zen. Since you are following zen from a proper teacher you should do as he says not as I say. Sorry if I confused you.



    Do zen masters talk in riddles???
    Zen masters use a lot of riddles, sometimes without meaning it. Zen and Vipassana are very similar. Zen came from Japan and Vipassana came from India. Zen is still very Japanese, but Vipassana is seen more in Thailand, now.
    Living Two Traditions: Insight Meditation Center

    (If you read my article, I promise to read yours and respond! )
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Starry liked this post

  9. #489
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    estp
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,035

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post
    Zen masters use a lot of riddles, sometimes without meaning it. Zen and Vipassana are very similar. Zen came from Japan and Vipassana came from India. Zen is still very Japanese, but Vipassana is seen more in Thailand, now.
    Living Two Traditions: Insight Meditation Center

    (If you read my article, I promise to read yours and respond! )
    I read the article. It doesnt do a good job distinguishing between the techniques. It only distinguishes between the experience. I quickly tried to read some articles on zen/zazen. The way i see it is zazen observes the mind without labelling the feelings but whe meditating. Zen probably teaches one to practice while going about your daily life. By practicing zazen one would begin to realize anitta (impermanence) aspect whereas vipassna would help one realize anatma (no soul).

    I need to k ow how a zen practiotioner watches one's feelings as he goes about his life? (While in a non medotative posture.) If you know please let me know.
    .
    Likes Starry liked this post

  10. #490
    Not Sexy. Not ENFP. Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,074

    Default

    riva...what you're discussing is so important for this thread...
    لا تستطيع كسر المكسور
    Likes riva, Masokissed, The Wailing Specter liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Possible types based on Wisdom of the Enneagram tests
    By Grublet in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-03-2015, 09:37 AM
  2. [Enneagram] The Wisdom of the Enneagram (Riso and Hudson)
    By highlander in forum Typology and Psychology Book Reviews
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-18-2014, 09:11 AM
  3. The Wisdom Of Foolishness
    By highlander in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-15-2010, 12:00 AM
  4. The Wisdom of Hate Crimes <split>
    By Lateralus in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 01-26-2009, 10:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts