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[Type 7] The Wisdom of the Enneagram Seven

Avocado

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All I knew and all I believed,
are crumbling images
that no longer comfort me.
I scramble to reach higher ground,
Order and sanity,
Something to comfort me.

Soon the water will come
and claim what is mine.
I must leave it behind,
and climb to a new place now.


This ground
Is not the rock I thought it to be.

Thought I was high.
Thought I was free.
Thought I was there.
Divine Destiny.

I was wrong.

This
Changes
EVERYTHING

The water is rising up on me.
Thought the sun would come deliver me,
but the truth has come to punish me instead.

-Flood​



I don't think there's a lesson I keep learning, and forgetting, being humbled, learning, and forgetting more than the above.

"We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off."


I feel like my whole life has been trying to square this circle:


Knight of Wands

XJ9IuVl.jpg




CHARMING……….SUPERFICIAL
SELF-CONFIDENT……….COCKY
DARING……….FOOLHARDY
ADVENTUROUS……….RESTLESS
PASSIONATE……….HOT-TEMPERED

I feel that poem. It describes how I feel about life. The crumbling images are quite literally like my childhood religion, the rising tide is the past, claiming what I hold dear, the unsteady rock is my present, and the sun failing to do what I expect and the truth punishing me is how my plans often turn out.

Very insightful look into my soul, yukon.
 

Avocado

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One of the things you must remember MQ...is the 7 description is attempting to cover a lot of ground in a few paragraphs (or even a few pages.) IOW most of them are trying to encompass two very different wings...3 variants, 6 stacks...a variety of personality types... and yah, unfortunately, they just don't get down to the level of e7 ENFP so/sp currently dealing with so many Life challenges that would lay-flat most them happy-assed e7s as commonly described. But they exist...and I know this because I've been one of them. I am one of them.

I started this thread for you actually if you remember. I don't worry about e7s that had an easy time identifying e7 as their type. Why? <-If this is so then what do we know of them? Well, that they're fuckin happy and will most likely remain uninterested...seeing it as completely unnecessary... in all aspects of e7 pathways to health/integration. The thing I find so frustrating about e7 and the e7 core issues... is at the precise moment an e7 absolutely needs to understand they are e7 like never before...that is exactly when they will reject 7 in favor of 4 and 5 and 6.

The pathways towards health for 4, 5 and 6...will never help you...nor will they help the mind-numbing number of e7 mistypes.

Contrary to everything you have read and observed... there are in existence iNtuitive e7s with a very anxious, paranoid and hyper-active 6-wing (they're not all connected-Sensor 7s with a strong 8 wing.) There are a good deal of happy-assed, social-butterfly 7s that are merely acting out of a need to feed the core fear. Sometimes these 7s are even consciously aware on some level that they are doing this. But more importantly, there are socially-awkward 7s. And (you might want to sit down for this actually...) 7s can and do become depressed. Will they then still know they are 7s?

6a00d8341c5ced53ef017c32311dc9970b-pi


but I promise you MQ...e7s can become depressed.

I am graduating tomorrow.
To leave these halls behind is causing both optimism and sorrow.

My future is presenting me with a test.
To pass is happiness, to fail is pain.
My hope is things will turn out for the best.
Lets just hope I remain sane.


To awnser you, [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] , yes, your description does reaffirm e7.
 

Starry

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I am graduating tomorrow.
To leave these halls behind is causing both optimism and sorrow.

My future is presenting me with a test.
To pass is happiness, to fail is pain.
My hope is things will turn out for the best.
Lets just hope I remain sane.


Oh Magic Qwan Congratulations. I am so happy to know this...because now I will know to be there with you tomorrow in my heart. I'll be right there next to you celebrating how strong you are. Feel for me...as I will be one of the happiest, proudest people in the whole damn room. I'll be the one imagining the brightest tomorrow possible - all for you.


And now you are old enough...
I can share with you the Secret to living a good Life...


Have an amazing day tomorrow.
Happy Graduation
 

Avocado

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Oh Magic Qwan Congratulations. I am so happy to know this...because now I will know to be there with you tomorrow in my heart. I'll be right there next to you celebrating how strong you are. Feel for me...as I will be one of the happiest, proudest people in the whole damn room. I'll be the one imagining the brightest tomorrow possible - all for you.


And now you are old enough...
I can share with you the Secret to living a good Life...


Have an amazing day tomorrow.
Happy Graduation

Thank You, [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] !

I just got word that I passed my PTCB exam, too, so I am now qualified to work in a pharmacy, as well. It will take a month to be official, though.

Thank you for sharing your advice, and I will cherish it in my heart forever.
 

Starry

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Thank you for sharing your advice, and I will cherish it in my heart forever.


Good. Because I caught myself here... and realized I had some more for you.


My future is presenting me with a test.
To pass is happiness, to fail is pain.
My hope is things will turn out for the best.
Lets just hope I remain sane.


^^You are making an unhealthy e7 mistake in your thinking above. And so I'm going to give you some quick e5 integration basics and I want you to really pay attention here...because this is a mistake I see you making over and over and you need to *get* this MQ. This kind of bullshit thinking will keep you sick. Trust me, as someone that has done the same, when I tell you that the above statements are jam-packed with entitlement...that you've done an amazing job of disguising.

Are you being tested? Oh hell yes. But there's none of this 'pass' or 'fail' bullshit...'happiness' vs 'pain.' <-You are being very dramatic and emotional and narcissistic here.

e5s...take their emotions out of situations...they detach from their emotions so they can look upon a situation and see it 'objectively' for what it really is.

Now I see you have yourself listed as an Atheist there above...but I'm still seeing a good deal of misguided Western religious thought in what you say. If I'm good...good things will happen to me. If I'm bad...painful things will happen to me. And what I can do about it? Well, I can hope real, real hard (read: pray).

^^please no more of this. As soon as you possibly can I would like you to learn everything there is to know about/study The 4 Noble Truths. (<-okay I was being dramatic there. just a fundamental understanding of the concepts is all you need here.)

The Noble Truth of Suffering
The Noble Truth of the Origins of Suffering
The Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering
The Noble Truth of the Path to the Cessation of Suffering


One way to put an end to a great deal of suffering in your life...is to know that you are not.


There's a thread right now where you can post songs that reflect who you are. And I'm now going to post this song. But I'm going to post here for you and I want you to listen to it MQ...many times if you will. I'm trying to get you to really see what I'm saying here. There's e5 integration for the e7 in this song. [although please look away from the terrible clip cover of this haha. this song is from an old movie and I want you to take it seriously!]

This female is basically singing about not being able to live out her wild dreams. She's unable to break away from the reality that binds her and everyone else for that matter. There's a lot of intensity to this song...there's the sound of the forward movement of a warrior. But I believe you will agree that there's no emotion. She is not responding with sadness or anger... she's just observing and acknowledging her reality. <-And there's so much power in that MQ. Identifying what is real...and moving forward with it...free from all the ways you create suffering.


All my life I wanted to fly
But I don't have the wings and I wonder why.


 

Avocado

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I listened to it, though I am unsure how to use it. I'll sleep on it...

So, I may not travel the world or have a happy house or be content in a job?

Sure, chance and natural forces shape the universe, but isn't it better to be a nice guy than a dick?

After all this time, are you saying I should reverse course on trying to validate my own feelings over the cultist mentality?

If I understand what you are saying, it sounds VERY scary.

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] ?


She says ''2 is 2'' and ''red is red'' and ''white is white''

Is she implying that reality should be seen for what it is, nothing more?
 
Last edited:

Starry

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I listened to it, though I am unsure how to use it. I'll sleep on it...

So, I may not travel the world or have a happy house or be content in a job?

Sure, chance and natural forces shape the universe, but isn't it better to be a nice guy than a dick?

After all this time, are you saying I should reverse course on trying to validate my own feelings over the cultist mentality?

If I understand what you are saying, it sounds VERY scary.

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] ?


With the song...I'm trying to get you to hear the sound of sobriety. Which will be very scary at first because it will be in direct opposition to all the lutes and magical harpsichords you've got playing in your head.

I'm going to go to sleep now as well but in anticipation of this kind of response from you I wanted to leave you with a little something.

The only thing I'm asking you to do is to let go of all the magical things you believe *should* be happening to you...so that *if* and when they don't happen...you do not suffer. You do not throw up your arms and say "I've failed!" and "I'm so good...why do these things happen to me?" and "Life is so painful...so unfair!"

I'm asking you to start from a place of sobriety. Everything's the same...you behave the same...you work towards the same goals... the only difference is you are to no longer pre-judge what is good and what is bad. What is success and what is failure. You are going to release the magical outcome...so you can enjoy the journey. So you can exist in reality sober (fully awake)...you will take what happens to you in reality...and then apply the e7 positivity, gratitude...and magic.
 

tinker683

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“Life will break you. Nobody can protect you from that. And living alone won't either, for solitude will also break you with its yearning. You have to love. You have to feel. It is the reason you are here on earth. You are here to risk your heart. You are here to be swallowed up. And when it happens that you are broken, or betrayed, or left, or hurt, or death brushes near, let yourself sit by an apple tree and listen to the apples falling all around you in heaps, wasting their sweetness.

Tell yourself you tasted as many as you could.”

-Louise Erdrich

Very lovely. I like it :wubbie:
 

Avocado

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With the song...I'm trying to get you to hear the sound of sobriety. Which will be very scary at first because it will be in direct opposition to all the lutes and magical harpsichords you've got playing in your head.

I'm going to go to sleep now as well but in anticipation of this kind of response from you I wanted to leave you with a little something.

The only thing I'm asking you to do is to let go of all the magical things you believe *should* be happening to you...so that *if* and when they don't happen...you do not suffer. You do not throw up your arms and say "I've failed!" and "I'm so good...why do these things happen to me?" and "Life is so painful...so unfair!"

I'm asking you to start from a place of sobriety. Everything's the same...you behave the same...you work towards the same goals... the only difference is you are to no longer pre-judge what is good and what is bad. What is success and what is failure. You are going to release the magical outcome...so you can enjoy the journey. So you can exist in reality sober (fully awake)...you will take what happens to you in reality...and then apply the e7 positivity, gratitude...and magic.

I...am at a loss for how to respond. I know that I often put myself ahead of others and tell myself it was selfless and good [I get this if I journal my thoughts], I know that I have a lot of work ahead to become a travelling nurse practitioneer, and it may never happen [I sometimes forget and assume I will get it], and I cry when I am alone. I cried this morning because I realized how selfish and disloyal I can be at times. I know this is far from the lesson you intended, but it is what I got.
 

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Sure, chance and natural forces shape the universe, but isn't it better to be a nice guy than a dick?

It's better to be yourself.

(And thanks for tagging me ;))
 

Fluffywolf

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It's a nice quote which should be easy to relate to, but right now it could not resonate less with me. :mellow:

Also, that font is pretty painful. :p
 

five sounds

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I love this thread and the people in it.
 

Starry

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I...am at a loss for how to respond. I know that I often put myself ahead of others and tell myself it was selfless and good [I get this if I journal my thoughts], I know that I have a lot of work ahead to become a travelling nurse practitioneer, and it may never happen [I sometimes forget and assume I will get it], and I cry when I am alone. I cried this morning because I realized how selfish and disloyal I can be at times. I know this is far from the lesson you intended, but it is what I got.


Hey MQ,

Are you able to untag your entire friends list?
 
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Just occured to me that someone thought I wrote what was in red. NOPE I'm not even close to that good.

They're song lyrics from Tool, song: Flood

Here it is with lyrics, if you're interested. The song starts at 4:25, everything before that is a Ritual Summoning (it's pretty gnarly though). And at 7:00, I always get chills down my spine.

Highly recommend headphones.

Anyway, if you got time to waste:


 

The Great One

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I actually like their sexual 7 description in comparison to Naranjo's. Naranjo makes every sexual 7 look like some time of Ariel from Little Mermaid, when in fact, I know this isn't true. I do believe that many Sx/sp 7's are like this, but I don't know of many sx/so 7's that are like this.
 

Avocado

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I'm in the middle of putting together a response for you while running around... I should have something to you by later tonight.

I've been thinking of you diploma holder...

I was thinking of you, too. I will start nursing school, soon. I hope I can break my nail biting habit, integrate to healthy 5, and balance with my pharmacy job.

It seems like I'd see more cool stuff with nursing and if I travel nurse, I could fulfill at least one of my bucket-list points--seeing the world for all of its splendor.
 

Starry

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whoops...I should say that in spite of having exchanged posts...I didn't alter/update this message I was writing for that.
--------------

Super excited for your day MQ. I hope you are making it memorable.

As for what's being discussed here...this can wait. I'd like you to untag your friends list though if you would as I wanted this thread to be for 7s...and people wanting to understand 7ness. It wouldn't feel right to me to have posts in this thread from people that feel obligated to respond on some level because they were tagged. This is a tag free zone :wink: But the rest of this can wait until you are ready to think. I'm not giving-up on explaining this though in spite of you working very hard not to understand it haha. I'll explain it in a hundred different ways if I must starting with...


I...am at a loss for how to respond. I know that I often put myself ahead of others and tell myself it was selfless and good [I get this if I journal my thoughts], I know that I have a lot of work ahead to become a travelling nurse practitioneer, and it may never happen [I sometimes forget and assume I will get it], and I cry when I am alone. I cried this morning because I realized how selfish and disloyal I can be at times. I know this is far from the lesson you intended, but it is what I got.


^^I'm wondering what your understanding of e7 Narcissism is when I read the above. Or just Narcissism in general. I'm assuming you have heard of the god Narcissus from the Greek myth...

narcissus.jpg



...the god that became a bit overly-fascinated with his own reflection in a pond aka "the first known tale highlighting a key feature of the enneagram 7s character." I want you to make note here of the fact I used the word 'fascinated' above as opposed to 'love'...as in he fell in love with his own reflection. <-No. Another word I've seen used is 'fixated.'

I'm making this very relevant distinction because people tend to incorrectly understand the condition/trait of narcissism as an exaggerated sense of self-love (ego, conceit, being without modesty). <-But this is merely one of the ways the fixation manifests. Now, this well documented and so I can only guess as to the reasons why people fail to recognize narcissism in all its forms...but the Narcissist can just as likely be the individual that exaggerates their flaws. All the Narcissist is... is an individual that has an exaggerated sense of importance...an exaggerated sense of their influence on people or situations whether the individual perceives that importance to be good or bad.

Now stay with me MQ...because I know you are smart enough to get this. I'm going to start connecting some dots here for you...

Narcissism...the exaggerated sense of self-importance...is associated with entitlement. Entitlement is the feeling you have a right to something...correct? So if you purchased a grape snowcone...but the snowcone salesperson mistakenly gave you a lime snowcone instead... you would in those moments feel you had a *right* to either get your money back or have them remake what you had officially ordered. Even if you shrug your shoulders saying "no big, I like lime, I'll just eat this one"... you would still feel you had *grounds* to get what you had originally ordered served to you. That's an easily recognized instance of entitlement: I gave you my hard earned money with an expectation that I was to receive a grape snowcone in exchange. I am entitled to a grape snowcone.

Now, would you ever think to go up to a snowcone salesperson, ask for a grape snowcone and expect to receive one without paying for it? I'm not talking about stealing. I'm talking about asking and expecting to receive a snowcone...no questions asked...no exchange of goods or services.... You just ask and expect to receive one on the basis of being Magic Qwan. That's it. Would you ever have an expectation of that nature?

Because Narcissists exaggerate their sense of importance... they very often feel entitled to things without having done anything of true value to warrant receiving them. They feel they deserve things that the majority of other people do not. They don't recognize that their thinking is so very different from everyone else's because they are fixated on themselves...they can't see outside of themselves...but it is. Narcissists believe they are entitled to certain things just because they *exist* <-This is exactly what the unhealthy e7 believes.

Still with me?

I'm starting to think one of the worst things to have happen to a young e7 child...especially if that child is an iNtuitive...is to expose them to religion and fairytales over and over...but without an adult *voice of reason* to ground all of that *magic* in reality for them. johnnyyukon makes mention of this same thing in his eloquent post. Because the young e7 is going to buy it hook, line and sinker. The young e7...that is already exaggerating their own significance/influence...is not in a position to remain skeptical...or recognize that a lot of this stuff is meant as symbolism...Oh no. All this stuff ends up being taken as literal by the young, unattended e7 because it's in-line with what they already optimistically suspect about the world. Everyone has a fairytale comin to them...and all they have to do is kick-back and enjoy the ride. The magical-thinking is reinforced/confirmed/validated/set. I am good. I am special. And as a sole consequence of this alone...good and special things will automatically happen to me.

What happens though to an e7 with an 'already set' exaggerated sense of significance and inclination towards magical-thinking when not enough good is happening to them? Again, these are people that believe good is on its way...because they are good. So what happens when not enough of their entitled expectations are being met...or worse...what happens if a series of bad things happen? Well, then the doubt starts to creep in. Fairytales though...the hero is always tested right? So for a while the optimism and magical-thinking continues. But what if then all that occurs is more and more *bad*?

If not enough good comes to the e7...if not enough of their entitled expectations are randomly being met so that they are capable of maintaining the constant optimism... one of two things is going to occur to this delusional thinker. Some of these e7s are going to push the external world for experience. In what becomes a state of hyper-optimism...they are going to push up against the external world to get it to cough-up the entitlement...their reward. And a smaller number of these e7s magically morph into e4s and e5s start to become a bit hysterical/painfully confused about the world...and turn inward. They believe in fairytales...they believe something good was supposed to happen...so why hasn't it? The e7 Narcissism...the inflated sense of significance now turns into an exaggerated sense of what may be or is wrong with them. The only significant person that good things will not happen to is someone that is bad...or has been forsaken in some terrible way...or both. <-Here is where you have arrived.

And I've seen you announce your arrival to this place every time you speak poorly about yourself. Every time you exaggerate your role in some sort of personal interaction (you make yourself responsible for someone else's poor behavior or treatment of you.) You tell of how your sense of entitlement has been forsaken every time you cry-out that the world is a terrible place...a horrible, meaningless place... And so I'm asking you now...I'm telling you now that you need to become sober so you can see things for how and what they really are.



My future is presenting me with a test.
To pass is happiness, to fail is pain.
My hope is things will turn out for the best.
Lets just hope I remain sane.


^^What in the hell is this? This sonnet you've written...? Are you truly unable to see the drama you've packed into these few words? Let me rewrite this sonnet for you from the perspective of a sober, detached, reasonable thinker.

As a sober individual...no longer *high* on magical-thinking...
it has now become clear to me that my future isn't testing me in any way... Why? Well, because *my future* doesn't have that kind of power for one... But I've also come to the realization that if I'm going to claim to be an atheist...even deciding to advertise it in my signature for all forumers at TypoC to see... it just makes sense that I should also then let-go of all notions of supernatural intervention. In other words, why would an atheist believe they were being *tested* in any way...amiright?

I now see myself as a living human being just experiencing life...just like every other human being on the planet. As a sober person no longer fixated on myself...it has become clear that I am just like everyone else. The things that challenge me...are no different...no more or less in number than anyone else. I now understand that I suffer no more or less than anybody else. And there's no 'pass' or 'fail' either I've come to see. It's just life. See, before I became sober...when I used to exaggerate my significance...I would assign value to things like I was somehow important enough to do that.

Today I just do the best I can to achieve what I would like for myself...to shape my life in a way that I suspect will make me happy. I don't increase my suffering by believing things like "if A happens" I have passed and will be happy...and "if B happens" I have failed and will now be in pain. What I do now is work towards my goals...and make the very best of circumstances after they unfold. I no longer passively hope for the things I believe I'm entitled to to just happen. I am no longer crippled by a delusional value system. I live in the present. I live without expectations. I live in reality. I work with what I have. I make the best of what I have.


She says ''2 is 2'' and ''red is red'' and ''white is white''

Is she implying that reality should be seen for what it is, nothing more?


Bingo.


The song is awkward sounding which I really like... for this concept I am/was trying to get you to understand.
The singer is sober. She's saying...

All my life I've wanted to fly but I don't have the wings and I wonder why.

What she's not saying is...

All my life I've wanted to fly... And unfortunately, because I'm a delusional Narcissist...completely unwilling to see reality for what it is and make the best of it... I'm assigning incredible value to *flying.* I believe that because I want to fly...I'm entitled to flying. The only way I somehow know ahead of time that I will be happy and life will have meaning is if I can be given the power to grow wings and fly. No flying...no happiness and no meaning.


What she's not saying is...

2 is 'bad' and red is 'good' ..................so that from now on every time '2' appears...there's a big panic and life loses its meaning.

She's saying '2 is just 2'
 

Avocado

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whoops...I should say that in spite of having exchanged posts...I didn't alter/update this message I was writing for that.
--------------

Super excited for your day MQ. I hope you are making it memorable.

As for what's being discussed here...this can wait. I'd like you to untag your friends list though if you would as I wanted this thread to be for 7s...and people wanting to understand 7ness. It wouldn't feel right to me to have posts in this thread from people that feel obligated to respond on some level because they were tagged. This is a tag free zone :wink: But the rest of this can wait until you are ready to think. I'm not giving-up on explaining this though in spite of you working very hard not to understand it haha. I'll explain it in a hundred different ways if I must starting with...





^^I'm wondering what your understanding of e7 Narcissism is when I read the above. Or just Narcissism in general. I'm assuming you have heard of the god Narcissus from the Greek myth...

narcissus.jpg



...the god that became a bit overly-fascinated with his own reflection in a pond aka "the first known tale highlighting a key feature of the enneagram 7s character." I want you to make note here of the fact I used the word 'fascinated' above as opposed to 'love'...as in he fell in love with his own reflection. <-No. Another word I've seen used is 'fixated.'

I'm making this very relevant distinction because people tend to incorrectly understand the condition/trait of narcissism as an exaggerated sense of self-love (ego, conceit, being without modesty). <-But this is merely one of the ways the fixation manifests. Now, this well documented and so I can only guess as to the reasons why people fail to recognize narcissism in all its forms...but the Narcissist can just as likely be the individual that exaggerates their flaws. All the Narcissist is... is an individual that has an exaggerated sense of importance...an exaggerated sense of their influence on people or situations whether the individual perceives that importance to be good or bad.

Now stay with me MQ...because I know you are smart enough to get this. I'm going to start connecting some dots here for you...

Narcissism...the exaggerated sense of self-importance...is associated with entitlement. Entitlement is the feeling you have a right to something...correct? So if you purchased a grape snowcone...but the snowcone salesperson mistakenly gave you a lime snowcone instead... you would in those moments feel you had a *right* to either get your money back or have them remake what you had officially ordered. Even if you shrug your shoulders saying "no big, I like lime, I'll just eat this one"... you would still feel you had *grounds* to get what you had originally ordered served to you. That's an easily recognized instance of entitlement: I gave you my hard earned money with an expectation that I was to receive a grape snowcone in exchange. I am entitled to a grape snowcone.

Now, would you ever think to go up to a snowcone salesperson, ask for a grape snowcone and expect to receive one without paying for it? I'm not talking about stealing. I'm talking about asking and expecting to receive a snowcone...no questions asked...no exchange of goods or services.... You just ask and expect to receive one on the basis of being Magic Qwan. That's it. Would you ever have an expectation of that nature?

Because Narcissists exaggerate their sense of importance... they very often feel entitled to things without having done anything of true value to warrant receiving them. They feel they deserve things that the majority of other people do not. They don't recognize that their thinking is so very different from everyone else's because they are fixated on themselves...they can't see outside of themselves...but it is. Narcissists believe they are entitled to certain things just because they *exist* <-This is exactly what the unhealthy e7 believes.

Still with me?

I'm starting to think one of the worst things to have happen to a young e7 child...especially if that child is an iNtuitive...is to expose them to religion and fairytales over and over...but without an adult *voice of reason* to ground all of that *magic* in reality for them. johnnyyukon makes mention of this same thing in his eloquent post. Because the young e7 is going to buy it hook, line and sinker. The young e7...that is already exaggerating their own significance/influence...is not in a position to remain skeptical...or recognize that a lot of this stuff is meant as symbolism...Oh no. All this stuff ends up being taken as literal by the young, unattended e7 because it's in-line with what they already optimistically suspect about the world. Everyone has a fairytale comin to them...and all they have to do is kick-back and enjoy the ride. The magical-thinking is reinforced/confirmed/validated/set. I am good. I am special. And as a sole consequence of this alone...good and special things will automatically happen to me.

What happens though to an e7 with an 'already set' exaggerated sense of significance and inclination towards magical-thinking when not enough good is happening to them? Again, these are people that believe good is on its way...because they are good. So what happens when not enough of their entitled expectations are being met...or worse...what happens if a series of bad things happen? Well, then the doubt starts to creep in. Fairytales though...the hero is always tested right? So for a while the optimism and magical-thinking continues. But what if then all that occurs is more and more *bad*?

If not enough good comes to the e7...if not enough of their entitled expectations are randomly being met so that they are capable of maintaining the constant optimism... one of two things is going to occur to this delusional thinker. Some of these e7s are going to push the external world for experience. In what becomes a state of hyper-optimism...they are going to push up against the external world to get it to cough-up the entitlement...their reward. And a smaller number of these e7s magically morph into e4s and e5s start to become a bit hysterical/painfully confused about the world...and turn inward. They believe in fairytales...they believe something good was supposed to happen...so why hasn't it? The e7 Narcissism...the inflated sense of significance now turns into an exaggerated sense of what may be or is wrong with them. The only significant person that good things will not happen to is someone that is bad...or has been forsaken in some terrible way...or both. <-Here is where you have arrived.

And I've seen you announce your arrival to this place every time you speak poorly about yourself. Every time you exaggerate your role in some sort of personal interaction (you make yourself responsible for someone else's poor behavior or treatment of you.) You tell of how your sense of entitlement has been forsaken every time you cry-out that the world is a terrible place...a horrible, meaningless place... And so I'm asking you now...I'm telling you now that you need to become sober so you can see things for how and what they really are.






^^What in the hell is this? This sonnet you've written...? Are you truly unable to see the drama you've packed into these few words? Let me rewrite this sonnet for you from the perspective of a sober, detached, reasonable thinker.

As a sober individual...no longer *high* on magical-thinking...
it has now become clear to me that my future isn't testing me in any way... Why? Well, because *my future* doesn't have that kind of power for one... But I've also come to the realization that if I'm going to claim to be an atheist...even deciding to advertise it in my signature for all forumers at TypoC to see... it just makes sense that I should also then let-go of all notions of supernatural intervention. In other words, why would an atheist believe they were being *tested* in any way...amiright?

I now see myself as a living human being just experiencing life...just like every other human being on the planet. As a sober person no longer fixated on myself...it has become clear that I am just like everyone else. The things that challenge me...are no different...no more or less in number than anyone else. I now understand that I suffer no more or less than anybody else. And there's no 'pass' or 'fail' either I've come to see. It's just life. See, before I became sober...when I used to exaggerate my significance...I would assign value to things like I was somehow important enough to do that.

Today I just do the best I can to achieve what I would like for myself...to shape my life in a way that I suspect will make me happy. I don't increase my suffering by believing things like "if A happens" I have passed and will be happy...and "if B happens" I have failed and will now be in pain. What I do now is work towards my goals...and make the very best of circumstances after they unfold. I no longer passively hope for the things I believe I'm entitled to to just happen. I am no longer crippled by a delusional value system. I live in the present. I live without expectations. I live in reality. I work with what I have. I make the best of what I have.





Bingo.


The song is awkward sounding which I really like... for this concept I am/was trying to get you to understand.
The singer is sober. She's saying...

All my life I've wanted to fly but I don't have the wings and I wonder why.

What she's not saying is...

All my life I've wanted to fly... And unfortunately, because I'm a delusional Narcissist...completely unwilling to see reality for what it is and make the best of it... I'm assigning incredible value to *flying.* I believe that because I want to fly...I'm entitled to flying. The only way I somehow know ahead of time that I will be happy and life will have meaning is if I can be given the power to grow wings and fly. No flying...no happiness and no meaning.


What she's not saying is...

2 is 'bad' and red is 'good' ..................so that from now on every time '2' appears...there's a big panic and life loses its meaning.

She's saying '2 is just 2'

Thank you, [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] , narcissism makes sense now. When I spoke of ''test'' I wasn't speaking of a supernatural test, but rather the ''test'' of reaching my many goals without a safety-net to catch me if I fall. I know one bad choice could land me in the gutter somewhere or in the grave. I live in the Bible Belt, where I have to put up with fairy-tales on a daily basis and on every street corner. Otherwise, you were very effective at showing me how I am an unhealthy e7 with defense mechanisms. The question now is how to sober up and see reality as it really is and be sure I'm not distorting it. There are some expiriences I feel cheated out of that I feel I should have gotten but the Jehovah's Wittnesses took from me, and I am just looking for my niche in society. One thing is for certain, the current governing body of the Jehovah's Witnesses is an irredeemably evil monster who takes and takes from society and never gives back and, quite frankly, deserves punishment for their crimes against humanity.
 
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