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Thread: The Wisdom of the Enneagram Seven

  1. #341
    Senior Member Array riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    There's never been any doubt in my mind that you're a 7 and like I mentioned to you following the creation of your enneagram thread that I was actually surprised to learn you were legitimately undecided and not merely doing the e7 "let's talk about possibilities for interest, education, creation and entertainment."

    Now, I've been handing out tritype descriptions/outlines merely because I had noticed my copying & pasting skills were getting a little rusty...bless but the thought I had with yours...is you might be one of the few that lands their core type by coming in through the back door.bless <-Or, said in a way that actually makes sense...I was hoping the description of the Ambassador would help you expand your currently narrow understanding of "how a 7 must look, feel and act like"bless beyond the greek sun god Halla.
    So you think I am a 7-9-3? Yeah I am cool with those three letters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Another thing that sometimes helps individuals in your position is to take a break from some of the over-arching concepts and merely catch and consider the little clues when they present themselves.bless Which is precisely why I pulled the above quote over from the Member Photos thread.

    That quote riva is classic e7...and is precisely why the word "playful" can be found in nearly all 7 descriptions...especially descriptions of the notoriously playful 7w8.bless What makes it a valuable clue however...is that it is simultaneously something that would be highly unusual for a core e9 to say.
    As insignificant as this tiny joke may seem to you...do not take for granted all of what needs to be in place within a person's psyche prior to this tiny joke taking its form.bless For the most part 7s feel good about themselves *I'm So Cute!*...and they feel good about others.bless They also generally assume others feel relatively good about themselves as well.bless <-And that's the foundation for "playful" riva.bless When everyone feels good...jokes towards self and others are entertaining and pose no threat to anyone's ego because no one actually takes any of these playful jokes seriously - it's all in fun.bless Now, due to the fact most 7s self-efface in equal amounts if not more than they joke with others...they do seem to have a high joke success rate.bless People seem to get that the dial is set to "playful"blessbless But I'm assuming you've pissed off a person or two in your time riva right?
    Oh yeah. I've pissed quite a lot of people. Mainly online. IRL I can see the state of the person I am talking to and that person can see I am joking too and notice that I joke a shit ton anyway. I usually don't get people offended in RL. Also in my defense I don't knowingly make jokes at the expense of something which is bothering someone and acknowledge others' sensitivities and kinda admire people who are open and confident about their sensitive side, which is probably why I like/admire ENFJs. So I don't really run my mouth all the time and when running my mouth I know I can either get away with it and MOSTLY the other person will be cool with it. Online though body language they cannot see.

    All what you have said about e7s I can relate to -

    - I feel good about myself

    - I assume others are feeling good about themselves too

    - When everyone feels good...jokes towards self and others are entertaining and pose no threat to anyone's ego because no one actually takes any of these playful jokes seriously...... something I can see myself believing in.

    Ps - I'm So Cute is supposed to be sarcastic. I hope people don't really believe that I believe I come across as someone sweet/cute. Lolz.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    If you were conflict avoidant how likely do you think you would be to take these kinds of risks?bless I mean, the bottom line is this:bless it doesn't matter how playful you are or how cute.bless It doesn't matter how perfectly you gauged the situation and how innocently you executed your delivery...blessbless When you jokingly jab at another person...you are automatically causing an interpersonal/social situation that carries hidden within its effect a higher probability for potential conflict.bless And yet I see you do this all the time...why?bless Do you feel separate enough from the people around you that if a person takes something you've obviously said in fun the wrong way...that beyond a sincere apology there's not much you can do...bless that they need to be responsible for how others make them feel - not you?

    It's rare to see 9s...even the more aggressive among them to...to joke in this kind of way.bless And it's not only the potential for conflict...it's the unpredictable quality of it all.
    Even if we ignore the part of me that makes risky jokes I don't think I've ever felt or has been or claimed to be conflict avoidant. However, I am more diplomatic than conflictish for sure BUT through diplomacy I get into conflicts all the time. I can handle it. I am good with words. I can prove a point, except with CP 6s perhaps. Don't even waste your time I tell myself. Online it might be a bit harder to resolve conflicts by arguing or proving your point (you've probably noticed how arguments could be longer online.)

    The question is, are 9s (esp 9w8s) so conflict avoidant as it is said? Do they not even take such silly risks? @sunyata is a 9w8 (I think) and you often see him joking around too with a bit of risk and his ones are more dangerous as they carry sarcasm and satire which could offend people more. However I don't see other E9s doing that too much though. Infact it's very rare.

    The last sentence 'Unpredictability avoidance' makes sense with 9s. I've read often they don't like change too much. Unpredictability of conversations I can handle. Obviously in life, it's not always the same. I am NOT counter arguing here with your point.

    I dont feel removed from people enough to think a simple apology is enough. There really isnt much i can do other than sincerely apologize and make a mental note not to do that again with that person

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    In other words, when 9s create conflict they are deliberate in that.bless They know what they are doing.bless They are not doing the 7 *I wonder what would happen if I said this* no.bless Likewise, it is very, very rare to hear a core 9 self-efface (only 9w8s that I would identify as individuals making use of e6 counterphobia and so not you riva.)bless To the contrary as both 6 and 9 are connected to 3...it is often very subtle...but if you listen very closely you will hear them building themselves up which also reinforces the identity.
    This whole para is a bit confusing.

    Did you mean 'rare to hear a core 9 not self-efface?' This is the first time I learned the meaning of the word and I am using it in a sentence. Not clear what you are saying in that sentence and what is in the brackets.

    Well I do deliberate conflict too. Did you mean to say when e9s take a risk they deliberate that rather than *I wonder how it goes*? I see myself doing both of that but mostly it's a risk.

    Building themselves up in what scenario? arguments, conflicts, jokes etc. Perhaps e7s don't build things up you mean. They just jump right in any of those scenarios you mean. I can see myself doing both though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post

    I actually have a partially written response saved for you...somewhere...bless but I'm popping in here now because I fear I will forget to comment on this if I don't take care of this now.
    Thank you for this. You are awesome. Did I ever tell you that :P.

    ----

    I have been warming upto the idea of e7 for sometime now. And the points you made above made me think 'wow I am a 7.' Only a few things that stand in myself though -

    - Not spontaneous

    I am not a spontaneous guy. I am more planned in my actions even when I have fun. In conversations and when I am with people I am definitely spontaneous (especially in conversations) and definitely extroverted.

    - Not the dude that drags people into doing things -

    Have you noticed this in 7 esp 7w8s. They drag you out and make you do things in a day that someone hasn't done in a year. I am not that guy. 7w8s can make you feel as though you are a turtle. I don't.

    - Not energetic -

    I would never call myself the energetic dude. No way. Again in conversations I am but not physically.

    - Inertia

    This is a genuine problem of mine especially when I was younger. I would say e7s when younger are more active than when they are older. Whereas I am the opposite of that. Very inactive I was when I was young. Though I am active now my activities are planned. Not spontaneous.

    Even though you made some awesome points above these are the main reasons I have e9 still at the back of my mind still, a bit. But right now I would say 7 > 9.
    Last edited by riva; 08-10-2015 at 09:20 PM.
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  2. #342
    Biting Shards Array Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    What if.... not saying this is true or anything...but what if a 7 was unable to understand the game due to there being too many rules and subsequently didn't play...would that entirely hypothetical 7 still receive badass cred from you?
    Well I do believe that would fall under the indifference category........... On top of which all manner of things are possible for those with intellectual Zen eyes.

    Plus you have yet to throw me out of the thread, despite not being a seven.
    At the time they cut me free. I was brimming with defiance. Doctors looking down on me. Breaking every law of science.
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  3. #343
    Immanentize the Eschaton Array Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius View Post
    Well I do believe that would fall under the indifference category........... On top of which all manner of things are possible for those with intellectual Zen eyes.

    Plus you have yet to throw me out of the thread, despite not being a seven.

    haha Umm...okay. I just spent 5 minutes (or more because I kinda lost track of time)... in 'OMG this is the coolest everland!' because what I thought you were expressing at the end there was that *I* wasn't a 7. And I was so excited because I thought with you, chubber...Azure Flame who typed me ENFJ/INFJ... which, to be fair, that is how I test in his system...and Zarathustra who recently said I was e4 which may have been a joke but I was still going to count him...

    I thought I had finally accumulated enough doubt for my very own 'Type Me' thread!...and so I was just day-dreaming/imagining all the fun of it...until it finally clicked in my mind what you were really saying haha. <-And if you want to think any part of that story was exaggerated for affect...I am so totally okay with that haha. I would encourage that line of thought.


    All of your posts in this thread have been so meaningful to me - I'm not really sure I'd be capapble of expressing properly just how much. And I know from all the 'Secret-7 Society' transmissions I receive in total and complete secret...that I'm not the only 7 that feels this same way. This last post I recently responded to in a time-sensitive way though...this most recent exchange... I almost feel like... okay, I'm worried now that I won't figure out how to say what I very much want to say here.

    The kind of 7 you described in your post... I look to those 7s for wisdom... I admire those 7s. That's the kind of 7 I want to be...or at the very least should strive to be for my own wellbeing... when I grow up. Like, I feel you were describing someone like Lady_X ...well okay maybe not as she's a lot like me just smart enough to keep it behind the scenes so I'm going to unmention her. Okay...I'm going to try and stop myself from attempting to come-up with a forum example... Of the 7s here that I know enough about to feel comfortable using as an example probably Lady_X and @five sounds best fit what you describe. They see the game all around them and are undaunted by it...they stay their happy course. <-Unfortunately, I can't claim to be like them in this sane, healthy, inspirational-to-others regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    ...the contemplative, tortured flavor of 4-fixed 7w6.

    ^^In what were originally Arcana's soulful, eloquent words that senza later poached and is subsequently plagiarizing above... Whether she was aware of it or not Arcana was describing me. That's me. And while I'd probably give an arm and part of my liver for some poor drunk to be indifferent to the game...I need to confess that I am decidedly not so (do you need both arms to 'shrug off the game'?...or is it possible to shrug and people will still understand what's being communicated one-armedly...I may need to switch out a limb.)

    I maintain an ongoing awareness and have from a very young age...of how strongly I feel the game is wrong. Of how horrifying it is for me when I allow myself to consider it... instead of scrambling to find some meaningless distraction because I just can't take thinking of it again in those moments. No matter what I do I maintain a constant awareness that one of the countless rewards people receive for playing the game is being able to advance their positions through the exploitation of others...all while believing in their own righteousness (I'm still haunted by a conversation I had with a banker...2nd in charge or whatever you say directly under the CEO... and one of the first things he said to me was that he "got into banking because he really wanted to help people." To which I did an eyeroll in my mind thinking it was a social line I was merely supposed to pretend was true. As he went on though... it suddenly struck me in what remains one of the most horrifying moments of my entire life... He wasn't knowingly exploiting people and just didn't care... Nor was he merely in a tiny bit of denial but under different circumstances would admit to the truth of it... Oh no, this banker had come to BELIEVE IT. This banker had completely convinced himself he was a righteous individual. I was in awe thinking... "Oh wow...so you're really enjoying life. He is a humanitarian enjoying the multi-millions he's earned through his charitable work. I can't even...)

    Anyway, I'm not trying to be a downer...I'm just mentioning the me's because most of the me's out there are typed as 4s. There's clearly a happier thing going on when you're indifferent rather than rejecting the game.
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  4. #344
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    @Dr Mobius

    totally missed an important part of what I wanted to express...I am not with it. I know you would still give me the badass cred. and it is meaningful to me because I also maintain an ongoing awareness of what I lose by not playing. Not a lot of people give compliments for this kind of thing and to find someone that does is the most valuable treasure.


    Oh and do you truly consider yourself a 9?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I think the last guy I kissed was e7 maybe w8.

    It was fun... until it was a disaster.

    What is Jock doing liking this post for get out!!!


    Okay I came back because I was thinking you might not have understood my joke.


    gromit...I would be super interested in hearing your story in great detail if you feel comfortable sharing. Again...I think it would be super insightful.
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  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I maintain an ongoing awareness and have from a very young age...of how strongly I feel the game is wrong. Of how horrifying it is for me when I allow myself to consider it... instead of scrambling to find some meaningless distraction because I just can't take thinking of it again in those moments. No matter what I do I maintain a constant awareness that one of the countless rewards people receive for playing the game is being able to advance their positions through the exploitation of others...all while believing in their own righteousness (I'm still haunted by a conversation I had with a banker...2nd in charge or whatever you say directly under the CEO... and one of the first things he said to me was that he "got into banking because he really wanted to help people." To which I did an eyeroll in my mind thinking it was a social line I was merely supposed to pretend was true. As he went on though... it suddenly struck me in what remains one of the most horrifying moments of my entire life... He wasn't knowingly exploiting people and just didn't care... Nor was he merely in a tiny bit of denial but under different circumstances would admit to the truth of it... Oh no, this banker had come to BELIEVE IT. This banker had completely convinced himself he was a righteous individual. I was in awe thinking... "Oh wow...so you're really enjoying life. He is a humanitarian enjoying the multi-millions he's earned through his charitable work. I can't even...)
    I'm of the opinion that we're all deluded to some extent, but it seems some people's delusion reward them a gift. While others... well, flounder about. Maybe it's just not as visible or readily valued (that would be the optimist in me).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hijynx View Post
    I'm of the opinion that we're all deluded to some extent, but it seems some people's delusion reward them a gift. While others... well, flounder about. Maybe it's just not as visible or readily valued (that would be the optimist in me).
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    wow he's a 478? awesome. do you know his MBTI type as well?

    in that sense, yes it would be amazing to be an authority, to serve a cause. but i don't think i have it in me...

    so...you wrote those type descriptions? are you a 478 too?


    I'm very systematic in the way I handle my responses - just wanted you to know that pink.


    Che is pretty much universally recognized in MBTI-land as having been ENFP. Or at least he is one individual that stands out to me in that I've never seen him typed otherwise. I've never seen a person contest ENFP.

    I've never encountered much on his e-type. I've seen Elfboy type him as 8 which immediately rules out 8. haha. Whenever it comes up and it's a bit rare that it does...but just through forum interaction it seems the consensus is 7w6 and cp <-when the person is familiar with cp wings. And I am in total agreement with that.

    I've seen lesser still on Che's tritype haha. No, I simply believe he was a 478 merely because I believe he had a cp wing and 478 is where that would manifest itself...but truly believe I'm the only person in the universe to have suggested such a thing.

    And yes, I'm 478 or 748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    haha Umm...okay. I just spent 5 minutes (or more because I kinda lost track of time)... in 'OMG this is the coolest everland!' because what I thought you were expressing at the end there was that *I* wasn't a 7. And I was so excited because I thought with you, chubber...Azure Flame who typed me ENFJ/INFJ... which, to be fair, that is how I test in his system...and Zarathustra who recently said I was e4 which may have been a joke but I was still going to count him...

    I thought I had finally accumulated enough doubt for my very own 'Type Me' thread!...and so I was just day-dreaming/imagining all the fun of it...until it finally clicked in my mind what you were really saying haha. <-And if you want to think any part of that story was exaggerated for affect...I am so totally okay with that haha. I would encourage that line of thought.
    Oh Starry you don't need doubt to make a type me thread, the most important part is creating a clever title, the rest is just icing on top. Though your position as alpha seven would probably equate to several pages worth of you-are-the-most-seven-whoever-sevened. Or alternatively a cage fight if some disagree........... you should make one.

    All of your posts in this thread have been so meaningful to me - I'm not really sure I'd be capapble of expressing properly just how much. And I know from all the 'Secret-7 Society' transmissions I receive in total and complete secret...that I'm not the only 7 that feels this same way. This last post I recently responded to in a time-sensitive way though...this most recent exchange... I almost feel like... okay, I'm worried now that I won't figure out how to say what I very much want to say here.
    Well I really would hate to disappoint the e7 hivemind.

    The kind of 7 you described in your post... I look to those 7s for wisdom... I admire those 7s. That's the kind of 7 I want to be...or at the very least should strive to be for my own wellbeing... when I grow up. Like, I feel you were describing someone like Lady_X ...well okay maybe not as she's a lot like me just smart enough to keep it behind the scenes so I'm going to unmention her. Okay...I'm going to try and stop myself from attempting to come-up with a forum example... Of the 7s here that I know enough about to feel comfortable using as an example probably Lady_X and @five sounds best fit what you describe. They see the game all around them and are undaunted by it...they stay their happy course. <-Unfortunately, I can't claim to be like them in this sane, healthy, inspirational-to-others regard.
    Now I shall endeavour to explain how you are that way, and yet not. It kind of surprises me you don't seem to see it in yourself. An analogy perhaps, Imagine social contructs or game as a complicated engine overseen by various engineers. What e7s seem to do is well; throw wrenches at those engineers heads. Everyone stops and notices when they do it, a catalyst to shake structures. You do this as well, your arms might shake, and fear rise in your gullet, but all everyone else sees is the moment that wrench meets a head. Admittedly knowing and being dauntless makes all of this easier and probably more frequent. But from your presence on the forum alone, I can say you seem to throw one hell of a wrench.

    ^^In what were originally Arcana's soulful, eloquent words that senza later poached and is subsequently plagiarizing above... Whether she was aware of it or not Arcana was describing me. That's me. And while I'd probably give an arm and part of my liver for some poor drunk to be indifferent to the game...I need to confess that I am decidedly not so (do you need both arms to 'shrug off the game'?...or is it possible to shrug and people will still understand what's being communicated one-armedly...I may need to switch out a limb.)

    I maintain an ongoing awareness and have from a very young age...of how strongly I feel the game is wrong. Of how horrifying it is for me when I allow myself to consider it... instead of scrambling to find some meaningless distraction because I just can't take thinking of it again in those moments. No matter what I do I maintain a constant awareness that one of the countless rewards people receive for playing the game is being able to advance their positions through the exploitation of others...all while believing in their own righteousness (I'm still haunted by a conversation I had with a banker...2nd in charge or whatever you say directly under the CEO... and one of the first things he said to me was that he "got into banking because he really wanted to help people." To which I did an eyeroll in my mind thinking it was a social line I was merely supposed to pretend was true. As he went on though... it suddenly struck me in what remains one of the most horrifying moments of my entire life... He wasn't knowingly exploiting people and just didn't care... Nor was he merely in a tiny bit of denial but under different circumstances would admit to the truth of it... Oh no, this banker had come to BELIEVE IT. This banker had completely convinced himself he was a righteous individual. I was in awe thinking... "Oh wow...so you're really enjoying life. He is a humanitarian enjoying the multi-millions he's earned through his charitable work. I can't even...)
    Well everyone believes themselves the hero of their own story. Yeah unless he worked specifically on low interest loans for low income houses, micro-loans in developing countries, or IMF then a tad ridiculous.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to be a downer...I'm just mentioning the me's because most of the me's out there are typed as 4s. There's clearly a happier thing going on when you're indifferent rather than rejecting the game.
    I've always enjoyed your bite personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    @Dr Mobius

    totally missed an important part of what I wanted to express...I am not with it. I know you would still give me the badass cred. and it is meaningful to me because I also maintain an ongoing awareness of what I lose by not playing. Not a lot of people give compliments for this kind of thing and to find someone that does is the most valuable treasure.


    Oh and do you truly consider yourself a 9?
    Someone suggested it awhile back, so I decided to try it on for size. Break preconceptions and see what fell out. I'm not convinced I have the self honesty necessary to get it right.
    At the time they cut me free. I was brimming with defiance. Doctors looking down on me. Breaking every law of science.
    How'd I ever end up here? A latent strain of color blindness. Then it seemed to dawn on me. Haemoglobin is the key

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I'm very systematic in the way I handle my responses - just wanted you to know that pink.


    Che is pretty much universally recognized in MBTI-land as having been ENFP. Or at least he is one individual that stands out to me in that I've never seen him typed otherwise. I've never seen a person contest ENFP.

    I've never encountered much on his e-type. I've seen Elfboy type him as 8 which immediately rules out 8. haha. Whenever it comes up and it's a bit rare that it does...but just through forum interaction it seems the consensus is 7w6 and cp <-when the person is familiar with cp wings. And I am in total agreement with that.

    I've seen lesser still on Che's tritype haha. No, I simply believe he was a 478 merely because I believe he had a cp wing and 478 is where that would manifest itself...but truly believe I'm the only person in the universe to have suggested such a thing.

    And yes, I'm 478 or 748
    Thanks for this reply. Just one thing please: What Is a counterphobic wing? I thought it was only valid for type 6. I find it interesting because I find something familiar between me and che (i really didnt mean to sound self-aggrandizing here).
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