[Type 7] The Wisdom of the Enneagram Seven

[Forever]

Definitely prefer the w6 over 8.

7w6 > 4dw > 9 (no wing)

 

[Starry]

I was super impressed with [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION]'s and Brain in a Jar's straight-forward interpretations of the 7w6 and 7w8 from yesterday. Thank you for them.

A 7w6 will seek other peoples approval more hence the clown comparison as the 7w6 I think subconsciously seeks security by wanting to be entertaining...

^I know I've mentioned this before but from like 6th - 11th grade... every year I won something like "Funniest Girl" in the school which always earned me something massive like a printed or handmade certificate saying so. My senior year of high school though...that's where I finally hit the big time and was voted the Homecoming Court Jester. <-Which at the time was "just a thing"...until it became a *big ass thing* to my Mom holy fuck (it is not that I didn't appreciate it really...I was just lost in my own world and I guess so-last).

On the night they made these announcements and we were to ride on floats in a parade...


My high school was big and made-up of students from all walks...and yet my male jester counterpart was an Italian boy I had known since childhood. The fact I still know him today I know that he is also EP and e7w6...interesting. On the night they made these announcements and we were to ride on floats in a parade... my Mom had invited what would probably look and feel like the entire cast of "My Big, Fat, Greek Wedding" to most of you...my family...they were all there having driven down from the pre-party at the house my Mom had put together....?

When it came time to actually get on the jester float (fortunately it was last in line)...my co-jester childhood friend completely flipped out and wouldn't do it...nor would he let me on...in fact he literally yanked me by the arm off the steps of it having started by helping me get on with my long dress. He was so drunk yes. And had in that moment decided the two of us were too good to ride that float...we were better than the float and the stupid jester hats we were expected to wear... "No one knows we're smart Starry...they just think we're clowns!!! We are not clowns we are very intelligent and no one knows!!! They will laugh at us...we aren't circus monkeys!! All we are to them are clowns!!" <-As long as I live I will never forget this. He was in a total drunk paranoid panic and would not let me on that float...he physically prevented me from it because we were better than that. The impact this has had on my thinking and life can not be underestimated.


[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION]

I'm trying to access things inside of me and am struggling some. Talk to me about Brain in a Jar's quote I posted... what do you think of it?...what is your experience with it? I have my own ideas but feel it might be helpful if I hear yours first. I would appreciate it so much.

edit: whoops...obviously you can send me a PM if you want.

edit2: I should probably include the end of the story...

I convinced him we both had to do it for Mama (my Mama) and so he finally did.

 

[draon9]

7w6 are a bit more people oriented than 7w8 and 7w8 seems more a bit by themselves

 

[Dreamer]

I was super impressed with [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION]'s and Brain in a Jar's straight-forward interpretations of the 7w6 and 7w8 from yesterday. Thank you for them.




^I know I've mentioned this before but from like 6th - 11th grade... every year I won something like "Funniest Girl" in the school which always earned me something massive like a printed or handmade certificate saying so. My senior year of high school though...that's where I finally hit the big time and was voted the Homecoming Court Jester. <-Which at the time was "just a thing"...until it became a *big ass thing* to my Mom holy fuck (it is not that I didn't appreciate it really...I was just lost in my own world and I guess so-last).

On the night they made these announcements and we were to ride on floats in a parade...


My high school was big and made-up of students from all walks...and yet my male jester counterpart was an Italian boy I had known since childhood. The fact I still know him today I know that he is also EP and e7w6...interesting. On the night they made these announcements and we were to ride on floats in a parade... my Mom had invited what would probably look and feel like the entire cast of "My Big, Fat, Greek Wedding" to most of you...my family...they were all there having driven down from the pre-party at the house my Mom had put together....?

When it came time to actually get on the jester float (fortunately it was last in line)...my co-jester childhood friend completely flipped out and wouldn't do it...nor would he let me on...in fact he literally yanked me by the arm off the steps of it having started by helping me get on with my long dress. He was so drunk yes. And had in that moment decided the two of us were too good to ride that float...we were better than the float and the stupid jester hats we were expected to wear... "No one knows we're smart Starry...they just think we're clowns!!! We are not clowns we are very intelligent and no one knows!!! They will laugh at us...we aren't circus monkeys!! All we are to them are clowns!!" <-As long as I live I will never forget this. He was in a total drunk paranoid panic and would not let me on that float...he physically prevented me from it because we were better than that. The impact this has had on my thinking and life can not be underestimated.


[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION]

I'm trying to access things inside of me and am struggling some. Talk to me about Brain in a Jar's quote I posted... what do you think of it?...what is your experience with it? I have my own ideas but feel it might be helpful if I hear yours first. I would appreciate it so much.

edit: whoops...obviously you can send me a PM if you want.

edit2: I should probably include the end of the story...

I convinced him we both had to do it for Mama (my Mama) and so he finally did.

I must say Starry, first of all, thank you for such gracious words. I don't mean to sound superfluous, nor do I ever when I give thanks, particularly when someone commends me on an area I feel reflects some modicum of intelligence. You see, I too have a sore spot when it comes to being seen as anything more than the goofy kid, the jokester, and such. I definitely have my more serious moments with people, but I've never been all that great at spelling, nor grammar, nor any other quantifiable measure of standard intelligence as seen in most school systems. Whatever intelligence I do have, I keep private since I've never been confident enough to put it out there. I can't believe I am exposing this side of me either as a part of me fears I am exposing an area of myself someone could very easily attack, and penetrate deeply. But I say all this because your story hit very close to home for me, and whether you intended to or not, I feel I've just been granted access to another side of Starry, and one that I appreciate being given the opportunity to see.

 

[five sounds]

I am brewing up some shit in my brain rn. I shall deficate it publically soon.

Full orchestra: *cliff hanger mystery music*

 

[Starry]

I must say Starry, first of all, thank you for such gracious words. I don't mean to sound superfluous, nor do I ever when I give thanks, particularly when someone commends me on an area I feel reflects some modicum of intelligence. You see, I too have a sore spot when it comes to being seen as anything more than the goofy kid, the jokester, and such. I definitely have my more serious moments with people, but I've never been all that great at spelling, nor grammar, nor any other quantifiable measure of standard intelligence as seen in most school systems. Whatever intelligence I do have, I keep private since I've never been confident enough to put it out there. I can't believe I am exposing this side of me either as a part of me fears I am exposing an area of myself someone could very easily attack, and penetrate deeply. But I say all this because your story hit very close to home for me, and whether you intended to or not, I feel I've just been granted access to another side of Starry, and one that I appreciate being given the opportunity to see.

Thank you Dreamer for this message.

Yah, that was a very confusing experience and having someone share it with me on the level that you are is meaningful. The thought that my value was limited to the amusement of others (I've told five sounds a few times now that when it comes to others I have often felt that all I had to offer is *this personality*) was nothing new to me. I remember very clearly being amazed...shocked almost at having been told I was intelligent. I needed to focus entirely on getting my co-jester on that damn float...but I kept wanting to stop and ask..."So you think I'm smart?" It was the first time someone outside of my family had ever suggested such a thing...and a couple of years prior to a university prof basically forcing me to go and get myself tested out of all my low level courses...which also earned me my inattentive ADD diagnosis...so yah life has always been very confusing whenever I allow it to break through the Ne barrier.

Ultimately, I need to discuss these things because I'm starting to question again the value in letting life break through the Ne barrier. Thanks for helping me here.

- - - Updated - - -

I am brewing up some shit in my brain rn. I shall deficate it publically soon.

Full orchestra: *cliff hanger mystery music*

Damn this is going to be so good...I feel it

 

[Starry]

We are all going to die, but that's fine.
View attachment 16598

I haven't been through this in a while. I wish I would have seen this sooner. Look at those beautiful eyes.


You also seem dressed-up in this...in kinda a fresh, modern Southern Kernel Sanders style...I fucking love it.

 

[Starry]

Nothing matters, but that is a good thing, even though good and bad are the same. Its hard to explain. Everything and everyone is one. Everyone and everything are the same.

flashin the e5

It is the simple things that are most profound.

^show off

 

[Starry]

me @ my escapism

The first few notes in this song made me feel weird. I'll try again in a few minutes.

 

[Dreamer]

Thank you Dreamer for this message.

Yah, that was a very confusing experience and having someone share it with me on the level that you are is meaningful. The thought that my value was limited to the amusement of others (I've told five sounds a few times now that when it comes to others I have often felt that all I had to offer is *this personality*) was nothing new to me. I remember very clearly being amazed...shocked almost at having been told I was intelligent. I needed to focus entirely on getting my co-jester on that damn float...but I kept wanting to stop and ask..."So you think I'm smart?" It was the first time someone outside of my family had ever suggested such a thing...and a couple of years prior to a university prof basically forcing me to go and get myself tested out of all my low level courses...which also earned me my inattentive ADD diagnosis...so yah life has always been very confusing whenever I allow it to break through the Ne barrier.

Ultimately, I need to discuss these things because I'm starting to question again the value in letting life break through the Ne barrier. Thanks for helping me here.

- - - Updated - - -




Damn this is going to be so good...I feel it

Hmm, I'd be interested in seeing how a simple parallel between us, may have ultimately played out in very different ways in our lives, that parallel being that I too was only diagnosed with ADHD (the combined variant) in grad school, so I had plenty years of self doubt and stewing in self criticism. Though, attempting to draw such ideas from our stories would require a level of openness and vulnerability, so we don't have to go there. But it was a thought that came to mind.

I'm curious what you mean by the "Ne barrier"? In my particular situation, or the way I reacted to my school yard treatment, meant removing Ne almost entirely from my interactions with others. I'd still have an outlet though, and that was through my art, thank God for art! But I pulled myself inward and found my comfort zone in my Fi. I think ultimately, this plays out in a sort of 9-ish tendency and need, to protect my emotions from the external as much as possible, since, internally, it was already being battered left and right.

Well shoot, I went ahead and went deep anyways. But please don't feel a need to share your story. Looking back on my story, I really don't carry any regret or shame, and is probably why I can be so candid about it.

 

[Avocado]

flashin the e5





^show off

I still have mood-swings, though.

 

[five sounds]

thank you [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] for including me in this discussion. like really, so much. i think you've hit on some real unspoken pain that is packed tight in that 7w6 clown car.

starting with [MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION]'s flash of single-lined brilliance, i was thinking of what it means to have a 6-wing. enneagram 6 - Basic Fear: Of being without support and guidance -- Basic Desire: To have security and support. adding this to core 7's natural drive to replace the hurt with happy, it makes a hell of a lot of sense that we'd be inclined toward unconsciously replacing anything mundane or otherwise unpleasant (this is another thing, the idea of banality being on par with actual pain. i think it's why we thrived as clowns in school: the pinnacle of droning routine purgatory) with something a little more FUN. if we can be entertaining, we can both escape boredom torture and also free others from it all at once. this is survival. it's like we're the little drummer boy and all we have to offer is our ability to *dazzle* or *snarkily quip* our way out of a paper bag and we're really hoping baby Jesus likes it or we're fucked.

this is something we can use when we have to for others. it feels cheap to me every time. like when i'm bar tending and say the world's cheesiest shit just to get a cheap disarmed half grin, i turn around and think, "who tf am i?" but honestly, it helps me in two ways.
1) i get a kick out of being silly either way, which is a HUGE way i deal with daily life. like even alone, i'm making jokes and funny observations or associations to entertain myself. my mom always said i played alone great as a kid, especially in front of a mirror. just making myself laugh and singing to myself, etc.
2) it's disarming, which causes connection, which results in people liking you, which results in having security and support. again, it's already a strength cuz it's how we make ourselves like life, so it's only natural that we pull that out first when trying to connect with and establish a sense of security among others.

and now is where i tell you that i was "Spirit Queen" (which is the award given to the person in the class that dresses up for "spirit week" - like decades day, crazy hair day, etc etc - with the highest degree of ridiculosity) all four years in high school. for decades day, my ESTP friend and i were a pilgrim couple one year. it was NOT something i campaigned for or even had a say in, and while it was cute and fun the first one, two times MAX, it got VERY uncomfortable after that. like uhh, thanks? like normally i have to wear a fucking uniform to school and i hate my life so if you tell me i can dress up weird i am going to troll that shit so hard just for the lols.

in a lot of ways it is trolling. that's why we know "we're better than that." like i'm just trying to share a subversive giggle with some chums here, please don't give me a damn crown for it.

but i can tell you that every single deep dark place i've ever been in. the worst ones. that's the demon. nobody values you beyond being fun and charming. you are a two-dimensional trope to them. "but do you think i'm smart?" is a phrase i've spoken more than once. it's that feeling that everyone likes you but no body knows you. and then when you stop feeling sorry for yourself, and consider how you could become more *seen* for your true value, you realize you kinda don't know how to go there. i just wrote about that yesterday in my blog. it's very unnatural feeling and difficult for me to drop the Ne. and when i do, it's decidedly unsmooth. just a month ago probably i was sobbing over feeling like i wasn't seen as creative or intelligent and would never be able to express myself artistically or in an intellectually satisfying way...because it's underdeveloped...because no one will take me seriously on that level...cuz they just see my as fun but don't see the hidden genius behind it...*gasp* *snort* *blow nose* i started my period the next day, but nevertheless, my dramatized feelings were authentic.

 

[Starry]

Hmm, I'd be interested in seeing how a simple parallel between us, may have ultimately played out in very different ways in our lives, that parallel being that I too was only diagnosed with ADHD (the combined variant) in grad school, so I had plenty years of self doubt and stewing in self criticism. Though, attempting to draw such ideas from our stories would require a level of openness and vulnerability, so we don't have to go there. But it was a thought that came to mind.

I'm curious what you mean by the "Ne barrier"? In my particular situation, or the way I reacted to my school yard treatment, meant removing Ne almost entirely from my interactions with others. I'd still have an outlet though, and that was through my art, thank God for art! But I pulled myself inward and found my comfort zone in my Fi. I think ultimately, this plays out in a sort of 9-ish tendency and need, to protect my emotions from the external as much as possible, since, internally, it was already being battered left and right.

Well shoot, I went ahead and went deep anyways. But please don't feel a need to share your story. Looking back on my story, I really don't carry any regret or shame, and is probably why I can be so candid about it.

I don't mind this at all. Ask me anything you would like and I will feel fortunate for the opportunity to answer.


Ne barrier... I mean, Ne can very easily transport you to a better place...a happier place. Some people might put this place down...calling it an imaginary land of imaginary forest creatures and enchantment but you know...the way I see it is I gave reality a shot and everyone sucks so I'm going back. Peace.

I'll see if I can find a better way to explain this...but wanted to tell you immediately that I appreciate your question.

 

[Starry]

I still have mood-swings, though.

I think I just realized why I'm blocked on answering the Ne barrier question... it is because in order to explain it in a current language where you will be readily understood... I will need to use words that I feel have a negative connotation that I don't feel is reflective of what I value or is misunderstood for various reasons.

Anyway, it is not having mood swings as much as it is what you do when you have them.

 

[Avocado]

I think I just realized why I'm blocked on answering the Ne barrier question... it is because in order to explain it in a current language where you will be readily understood... I will need to use words that I feel have a negative connotation that I don't feel is reflective of what I value or is misunderstood for various reasons.

Anyway, it is not having mood swings as much as it is what you do when you have them.

I used to self criticize. Now, I destroy everybody who gets between me and what I want. No quarter.

 

[Dreamer]

I don't mind this at all. Ask me anything you would like and I will feel fortunate for the opportunity to answer.


Ne barrier... I mean, Ne can very easily transport you to a better place...a happier place. Some people might put this place down...calling it an imaginary land of imaginary forest creatures and enchantment but you know...the way I see it is I gave reality a shot and everyone sucks so I'm going back. Peace.

I'll see if I can find a better way to explain this...but wanted to tell you immediately that I appreciate your question.

Thanks Starry! I know many people here may shy away from revealing anything more personal than superficial pleasantries, so I didn't want to poke and prod without first checking in. It actually wasn't until a few members brought it to my attention that I do tend to dive deep into the emotions of others if given the opportunity to do so, that I was even aware I did that Thing is, I don't think I do this specifically to get to know that particular individual more, though that is a plus, but I find emotion the stuff of magic, so learning more of its intricacies and nuances through exploring not only myself, but others as well, continues to lure me in.

As for the Ne barrier, no further explanation is necessary, I totally get what you mean by that now. Ne is a fun place to be indeed. Usually my mind will take me to far better places when my external environment gets too droll. Thanks to this, people not only thought my jokes were bizarre, but I also burst out laughing to myself because of a passing imagination, usually involving the environment around me, and whoopdie do, more strange faces pointed towards me now. I tended to escape to this place out of boredom usually, but other times, to emotionally heal. Over time, I had built this entire environment in my head, landscape, creatures, all cast below moonlight, and that would be my refuge where I sit, in my mind, until all is right with the world again. I think with all this isolation and time to myself with my emotions, is why I sometimes look into INFP as a potential typing. Heck, I identify with the Fi subtype more than the Ne subtype for IEE too!

Actually, question I just thought of, not sure where this came from, but I presume a soreness still lingers regarding people not taking your word for anything other than comical relief, which is why those words of your high school friend stood out to you so much and still hold enough weight for you to keep it shallow in memory to bring up, but is this something that is hurtful not necessarily because of how people see you, but because of how you see yourself? Well, perhaps how you saw yourself back then. You may have come to terms with this area these days, but are you ever taken immediately back to those precise emotions when someone says something to you, that you feel is a reminder alluding to that period in your life? So, in a way, it's almost like you can't escape this past because it keeps surfacing through these reminders. Having such emotional histories, I would imagine, may be confusing as I feel you are confident in yourself these days, and it shows on the forum but then you ask yourself, why would this pop up if it no longer affects me as it once did, and this disjointed parallel between two versions of you sits at this intersection.

I hope that just made sense. I tend to visualize my explorations as I think of them and I cannot always translate this directly to words unfortunately.

Ugh...that rollercoaster just went off the rails Feel free to say Dreamer, fuck off with your crazy assumptions haha.

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION]


You are the Spirit Queen of the entire world.

 

[HongDou]

The first few notes in this song made me feel weird. I'll try again in a few minutes.

lol it's not really that relevant. you know i'll reach and contort my whole body to make references to whatever music i'm into at the time.

 

[Starry]

thank you [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] for including me in this discussion. like really, so much. i think you've hit on some real unspoken pain that is packed tight in that 7w6 clown car.

starting with [MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION]'s flash of single-lined brilliance, i was thinking of what it means to have a 6-wing. enneagram 6 - Basic Fear: Of being without support and guidance -- Basic Desire: To have security and support. adding this to core 7's natural drive to replace the hurt with happy, it makes a hell of a lot of sense that we'd be inclined toward unconsciously replacing anything mundane or otherwise unpleasant (this is another thing, the idea of banality being on par with actual pain. i think it's why we thrived as clowns in school: the pinnacle of droning routine purgatory) with something a little more FUN. if we can be entertaining, we can both escape boredom torture and also free others from it all at once. this is survival. it's like we're the little drummer boy and all we have to offer is our ability to *dazzle* or *snarkily quip* our way out of a paper bag and we're really hoping baby Jesus likes it or we're fucked.


this is something we can use when we have to for others. it feels cheap to me every time. like when i'm bar tending and say the world's cheesiest shit just to get a cheap disarmed half grin, i turn around and think, "who tf am i?" but honestly, it helps me in two ways.
1) i get a kick out of being silly either way, which is a HUGE way i deal with daily life. like even alone, i'm making jokes and funny observations or associations to entertain myself. my mom always said i played alone great as a kid, especially in front of a mirror. just making myself laugh and singing to myself, etc.
2) it's disarming, which causes connection, which results in people liking you, which results in having security and support. again, it's already a strength cuz it's how we make ourselves like life, so it's only natural that we pull that out first when trying to connect with and establish a sense of security among others.

and now is where i tell you that i was "Spirit Queen" (which is the award given to the person in the class that dresses up for "spirit week" - like decades day, crazy hair day, etc etc - with the highest degree of ridiculosity) all four years in high school. for decades day, my ESTP friend and i were a pilgrim couple one year. it was NOT something i campaigned for or even had a say in, and while it was cute and fun the first one, two times MAX, it got VERY uncomfortable after that. like uhh, thanks? like normally i have to wear a fucking uniform to school and i hate my life so if you tell me i can dress up weird i am going to troll that shit so hard just for the lols.

in a lot of ways it is trolling. that's why we know "we're better than that." like i'm just trying to share a subversive giggle with some chums here, please don't give me a damn crown for it.

but i can tell you that every single deep dark place i've ever been in. the worst ones. that's the demon. nobody values you beyond being fun and charming. you are a two-dimensional trope to them. "but do you think i'm smart?" is a phrase i've spoken more than once. it's that feeling that everyone likes you but no body knows you. and then when you stop feeling sorry for yourself, and consider how you could become more *seen* for your true value, you realize you kinda don't know how to go there. i just wrote about that yesterday in my blog. it's very unnatural feeling and difficult for me to drop the Ne. and when i do, it's decidedly unsmooth. just a month ago probably i was sobbing over feeling like i wasn't seen as creative or intelligent and would never be able to express myself artistically or in an intellectually satisfying way...because it's underdeveloped...because no one will take me seriously on that level...cuz they just see my as fun but don't see the hidden genius behind it...*gasp* *snort* *blow nose* i started my period the next day, but nevertheless, my dramatized feelings were authentic.

I have no problem entertaining the idea that what we call 'Typology' doesn't actually exist and at some point in the future we will better understand what we are seeing here... All I would need would be for someone to explain *this* to me. Tell me, show me that *this* doesn't exist as its own phenomenon. Because...I've met a lot of people I relate to over the years. I've met people with very similar lives and experiences...and will feel very connected and on the same page when discussing our lives and experiences. And then there's *this*.

I have wondered what it looks like from the outside. I would think people would see us as being different although I couldn't guess as to how much. But I know...and I know that you know...that I'm getting every single word of this. I hear how each note hits... (lol clown car at the very beginning)...I would have said the same exact thing in the same exact way had you simply caught me on a different day in a different mood. Perhaps what we call "Typology" is actually...or merely means we both came from the same other world


I had forgotten how many components make up this one over-arching behavior and I am so grateful to you because you managed to capture and subsequently remind me of them. Returning to BiaJ's stunning work here...

A 7w6 will seek other peoples approval more hence the clown comparison as the 7w6 I think subconsciously seeks security by wanting to be entertaining.

^Neither of us have discussed this but because we come from the same other world...I know and I know you know...that there is something ever-so-slightly off with regards to the above...and I'll just toss in that it is interesting that BiaJ reminds me of The Great One...and while I tried to convince TGO that he was 7w6 he absolutely insisted he was 6w7 and this is something that makes me think he could have been right.

7s begin Life believing everyone already has everyone else's approval. We are born loving everyone and believe everyone loves us in return. We believe everyone has something to offer you just need to discover what it is. And we were not given the Life memo regarding all the fucked-up people and fucked-up things that were going to try and take all of that happiness away from us each and every minute of each and every day.

A lot of the "entertaining" I do is to keep people at arm's length because I'm afraid but I can't access what it is that I'm truly afraid of. As the clown you are in control of it all...if we want...we can always call on the right thing to say (if Fi is not engaged)...and escape or be passed over...and it is 100% survival. But from what...pain?

I have become confused with regards to what is the cause and what is the effect for us? Many people like us but no one knows us. I feel like I want people to know me but do I really? I'm scared that deep down I don't want people's approval...that's my fear...like so long ago my trust was broken...and I haven't truly wanted people's approval all along...I just want to continue to stay safe in the future until I can return to the other world you and I came from.

 

[Starry]

I used to self criticize. Now, I destroy everybody who gets between me and what I want. No quarter.

NF male is a shitty lot... Bring it in

What does 'no quarter' mean...that sounds super badass I might start using that phrase myself...