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  1. #1
    Stansmith
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    Default Separating 4s from "artsy" types.

    4 vs. Artsy 9

    4s and artsy 9s can be quite similar in their interests, demeanor, and wardrobe (especially ISP 9s). However, the main difference I've observed is that 9s tend to have a more 'nihilistic', earthy outlook on life. They'll often be more content with sensual activities like sex, drugs, partying, having fun, smoking cigs, eating junkfood, etc. than most intuitive 4s (especially if the 9 is sexual-first), or at least the latter is less likely to really emphasize those experiences. 9s also seem to put less of a filter on their tastes and self-expression, often listening to a variety of different music genres and associating themselves with all kinds of different people and subcultures. 4s are generally selective and high-maintenence to some extent, while the 9w8 aesthetic is characterized by more of a youthful virility or 'spunk'. Mellower, less impulsive 9s will still have more of a contentness and lack of emotional emphasis when compared to 4s.

    On to the subject of music, many Sexual-9 songwriters have similar subject matter to 4s, but in some of the 9 lyrics I've listened to, you'll see more references to 'fucking' (and often drug use) than you'll see in 4 lyrics. 4 songwriters tend to gloss over sex completely, or only vaguely allude to it.



    I'll write a description on 4 vs. 6w7, 4 vs. Sexual-3w4, and perhaps 4 vs 7, later.

  2. #2
    Stansmith
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    4s vs. Sexual 3w4s




    To put it simply: the 4w3 wants to be a beautiful (and sexy) soul; the sexual 3w4 wants to be a sexy bitch.

    These two types are often confused for one another since sexual 3w4s are the most eccentric and self-indulgent of 3s. However, one significant difference is that the sexual 3w4 (specifically Sx/So) is closer to your classic 'diva' or narcissist than 4w3. Even when 4w3s are snobs, there's still a very conscious part of themselves that wishes they had more of a worldly humility (the Envy-authenticity dynamic). Average 3w4s however are generally unapologetic about their elitism, artifice and disdain towards those they consider inferior. They tend to change 'masks' or styles willingly over time, or convince themselves that they are whatever they're presenting without questioning it. Notice how David Bowie (3w4 Sx/So) had a variety of drastically different images throughout his career, while 4 artists like Morrissey, Prince, MJ, etc. have more-or-less stuck to the same 'persona' and aesthetic, with only minor, or more gradual changes (which probably reflect their own trials and tribulations). A 4's image is something they're emotionally attached to, while a 3's is somewhat dispensable if something more ideal catches their eye. Not to mention, 3w4s almost come off as robotic and automatic when compared to the more volatile, visibly intense 4w3s.

  3. #3
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    I've seen 4s being confused with arty 6w7s and 7w6s quite a bit. Six is the other emotionally reactive artsy-fartsy darkish type, but they don't the same emotional exuberance of a 4, it's more of an issue of perturbability for them.
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  4. #4
    brainheart
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    Are you going to get into artsy 5w4s, too? It seems like there's plenty of confusion between them and 4w5s.

  5. #5
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Are you going to get into artsy 5w4s, too? It seems like there's plenty of confusion between them and 4w5s.
    Yeah, I might. I've noticed 5w4 art (Lynch, Thom Yorke of Radiohead, Stanley Kubrick) tends to be more dissonant, detached and technical than 4w5 art, for one. 4w5 art has some of that (relative to 4w3), but 5w4 art seems more overtly nihilistic on the surface at times.
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  6. #6
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Yeah, I might. I've noticed 5w4 art (Lynch, Thom Yorke of Radiohead, Stanley Kubrick) tends to be more dissonant, detached and technical than 4w5 art, for one. 4w5 art has some of that (relative to 4w3), but 5w4 art seems more overtly nihilistic on the surface at times.
    I agree. 5w4 art is colder and less emotional, and they get far more into the technical. There's also an emphasis on the disturbing, but viewed from a detached observer vs someone who is mired in it. I think that's a big part of the appeal of film to the 5w4. It's easier to detach when you're behind the camera. Meanwhile, the 4 will be slopping around in it. This isn't to imply there aren't 4 filmmakers, because there definitely are. (Tarkovsky, Bergman, for example.) Their films are a lot more about emotion/personal exploration rather than the fear/detachment of the 5. I lean toward 5w4 for Lars Von Trier, primarily because of his sadistic edge. 5w4 filmmakers often have more of a puppet maker pulling the strings feel to them.

    It is a spectrum, as you say. 4w5 will seem 5-ish to 4w3, and 4w3 will seem 3-ish to 4w5.
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  7. #7
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Did someone say artsy 9?
    {The Diplomat}
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  8. #8
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Yeah, I might. I've noticed 5w4 art (Lynch, Thom Yorke of Radiohead, Stanley Kubrick) tends to be more dissonant, detached and technical than 4w5 art, for one. 4w5 art has some of that (relative to 4w3), but 5w4 art seems more overtly nihilistic on the surface at times.
    Lynch is typed as social 9 by many people on Enneagram Institute forum. I've thought he was e4 previously, but looking through more of his vids 9 works better for him.

    9s often have a rich mental landscape that rivals that of 4s (no wonder they get take for each other so often).
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