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Thread: Supervising 6's

  1. #31
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I don't think there is a METHOD to leadership. I think leadership is as simple as loving your subordinates. In other words, you give them what they need, not necessarily what they want. Sometimes the hard part is figuring out what it is they actually need.
    Caring about people and doing what you suggest are both very important. I agree. However I assure you there are a number of different ways that people lead and there is also some science around this stuff on what works and what doesn't. A lot of it is innate but a lot of it a specific set of skills which often is developed through experience. Look for some stuff from the Center for Creative Leadership as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Otherwise, I noticed you have INTJ in your MBTI, and the only E6's I seem to run into difficulty with are 6's with Fi and Te. (gamma and delta E6's). Beta 6's do have the typical problems I associate with other 6's, but their skepticism has zero effect on me.
    What is this alpha, beta, gamma, delta thing? Not sure what you are referring to or what relevance it has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Caring about people and doing what you suggest are both very important. I agree. However I assure you there are a number of different ways that people lead and there is also some science around this stuff on what works and what doesn't. A lot of it is innate but a lot of it a specific set of skills which often is developed through experience. Look for some stuff from the Center for Creative Leadership as an example.


    What is this alpha, beta, gamma, delta thing? Not sure what you are referring to or what relevance it has.
    my bad, that's socionics.

    alpha is ntp sfj, beta is nfj stp, gamma is ntj sfp, and delta is stj nfp. Basically 4 clubhouses of identical thought. all 4 of the personalities contained in each quadra share the same value functions, and thus get offended over or enjoy similar things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Please don't take this offensively, but I think this is a very 8 point of view, and perhaps slanted by that.

    It's curious that you're worried about others hunting you but to protect yourself, you threaten others.

    I don't deny that it probably works but I do think it probably has some unintended negative consequences.
    Yes. The side effect is that I have hate groups following me. The reason I know its not a big deal is because, people who hate me are usually easy to defend against. Its the social ninja assassin 2's and 3's I've recently come to abhor, who don't let you know how they really feel about you until after they stabbed the big target on your back.

  4. #34
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Are you sure they want comfort? I vent (ok, whine) a lot, but I don't want comfort at all. I'd rather not have it, actually. Just a bad habit.

    edit: actually thinking about it again, it seems more likely that they're complaining to you as the boss about real problems that they'd like you to fix (like not having enough people for X task or whatever), not looking for emotional support. It's obviously your job/privilege to determine which complaints you want to ignore vs. try to resolve, but I wouldn't dismiss them outright.
    -end of thread-

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    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    One of the most aggravating aspects of leadership is dealing with e6 skepticism. Most of the time it just infuriates me to where I have to raise my voice. Its been this way for YEARS! I feel like there are a lot of people who just try to get a rise out of me and don't respect me until I shout at them *ahem... entj's.*
    No, you're getting it wrong: we honestly disagree, but stop when people start shouting or asserting themselves too strongly/loudly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, you're getting it wrong: we honestly disagree, but stop when people start shouting or asserting themselves too strongly/loudly.
    You're not referencing my (DJArendee's) behavior specifically are you?

    I suppose I can believe that. What I don't understand is why you would keep going when you know what you're doing isn't going to be taken very well... unless you're legitimately oblivious to the consequences of telling someone how to operate their life... or you are choosing to be vindictive.

  7. #37
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    my bad, that's socionics.

    alpha is ntp sfj, beta is nfj stp, gamma is ntj sfp, and delta is stj nfp. Basically 4 clubhouses of identical thought. all 4 of the personalities contained in each quadra share the same value functions, and thus get offended over or enjoy similar things.
    That is an interesting grouping. One of these days I'll have to learn something about socionics.

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  8. #38
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    So, I'm the ceo of a gym in charge of a gaggle of E6's.

    I'm wondering, is it my job to comfort them or not? Is it bad practice to allow someone to become dependent on you for support?

    these guys do awesome work but constantly complain about it, and when I ask them how its going they're completely negative to the point where it starts to rub off on me. I used to pump them up and make them feel better, but its completely draining for me to have to do that so often.

    I know its wiser to teach a man to fish, rather than to give a man a fish, so in this situation, how exactly do I teach the E6's how to fish for themselves instead of turn my office into the house of whining? I don't like the idea that I just kick them out and tell them "come back to me when its done and your attitude is better."
    I'm a ENTJ, E6. I work under an E8. I hate it. She is also a Perciever. (meaning she's got a p at the end of her 4 MBTI letters)

    She gives me no structure.

    I feel like 6's make shit happen and get shit done....especially if they like/trust you.

    The other side of that is...that 6's are just gonna vent and want to talk things through to blow off steam. Also they need pre-established procedures to go by. But then the 6 will know the rule book like the back of their hand.

    The problem I have with my supervisor ( I don't know if this matches your scenario) is that she needs to tell me her priorities. I can't just read her mind and know what's more important.

    Kinda gotta spell it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Well, mostly just how hard the task at hand is.

    him: "I'm gonna have to get everyone together by sunday, that's gonna be hard. the event is monday, and my girlfriend wants to do this on tuesday... *sigh* I guess this will work out *sad face slowly increases as he continues to ramble*"
    me: "what do you need help with?"
    him: "um... Idunno... I'm good I guess."

    In most situations I have to sit there and analyze their situation and then insert my own effort to help them do their job. Its draining to have to figure out what needs fixing and for them to not really know either. I'm a big believer in servant leadership, but there comes a point where I'm doing too much for them and really only exhausting myself.
    In this case I woulda said that stuff the E6 said too...from my pov that's not whining...but to an 8 it prolly is. I think they're talking it out and trying to figure out your priorities.

    Objective: get everyone together by Sunday

    but what I would be thinking is...what happens in the worst case scenario...meaning...what if I can't get everyone together by Sunday? Or what happens when whatever all the other problems that can occur...do occur. What gonna make you the happiest.

    What's your first priority? Then your next priority in line...and so on.

    My boss asked me to "do a training on ticket sales...in a week."

    That is all she fuckin said to me.

    She wouldn't let me ask her any questions either.

    Wtf is it supposed to look like? Who am I training? Does it need to be a certain format? blah, blah, blah.

    I need more of an outline than a damn deadline....

    I did the assignment and felt like shit the whole time cause there was no outline. I felt like it was gonna be wrong no matter what I did cause I can't read her mind.

    If you want them to provide their own structure cause it's draining you to figure out everything that needs fixing...then tell them... and let them come up with their own "worst case scenarios."

    But you have to be happy with whatever they bring you then, no matter what...and then tell them What and WHY it made you happy. That is how we learn your priorities.

    That and everything that @skylights said. Skylights always has the answer!
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I'm a ENTJ, E6. I work under an E8. I hate it. She is also a Perciever. (meaning she's got a p at the end of her 4 MBTI letters)

    She gives me no structure.

    I feel like 6's make shit happen and get shit done....especially if they like/trust you.

    The other side of that is...that 6's are just gonna vent and want to talk things through to blow off steam. Also they need pre-established procedures to go by. But then the 6 will know the rule book like the back of their hand.

    The problem I have with my supervisor ( I don't know if this matches your scenario) is that she needs to tell me her priorities. I can't just read her mind and know what's more important.

    Kinda gotta spell it out.



    In this case I woulda said that stuff the E6 said too...from my pov that's not whining...but to an 8 it prolly is. I think they're talking it out and trying to figure out your priorities.

    Objective: get everyone together by Sunday

    but what I would be thinking is...what happens in the worst case scenario...meaning...what if I can't get everyone together by Sunday? Or what happens when whatever all the other problems that can occur...do occur. What gonna make you the happiest.

    What's your first priority? Then your next priority in line...and so on.

    My boss asked me to "do a training on ticket sales...in a week."

    That is all she fuckin said to me.

    She wouldn't let me ask her any questions either.

    Wtf is it supposed to look like? Who am I training? Does it need to be a certain format? blah, blah, blah.

    I need more of an outline than a damn deadline....

    I did the assignment and felt like shit the whole time cause there was no outline. I felt like it was gonna be wrong no matter what I did cause I can't read her mind.

    If you want them to provide their own structure cause it's draining you to figure out everything that needs fixing...then tell them... and let them come up with their own "worst case scenarios."

    But you have to be happy with whatever they bring you then, no matter what...and then tell them What and WHY it made you happy. That is how we learn your priorities.

    That and everything that @skylights said. Skylights always has the answer!
    hmm. no structure huh?

    See, from my perspective, its not structure you are looking for, its micromanagement.

    I don't have time to give "structure." I have these guys calling me asking me what they're supposed to do. My answer, "Use my gym to start a business of your own."

    Perhaps the situation is slightly different. When I tell someone to start a business and they don't know what that means, I get frustrated.

  10. #40
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    hmm. no structure huh?

    See, from my perspective, its not structure you are looking for, its micromanagement.

    I don't have time to give "structure." I have these guys calling me asking me what they're supposed to do. My answer, "Use my gym to start a business of your own."

    Perhaps the situation is slightly different. When I tell someone to start a business and they don't know what that means, I get frustrated.
    LMAO....I'm sorry...I'm not trying to be a jerk...but I find it funny...cause I don't know what you mean.

    Do you mean that whatever they do is gonna be good enough?

    How do they know that their vision is your vision?

    Do you even have a vision about that particular thing?

    If someone was to say to me use my gym to start a business...I would ask them what kind of business? lol...

    I feel like as a 6 I go both ways....I can take charge or I can be subordinate.

    But it's one or the other...

    As an entj I wanna take initiative...but if you were to tell me that....it's like it takes all the initiative away.

    Ur putting labels and pressures still...I feel like...(I know its vague -> telling someone to start a business, but there's an underlying pressure a six has that says they gotta do this right)

    So what's the right way?

    Are you truly saying that there's no mistakes they can make?

    If so, tell them that.

    Tell them "I want this to be your baby, don't worry about doing anything the wrong way, have fun with it, and make it into something"
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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