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Thread: Supervising 6's

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yeah, this is a really good point. 3s and 8s especially tend to be pretty ego-forward and 6s tend to find that threatening, because it feels like infringement upon natural rights. I think the 6 mentality is more like you earn your title and respect by what you do.
    hmm, that makes a lot of sense. I personally have no problem when a boss tells me they are the boss. How else are you supposed to know who to go to for orders? There's no way around it. However, if I'm being insubordinate and a boss asserts their rank, its suddenly revealed to me that they feel powerless over me, as the only time someone would ever say that is out of last resort, because they obviously lack the fundamental respect required for leadership to be effective.

    In the military, rank is posted on your collar, so there's no real need to say "I'm in charge," as its there for all to see, shining brightly under the lights. I notice a lot of 6's used to just have this bad attitude of "look at you mr officer with your shiny stuff, you think you're hot shit?" and ultimately nothing was said to deserve that treatment.

    One of the most aggravating aspects of leadership is dealing with e6 skepticism. Most of the time it just infuriates me to where I have to raise my voice. Its been this way for YEARS! I feel like there are a lot of people who just try to get a rise out of me and don't respect me until I shout at them *ahem... entj's.*

  2. #22
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    I had a 6 assistant manager. Luckily he got promoted, and a gut type took his spot.

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    When I do get riled up over someone else's assertiveness, it's usually out of jealousy. I can't say I've reacted that way towards employers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I'm not sure why you'd interpret that as such. I'm smart enough to understand that the second you assert your rank is the second you lose respect, and I don't ever actually say "I'm the CEO, therefore do as I say." I do tell people I'm the owner because its important for everyone to know exactly what position they hold and what their responsibilities are. *shrugs*
    OK good - that wasn't clear based on your description.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Anyway most of the E6's are betas
    Do you equate beta with phobic? People act differently in different situations so I would be careful about arriving at conclusions there. If they are assertive enough to be vocal or complain, that might indicate otherwise. They might also be introverts intimidated by an an ESTP 8 that owns the place. Their job security is at stake.

    It sounds like you are objecting to the complaining and having to step in on trivial matters and help devise a solution. I can understand how that would be frustrating as that sort of thing drives me nuts. My approach (not necessarily the best one) is to spend time with them, ask questions, provide observations and suggest options without dictating what needs to be done. A lot things just get resolved by spending time talking to them as they are able to vent a little and think through how to resolve their own problems. I let them decide unless it's a really important decision in which case I will force a good dialogue on it and then decide. I listen a lot more than I talk. The questions are an important part of it because by doing that I think it can help the person or team think through a problem. I tend to push more and more responsibility on people over time - continually increasing set of expectations. Then they seem to grow from that. They reach a point where they don't need me so much any more though they seem to value my opinions/insights. That's an INTJ style of leadership though and what works for me may not work for you.

    6s don't seem any different to me than other types except for the annoying testing that you're still loyal to them. I will have to admit to using Enneagram a lot less in work situations than MBTI. I'm sure there is more that could be done with it. I've got an INFJ Enneagram 1 who isn't performing right now and trying to figure out what to do about that. She tends to complain a lot too. I am working on it and am optimistic that it will get better. It's like a challenge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    hmm, that makes a lot of sense. I personally have no problem when a boss tells me they are the boss. How else are you supposed to know who to go to for orders? There's no way around it. However, if I'm being insubordinate and a boss asserts their rank, its suddenly revealed to me that they feel powerless over me, as the only time someone would ever say that is out of last resort, because they obviously lack the fundamental respect required for leadership to be effective.
    Yeah, exactly.

    In the military, rank is posted on your collar, so there's no real need to say "I'm in charge," as its there for all to see, shining brightly under the lights. I notice a lot of 6's used to just have this bad attitude of "look at you mr officer with your shiny stuff, you think you're hot shit?" and ultimately nothing was said to deserve that treatment.
    Right. I think if somehow it could be demonstrated that those officers will use their power fairly, most 6s would have no problem with them. But leadership corrupts so, so many people. They get a little power and they start using it to their own ends instead of to the benefit of everyone. That is the #1 problem I have with authority, that they don't use their power fairly or responsibly. For example, I respect my manager much more than my immediate supervisor because the manager is an asshole, but he works hard, whereas the supervisor is nicer but he's much more self-serving and takes care of himself before anyone else.

    Though I would say it is unlike a 6 to call someone out only because they are higher-ranking. 6s are reactive and unlikely to act in response to something static like that. They probably would only call them out if they saw some pattern of corruption, whether real or perceived.

    One of the most aggravating aspects of leadership is dealing with e6 skepticism. Most of the time it just infuriates me to where I have to raise my voice. Its been this way for YEARS! I feel like there are a lot of people who just try to get a rise out of me and don't respect me until I shout at them *ahem... entj's.*
    Can you give some examples? I don't feel like you should have to be shouting at them, and it might even be making the situation worse. I might be able to provide some explanation and suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown
    I had a 6 assistant manager. Luckily he got promoted, and a gut type took his spot.
    Yeah. I don't think management is the best place for many 6s. I'm sure there are some who can deal - I did, for a while, and I received good feedback from most of my coworkers - but it's a lot of pressure on both ends, and lots of dealing with abuse of power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    OK good - that wasn't clear based on your description.



    Do you equate beta with phobic? People act differently in different situations so I would be careful about arriving at conclusions there. If they are assertive enough to be vocal or complain, that might indicate otherwise. They might also be introverts intimidated by an an ESTP 8 that owns the place. Their job security is at stake.

    It sounds like you are objecting to the complaining and having to step in on trivial matters and help devise a solution. I can understand how that would be frustrating as that sort of thing drives me nuts. My approach (not necessarily the best one) is to spend time with them, ask questions, provide observations and suggest options without dictating what needs to be done. A lot things just get resolved by spending time talking to them as they are able to vent a little and think through how to resolve their own problems. I let them decide unless it's a really important decision in which case I will force a good dialogue on it and then decide. I listen a lot more than I talk. The questions are an important part of it because by doing that I think it can help the person or team think through a problem. I tend to push more and more responsibility on people over time - continually increasing set of expectations. Then they seem to grow from that. They reach a point where they don't need me so much any more though they seem to value my opinions/insights. That's an INTJ style of leadership though and what works for me may not work for you.

    6s don't seem any different to me than other types except for the annoying testing that you're still loyal to them. I will have to admit to using Enneagram a lot less in work situations than MBTI. I'm sure there is more that could be done with it. I've got an INFJ Enneagram 1 who isn't performing right now and trying to figure out what to do about that. She tends to complain a lot too. I am working on it and am optimistic that it will get better. It's like a challenge.
    I don't think there is a METHOD to leadership. I think leadership is as simple as loving your subordinates. In other words, you give them what they need, not necessarily what they want. Sometimes the hard part is figuring out what it is they actually need.

    Otherwise, I noticed you have INTJ in your MBTI, and the only E6's I seem to run into difficulty with are 6's with Fi and Te. (gamma and delta E6's). Beta 6's do have the typical problems I associate with other 6's, but their skepticism has zero effect on me. An ISTP 6 girl I was into would yell at me randomly and tell me I was judgemental as hell etc but for whatever reason it didn't bother me. for some reason I always just KNEW things would smooth out afterward. Sometimes I was a little wary of her aggression but it wasn't something I couldn't handle. I think my biggest problem is the Fi judgements that are thrown at me by 6's. For example, an INFP 6 told my XO "Jay just put that guy in charge so that he could be a CEO! He doesn't give a shit about any of my ideas or classes."

    agh! From what I understand he was pissed because we are no longer in a bonding relationship as I put a wall between us, so he feel isolated and alone in his efforts. So for this guy specifically, I don't really know what to do. He's pissed because I pushed him out of the nest, and as such I can see him being far less effective than he was when he was given training wheels. He could also be a 9. Sometimes its hard to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Can you give some examples? I don't feel like you should have to be shouting at them, and it might even be making the situation worse. I might be able to provide some explanation and suggestions.
    well, ok... I almost never shout. I think I've screamed at people probably 4 times in my entire life. But to be specific I certainly raise my energy and I get irritated with people.

    One example, in high school, I had a kid next to me who kept punching me in the face. some bolivian fuck. anyway he kept punching me (lightly). The third punch I turned toward him and asked, "what are you doing?"

    "hitting you."
    "I can see that. why?"
    "because I know you won't do anything about it."

    so I knocked out his wind. after that we were best friends. lol.

    This stuff happens all the time, I shit you not. The only reason its stopped recently, as far as I can tell, is because now I wear combat boots, BDU's, sunglasses and a leather jacket most places I go, and shoot most strangers with a look of hostility (hooray for growing up!). I'm also about twice the size I was in high school and I don't look like much of a nice person anymore, unless I'm with friends or making videos on youtube where no one can actually hurt me. Its taking me all of my courage to realearn how to be the smiling ESTP I was when I was 7 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    The only reason its stopped recently, as far as I can tell, is because now I wear combat boots, BDU's, sunglasses and a leather jacket most places I go, and shoot most strangers with a look of hostility (hooray for growing up!). I'm also about twice the size I was in high school and I don't look like much of a nice person anymore, unless I'm with friends or making videos on youtube where no one can actually hurt me. Its taking me all of my courage to realearn how to be the smiling ESTP I was when I was 7 years old.
    Well, I meant specific examples from work, but if you're presenting yourself aggressively, 6s aren't going to respond well in general.

    I don't know that I see threatening the world as a positive way of protecting yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Well, I meant specific examples from work, but if you're presenting yourself aggressively, 6s aren't going to respond well in general.

    I don't know that I see threatening the world as a positive way of protecting yourself.
    Naw it works. Everyone thinks I'm a psychopathic serial killer. they stay away. That gives me control over who I choose to approach on a more personal level.

    For some reason, when some humans see something defenseless they hunt it. Or when something strong drops its guard, they take that opportunity to slay it. Much the same reason a mountain lion attacks a human only when it starts to run away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Naw it works. Everyone thinks I'm a psychopathic serial killer. they stay away. That gives me control over who I choose to approach on a more personal level.

    For some reason, when some humans see something defenseless they hunt it. Or when something strong drops its guard, they take that opportunity to slay it. Much the same reason a mountain lion attacks a human only when it starts to run away.
    Please don't take this offensively, but I think this is a very 8 point of view, and perhaps slanted by that.

    It's curious that you're worried about others hunting you but to protect yourself, you threaten others.

    I don't deny that it probably works but I do think it probably has some unintended negative consequences.

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