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Thread: Supervising 6's

  1. #11
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Aw, @DJ Arendeejust give 'em all some chocolate [laced with massive doses of prozac or pot or something] and see what happens. It'd be interesting, if nothing else.

    [you do know I'm kidding, right?]
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  2. #12
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Aw, @DJ Arendeejust give 'em all some chocolate [laced with massive doses of prozac or pot or something] and see what happens. It'd be interesting, if nothing else.

    [you do know I'm kidding, right?]

    ^Ene might be kidding, but I'm not.


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  3. #13
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    In basic terms of your position as CEO, I would not think it is your job to comfort anyone. However, I do think it is your responsibility to provide them with a positive environment, as @Lux said. Or, at least, it would be to everyone's benefit, including your own, if you did.

    I do understand what you are saying about atmosphere and 6 whining. I had a verryyyyy reactive 6 at my work about half a year ago and I eventually talked to the manager about her because she was making the whole department downtrodden.

    As for strategies, you can redirect them if they seem to be going in a downward spiral by bringing up a whole new subject. You can provide them with tools that will reassure them in being able to confront whatever is coming next - booklets, diagrams, clear rules, clear policy and procedures, and so on. You can also discourage the negative talk by giving them tasks to do. 6s benefit from action instead of thought. What will be most helpful is getting them to see whatever they're interpreting as negative in a positive light, and they will learn that if you demonstrate it. I've been learning it from my e9.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Well, mostly just how hard the task at hand is.

    him: "I'm gonna have to get everyone together by sunday, that's gonna be hard. the event is monday, and my girlfriend wants to do this on tuesday... *sigh* I guess this will work out *sad face slowly increases as he continues to ramble*"
    me: "what do you need help with?"
    him: "um... Idunno... I'm good I guess."
    Do understand that part of a 6 "complaining" is them sorting out the problems and figuring out what they really have to work through. Notice how in the above quote he's essentially outlining the parameters of the task and how he is going to have to deal with them. It might be annoying for you to hear it tinged with reluctance, but he's still taking on the responsibility and figuring out how best to go about it. At least he's not telling you he can do it and then forgetting about it.

    Also, you may want to try rephrasing their duties as honors. Like, Joe, you did such an excellent job with organizing the last event that I would really appreciate you organizing this one as well. I know it will be a little difficult but I feel like you're the best man for the job. He might still grumble a bit, but the flattery will show him that he's appreciated and that his efforts aren't for naught. Appreciation is really meaningful to 6s, who often work hard for the team but get overlooked because they don't tend to take spotlight positions or actively seek praise. It also will help him see it as something to get excited about, instead of a chore.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Yeah, last night we had a performance rehearsal. They were venting about how there won't be enough people. I sorta stepped in and mentioned that they'll be alright with who they have and they need to just focus on what they can do with what they have. He then said, "ok... can we focus on the performance and not just telling us we'll be ok?"

    I just sorta shut my mouth and left after that, haha.
    Eh, sounds like he was being a bitch. I think what you said was fine in that situation and that guy's nerves were getting the better of him. You were nice to have not responded to that.

    Reassuring 6s is often going to be met with some degree of skepticism because we react to the future as we anticipate it. If what you're saying doesn't actively change the likely landscape of the future in our minds, it's not going to quell the anxiety. What you said probably didn't strike that guy as helpful because he didn't see it as addressing the fundamental problem that there will not be enough people to perform well. Telling him that they'll do fine anyway didn't really speak to the issue in his mind of not having enough people. Instead, you could have pointed out that so-and-so could fill dual roles, or that the performance is better off without whatever role, or anything that helps adjust the negative future landscape to a positive one.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee
    I often focus on telilng people where they are weak and how they can fix it, and spotting what someone is good often takes a bit of thought.
    Yeah, this is a really hard one for 6s to deal with. Most of the 6s at my work feel really uncomfortable around our manager because he rarely if ever gives praise, but is always offering constructive criticism. It makes us feel like we're not valued, and it also makes us try to get away from him because we know that he's probably going to criticize us if he sees us. In some ways his criticism has been helpful, but in other ways it doesn't make for a very happy environment when you're rarely encouraged to feel good about what you've done. 6s look outside themselves for positive feedback, so a lack of that makes us wonder why we're even trying.

    You could try the "sandwich" technique for feedback, where you phrase it positive-negative-positive, which would really help create a positive environment. Like, Joe, you've been doing a really great job with the schedules lately, it's really helped everyone. I noticed the windows are looking a little dirty today, though, would you mind giving cleaning them a little extra time? You're doing a great job overall and I just wanted you to know that.

    It doesn't matter that you're telling him he's doing a great job overall if he's a 6 - he'll pick up on the criticism and try to rectify it immediately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    In basic terms of your position as CEO, I would not think it is your job to comfort anyone. However, I do think it is your responsibility to provide them with a positive environment, as @Lux said. Or, at least, it would be to everyone's benefit, including your own, if you did.

    I do understand what you are saying about atmosphere and 6 whining. I had a verryyyyy reactive 6 at my work about half a year ago and I eventually talked to the manager about her because she was making the whole department downtrodden.

    As for strategies, you can redirect them if they seem to be going in a downward spiral by bringing up a whole new subject. You can provide them with tools that will reassure them in being able to confront whatever is coming next - booklets, diagrams, clear rules, clear policy and procedures, and so on. You can also discourage the negative talk by giving them tasks to do. 6s benefit from action instead of thought. What will be most helpful is getting them to see whatever they're interpreting as negative in a positive light, and they will learn that if you demonstrate it. I've been learning it from my e9.



    Do understand that part of a 6 "complaining" is them sorting out the problems and figuring out what they really have to work through. Notice how in the above quote he's essentially outlining the parameters of the task and how he is going to have to deal with them. It might be annoying for you to hear it tinged with reluctance, but he's still taking on the responsibility and figuring out how best to go about it. At least he's not telling you he can do it and then forgetting about it.

    Also, you may want to try rephrasing their duties as honors. Like, Joe, you did such an excellent job with organizing the last event that I would really appreciate you organizing this one as well. I know it will be a little difficult but I feel like you're the best man for the job. He might still grumble a bit, but the flattery will show him that he's appreciated and that his efforts aren't for naught. Appreciation is really meaningful to 6s, who often work hard for the team but get overlooked because they don't tend to take spotlight positions or actively seek praise. It also will help him see it as something to get excited about, instead of a chore.



    Eh, sounds like he was being a bitch. I think what you said was fine in that situation and that guy's nerves were getting the better of him. You were nice to have not responded to that.

    Reassuring 6s is often going to be met with some degree of skepticism because we react to the future as we anticipate it. If what you're saying doesn't actively change the likely landscape of the future in our minds, it's not going to quell the anxiety. What you said probably didn't strike that guy as helpful because he didn't see it as addressing the fundamental problem that there will not be enough people to perform well. Telling him that they'll do fine anyway didn't really speak to the issue in his mind of not having enough people. Instead, you could have pointed out that so-and-so could fill dual roles, or that the performance is better off without whatever role, or anything that helps adjust the negative future landscape to a positive one.



    Yeah, this is a really hard one for 6s to deal with. Most of the 6s at my work feel really uncomfortable around our manager because he rarely if ever gives praise, but is always offering constructive criticism. It makes us feel like we're not valued, and it also makes us try to get away from him because we know that he's probably going to criticize us if he sees us. In some ways his criticism has been helpful, but in other ways it doesn't make for a very happy environment when you're rarely encouraged to feel good about what you've done. 6s look outside themselves for positive feedback, so a lack of that makes us wonder why we're even trying.

    You could try the "sandwich" technique for feedback, where you phrase it positive-negative-positive, which would really help create a positive environment. Like, Joe, you've been doing a really great job with the schedules lately, it's really helped everyone. I noticed the windows are looking a little dirty today, though, would you mind giving cleaning them a little extra time? You're doing a great job overall and I just wanted you to know that.

    It doesn't matter that you're telling him he's doing a great job overall if he's a 6 - he'll pick up on the criticism and try to rectify it immediately.
    hmm, great post. Yeah I'm starting to notice a big difference between whining and "thinking out loud."

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Aw, @DJ Arendeejust give 'em all some chocolate [laced with massive doses of prozac or pot or something] and see what happens. It'd be interesting, if nothing else.

    [you do know I'm kidding, right?]
    Perhaps, haha.

  6. #16
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    is that all it takes? I feel like that's not convincing at all.
    They are thinking out loud. Talking more to themselves than you. Just nod and say, "I know you can handle it." That's it. You're reading too much into it.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  7. #17
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    So, I'm the ceo of a gym in charge of a gaggle of E6's.

    I'm wondering, is it my job to comfort them or not? Is it bad practice to allow someone to become dependent on you for support?

    these guys do awesome work but constantly complain about it, and when I ask them how its going they're completely negative to the point where it starts to rub off on me. I used to pump them up and make them feel better, but its completely draining for me to have to do that so often.

    I know its wiser to teach a man to fish, rather than to give a man a fish, so in this situation, how exactly do I teach the E6's how to fish for themselves instead of turn my office into the house of whining? I don't like the idea that I just kick them out and tell them "come back to me when its done and your attitude is better."
    I don't know what's going on there but a few things I can think of. First, there are different kinds of 6s. The more phobic ones are more likely to grumble to themselves (and complain to peers) and get things done. Counterphobic ones could easily clash with an 8 who is their boss as they can have issues with authority and the 8 in particular could rub them the wrong way. One thing that strikes me is that you call yourself a CEO and what my reaction would be to that if I worked in a gym which would be, "who does this guy think he is?". Owner or manager - yes. CEO - no. I would expect a bit more humility or something along those lines. The other thing you have to realize is that 6s look for things that can go wrong and they want to engage in a dialogue on those things. That doesn't mean they are just being negative. It is a strategy they employ in order to provide security for themselves. If you ignore the concerns, it impairs your relationship with them and their perception of the situation as a whole and you as a leader.

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  8. #18
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    hmm, great post. Yeah I'm starting to notice a big difference between whining and "thinking out loud."
    Thanks. Yeah, exactly. It might be annoying to listen to but it's the 6's way of working through anxiety. So strangely it's actually doing what you want it to do, it just doesn't sound like it.

    What you probably would want to address is 6 ranting, which is totally useless and miserable.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander
    Counterphobic ones could easily clash with an 8 who is their boss as they can have issues with authority and the 8 in particular could rub them the wrong way. One thing that strikes me is that you call yourself a CEO and what my reaction would be to that if I worked in a gym which would be, "who does this guy think he is?".
    Yeah, this is a really good point. 3s and 8s especially tend to be pretty ego-forward and 6s tend to find that threatening, because it feels like infringement upon natural rights. I think the 6 mentality is more like you earn your title and respect by what you do.

  9. #19
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    hmm. interesting. What you're mentioning is that being a socionics negativist causes self esteem problems in others. I'll think about that. I often focus on telilng people where they are weak and how they can fix it, and spotting what someone is good often takes a bit of thought. I'll have to see about that.
    Oh and on this point, read this book.

    http://www.amazon.com/Discover-Your-.../dp/0743201140

    I personally don't tend to take criticism very well (tendency to get defensive) though I am far more critical of myself than anyone else could ever be. I get especially annoyed with criticisms that are wrong or about stupid things. So if you are going to criticize, you had better have it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I don't know what's going on there but a few things I can think of. First, there are different kinds of 6s. The more phobic ones are more likely to grumble to themselves (and complain to peers) and get things done. Counterphobic ones could easily clash with an 8 who is their boss as they can have issues with authority and the 8 in particular could rub them the wrong way. One thing that strikes me is that you call yourself a CEO and what my reaction would be to that if I worked in a gym which would be, "who does this guy think he is?". Owner or manager - yes. CEO - no. I would expect a bit more humility or something along those lines. The other thing you have to realize is that 6s look for things that can go wrong and they want to engage in a dialogue on those things. That doesn't mean they are just being negative. It is a strategy they employ in order to provide security for themselves. If you ignore the concerns, it impairs your relationship with them and their perception of the situation as a whole and you as a leader.
    I'm not sure why you'd interpret that as such. I'm smart enough to understand that the second you assert your rank is the second you lose respect, and I don't ever actually say "I'm the CEO, therefore do as I say." I do tell people I'm the owner because its important for everyone to know exactly what position they hold and what their responsibilities are. *shrugs*

    Anyway most of the E6's are betas, with the exception of an ENTJ (LIE), and my 2nd in command ENFJ 3 is the one who tells everyone I'm the CEO and to do as I say, for me.

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