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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I also save up lots of money. I was saving up for a car since I was 12, then bought my car when I was 20. I'm extremely frugal as well. I attribute these traits to being a socionics "yielding" dichotomy moreso than enneagram Sp. Don't touch my food, don't touch my things, don't touch my money.

    As I engage in these things I also tend to ignore when I'm hungry, I go to the bathroom at the absolute last possible minute, and I tend to hide the fact that I'm in pain at all and don't ask for help until after I gave myself a slip disk from lifting something heavy. Not because I'm stubborn and prideful, but because I legitimately think I can do it myself, and asking for help is too much work.

    I'm also a capricorn and my most prominent trait in the big 5 was stability. So its hard to understand why I'm an Sx/So at all, considering Sp is the most grounded instinct. Though many of the exhibitionistic tendencies within Sx/So still remain, although they tend to bug some people so I've had to mute them. Its said that the instinct merely AMPLIFIES traits of your enneagram, so in this case, my "everyone look at me" is pretty high, along with my lust for intensity, which I often have to ignore altogether because it drives me nuts sometimes.
    Ah wow.. I can relate to a good portion of this. I have a do-it-yourself mentality as well.

    So, can my responsible, frugal, hard-working do-it-yourself mentality be attributed to socionics IEE? Also, the fact that I'm a 4 but I only feel self-conscious when I'm with a man I'm interested in or occasionally when dealing with work/career stuff, and I am otherwise shameless and 'take it or leave it'? I always assumed my lack of social self-consciousness was SO-blind but I'm willing to reconsider. I also spend an absolutely inordinate amount of time alone. I've never met anyone more independent than I, and that is not boasting - it is actually sad; I'm *hopelessly* independent, to the point of my own demise. For instance I want to ravage a boyfriend every night, but I want the entire day to myself and dont' want to be pinned down to hang out or schedule my dinner.. I just want to do my creative work, take walks in nature by myself, etc. I'm reasonably sociable but I'm also content to go very long periods of time with zero social life. In fact if I'm writing a book or working on a project, I'm happier that way. Let me know if you think this pertains to instincts?
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Interesting! I have considered it actually, though there are strong arguments throughout my life for Sp... for instance, saving up lots of money and extreme career-focus even at a young age, being very frugal with money, extremely self-preservational when it comes to health, and a clear conflict in romantic relationships.. because I chase after then and then retract, wanting time to myself. But, I'm interested in your perspective because in fact I have considered the possibility. Can you elaborate?

    I should mention I relate quite strongly to Naranjo's SP-4, to the point where (you will laugh) I actually considered it could be my first variant. The idea of martyrdom and 'silent suffering' is a theme throughout my life.
    Martyrdom and silent suffering are often a part of Fi and as a 4, could very easily fit in with E4 integration.

    When I was in the military, one of the lines the navy trainers chanted was always "suffer in silence!" Idunno if that's relevant, but ESTJ's are littered throughout the military, so... yeah. Fi.

  3. #63
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    But over time I've learned that seeing others be happy or seeing others fall in love with my visions, are the most rewarding aspects of my life.
    These aspects are rewarding to me too, though I'm not sure it's more rewarding than a solitary walk in nature. I wish I could claim otherwise.. [hangs head].. sometimes the level of my own self-involvement sickens me. But I do like being a vessel through which art emerges, and that is communication. I want my work to be a mirror in which others can see themselves; I don't aim for them to merely see me. What I express, ideally, is universal. Because anything I feel on my own, is something that someone else may feel on her own. This is how I connect to Holy Origin, and it is an idea I had long before I encountered enneagram (not to mention I mistyped a few times). I used to write, on my mirror, "Alone, We are All One."

    I'm not the best when it comes to instincts but I do relate to sx/so personalities more than sx/sp. My analogy for identifying the two is akin to angels vs demons. the sx/so's are aloft in the clouds and the sx/sp's are writhing in the lake of fire.
    Writhing in the lake of fire is exactly me.. heh. I have even described myself or been described by others that way. I mean.. look at my avatar? Haha. That being said I'm still not closed to considering sx/so. I'm far from being in the clouds though. I'm very fiery and present in the moment. Most people guess my star sign as Leo and my enneagram as 8w7 or 7 at a glance.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Martyrdom and silent suffering are often a part of Fi and as a 4, could very easily fit in with E4 integration.

    When I was in the military, one of the lines the navy trainers chanted was always "suffer in silence!" Idunno if that's relevant, but ESTJ's are littered throughout the military, so... yeah. Fi.
    Makes sense. I think I get that way more when I disintegrate... I see myself as a martyr.. it;s a 4-2 issue as much as a 4-1 issue, depending on its shape.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Ah wow.. I can relate to a good portion of this. I have a do-it-yourself mentality as well.

    So, can my responsible, frugal, hard-working do-it-yourself mentality be attributed to socionics IEE? Also, the fact that I'm a 4 but I only feel self-conscious when I'm with a man I'm interested in or occasionally when dealing with work/career stuff, and I am otherwise shameless and 'take it or leave it'? I always assumed my lack of social self-consciousness was SO-blind but I'm willing to reconsider. I also spend an absolutely inordinate amount of time alone. I've never met anyone more independent than I, and that is not boasting - it is actually sad; I'm *hopelessly* independent, to the point of my own demise. For instance I want to ravage a boyfriend every night, but I want the entire day to myself and dont' want to be pinned down to hang out or schedule my dinner.. I just want to do my creative work, take walks in nature by myself, etc. I'm reasonably sociable but I'm also content to go very long periods of time with zero social life. In fact if I'm writing a book or working on a project, I'm happier that way. Let me know if you think this pertains to instincts?
    No. ENFp's are, according to theory, "obstinate" which means they're more about protecting their ideas than they are about being stingy with money. The only F's that are super cautious with money are technically going to be SEI, IEI, ESI, and EII. So in other words, ISFJ, INFJ, ISFP, and INFP. So based on your self percieved extroversion I would put you as one of the extroverted subtypes of one of these personalities. A very common mbti mistype is IEI-Fe's thinking they're ENFP's, and EII-Ne's thinking they're ENFP.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    No. ENFp's are, according to theory, "obstinate" which means they're more about protecting their ideas than they are about being stingy with money. The only F's that are super cautious with money are technically going to be SEI, IEI, ESI, and EII. So in other words, ISFJ, INFJ, ISFP, and INFP. So based on your self percieved extroversion I would put you as one of the extroverted subtypes of one of these personalities. A very common mbti mistype is IEI-Fe's thinking they're ENFP's or ENFJ's.
    Definitely not a mistype. The only other possibility is INFP. I'm actually not a self-perceived extrovert. It seems I'm a cognitive extrovert, but I am introverted in all other contexts except when I am leading a project.

    I am more about protecting my ideas than being stingy wth money actually. Stingy is not how I would describe it; it's more FRUGAL. I don't have that many needs. When I do have a need, I save up for it and do it. For instance I dropped $10,000 to build rooms in a loft apartment which I didn't even own, only to rent out the rooms and live in a tiny loft up above for 5 years so I could work less and focus on music. I saved up for a video camera & blew the rest of my money on props for a music video which I made myself. I'm very do-it-yourself. I went through a very long typing process to figure out my Socionics and Se was the first thing it seemed to be, but it's definitely Ne and Fi as the first two. I'm industrious and I save for the things I want, I don't buy extra crap. I'm buying a baby grand piano next week and then I will have $0 or less in the bank. Less, if I borrow from my parents to get something a little nicer.

    When it comes to money it's simply a life-long mindset of prioritizing. It has nothing to do with being stingy but I use the word "frugal" because I figure out what is really important and don't fuck around with inanities. This could be viewed as "protecting my ideas" because I prefer making sure I have the money to enact my best ideas and bring my best visions to life. I don't care about having 20 different jeans; I need 2 jeans and 5 different beautiful white dresses for a music video. My artistic expression is immortal; it is my passion and purpose. Day to day, I can get by with less. This is also part of my mindset of "martyrdom." I have always been a martyr for my work, my expression, my ideas. I'd rather have no social life and give my projects my all.


    @DJ Arendee i don't know if you saw this but I edited it a few times. :P
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Definitely not a mistype. The only other possibility is INFP. I'm actually not a self-perceived extrovert. It seems I'm a cognitive extrovert, but I am introverted in all other contexts except when I am leading a project.

    I am more about protecting my ideas than being stingy wth money actually. Stingy is not how I would describe it; it's more FRUGAL. I don't have that many needs. When I do have a need, I save up for it and do it. For instance I dropped $10,000 to build rooms in a loft apartment which I didn't even own, only to rent out the rooms and live in a tiny loft up above for 5 years so I could work less and focus on music. I saved up for a video camera & blew the rest of my money on props for a music video which I made myself. I'm very do-it-yourself. I went through a very long typing process to figure out my Socionics and Se was the first thing it seemed to be, but it's definitely Ne and Fi as the first two. I'm industrious and I save for the things I want, I don't buy extra crap. I'm buying a baby grand piano next week and then I will have $0 or less in the bank. Less, if I borrow from my parents to get something a little nicer.

    When it comes to money it's simply a life-long mindset of prioritizing. It has nothing to do with being stingy but I use the word "frugal" because I figure out what is really important and don't fuck around with inanities.
    I suppose a better analogy would be, I absolutely hate buying anyone dinner, or anything for that matter, and I hate sharing my stuff. One of the biggest things I look for in a partner is the ability to support themselves financially, so I don't have to share anything, lol. When I spend resources, I can feel my chi drop dramatically. This was also a big reason I felt I was an sx/sp over sx/so at first.

  7. #67
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I suppose a better analogy would be, I absolutely hate buying anyone dinner, or anything for that matter, and I hate sharing my stuff. One of the biggest things I look for in a partner is the ability to support themselves financially, so I don't have to share anything, lol. When I spend resources, I can feel my chi drop dramatically. This was also a big reason I felt I was an sx/sp over sx/so at first.
    I know what you mean on that. I feel two ways about it. I really love paying for friends when I take them out. I'd rather buy them dinner than buy myself dinner. But I don't like doing this for people who *expect* it. I don't want to have a boyfriend who sits on his ass and expects me to pay. I don't want a friend who always expects me to pay. The type of people I hang out with are independent and would do anything for me, and thus it makes me feel amazing to do something for them. But what makes my skin crawl is expectations. I want someone to take me as I am; not to befriend me because I have something material to offer them. But if I know someone's honesty, character, loyalty and intentions are true as mine, then I tell them "order whatever you want" and spend more in that one night than I spent on myself in the last two months. This just simply cannot be a lifestyle because I have a chronic illness and cannot work that much, and must conserve. And also like I said, I need to save for my projects. So it's more like... I severely limit my social life, but when I do see a friend, the sky is the limit. None of my friends would ever disrespect me and take advantage. Those who do, get the boot.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I know what you mean on that. I feel two ways about it. I really love paying for friends when I take them out. I'd rather buy them dinner than buy myself dinner. But I don't like doing this for people who *expect* it. I don't want to have a boyfriend who sits on his ass and expects me to pay. I don't want a friend who always expects me to pay. The type of people I hang out with are independent and would do anything for me, and thus it makes me feel amazing to do something for them. But what makes my skin crawl is expectations. I want someone to take me as I am; not to befriend me because I have something material to offer them. But if I know someone's honesty, character, loyalty and intentions are true as mine, then I tell them "order whatever you want" and spend more in that one night than I spent on myself in the last two months. This just simply cannot be a lifestyle because I have a chronic illness and cannot work that much, and must conserve. And also like I said, I need to save for my projects. So it's more like... I severely limit my social life, but when I do see a friend, the sky is the limit. None of my friends would ever disrespect me and take advantage. Those who do, get the boot.
    ok. obstinate would be more about protecting your interests from others in fear of them losing value or being stolen or whatever other reason, and that's more in line with IEE

  9. #69
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    ok. obstinate would be more about protecting your interests from others in fear of them losing value or being stolen or whatever other reason, and that's more in line with IEE
    Ah I see. Yeah.. I will confess I'm not that knowledgable about socionics, but I've been through these debates countless times and people always end up saying "You're so IEE it's not even funny" and from studying each function and its meaning, I can be certain Ne and Fi are correct in whatever order; IEE seems to line up with me though.

    Having sorted that out, would you still say I'm sx/so? I'm interested This is the last thing I'm uncertain of, aside from the last wing on my tritype. Meaning.. I know I'm 4w3-8w7-7(X) Sx/(X) ENFP/IEE. I'm about 90% sure it's Sx/Sp but curious to hear observations.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  10. #70
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    I think as far as determining sx/so vs sx/sp goes, it's best to look at the differences between contra-flow and syn-flow (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tual-Stackings. I think a lot of people mistype as sx/sp, seeing their frugality and self sufficiency more as sp. Thing is, as far as flow goes, sx/so and sp/sx are more similar than sx/sp and sx/so. I actually am a pretty generous, empathetic person, which I misinterpreted as social instinct a couple of times while figuring out my stacking. The better social descriptions, however, I don't relate to at all. But I do relate to syn-flow.

    Flow of Instinctual Energies & Compatibility

    When we invest our energy, most of it is devoted to fulfillment of our primary instinct. The remaining energy radiates or flows onto the secondary instinct and finally onto the last instinct, which receives the smallest share. There are two possible configurations or directions for this flow. In first configuration, energy is invested in the order of sx→sp→so→sx. This direction gives rise to three stackings: sx/sp, sp/so, so/sx. In the second configuration, energy is invested in the order of sx→so→sp→sx, which gives rise to the other three stackings: sx/so, so/sp and sp/sx.

    Syn-flow: sp → so → sx → sp
    Stackings involved: sp/so → so/sx → sx/sp → sp/so
    Direction: Compelled toward people. Acting upon and with others as a born insider i.e.- deeply human.

    Contra-flow: sp → sx → so → sp
    Stackings involved: sp/sx → sx/so → so/sp → sp/sx
    Direction: Compelled against people. Seething belligerent outsiders; 'antisocial', provoking, reverse-flow change catalysts. In some profound sense, rejecting the human condition, their own and/or that of others.

    The two flows move in the opposite directions. This antithesis can be seen if the instinctual stackings are compared in pairs:

    so/sx - including, associating, affiliating, networking, incorporating, interconnecting, introducing, unifying, linking, bonding, annexing, cooperating, receiving
    sx/so - excluding, eliminating, dividing, separating, contradicting, subverting, confronting, rebuffing, ridiculing, challenging, interrupting, reforming, rupturing

    sx/sp - intensifying, escalating, rising, surging, enlivening, invigorating, accelerating, stimulating, energizing, vitalizing, reviving, animating, inspiriting
    sp/sx - dulling, calming, quieting, grounding, descending, lowering, dampening, numbing, desensitizing, exhausting, deadening, extinguishing, making still

    sp/so - conserving, protecting, maintaining, preserving, supplying, repairing, sustaining, stewarding
    so/sp - utilizing, employing, implementing, expending, exercising, spending, capitalizing, expropriating

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