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  1. #51
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    One of the key factors that makes an 8 what it is, is the ability to ignore its own pain, either through denial or by raising the cognitive threshold for physical pain.

    If we look at socionics, any function placement that has to do with emotion or physical sensation, is either ignored, or actively avoided. By this logic, the most common enneagram 8's will be (according to a theory I just now pulled out of my ass):

    ENTP (Fi vulnerable)
    ESTP (Fi Vulnerable Si Ignoring)
    ENTJ (Si vulnerable)
    ENFJ (Si Vulnerable, Fi ignoring)
    ESFJ (Fi ignoring)
    ISTJ (Fe vulnerable, Se ignoring)
    INTJ (Fe vulnerable)
    ISFJ (yes I've met some beastly ISFJ's, Se ignoring).

    edit: then again... e8's fear being controlled. which could make Ti vulnerable an option as well, which opens up ESFP and ENFP
    Cool beans. So, what do you think an Fi-dom 8-fixed 4 would be like according to your models?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Cool beans. So, what do you think an Fi-dom 8-fixed 4 would be like according to your models?
    Well, I don't have an answer to that, but I could pull something highly likely out of my ass.

    An E4 with an 8 fix would probably be rather crude and enjoy trash talking other people compared to most other 4's.

    You wouldn't happen to be a socionics IEI would you?

  3. #53
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Well, I don't have an answer to that, but I could pull something highly likely out of my ass.

    An E4 with an 8 fix would probably be rather crude and enjoy trash talking other people compared to most other 4's.

    You wouldn't happen to be a socionics IEI would you?
    I'm just curious what you'd come up with, since you seem to have built a model of the systems in your mind. If you could pull something out of your ass, that's fine too, since I'm convinced that most of us do that on these forums anyway.

    As to my socionics, I'm not quite sure...I've been suggested as IEI, SLE, and ILI. According to MBTI, though, I'm somewhere on the Ne/Si axis, for sure. If you'd like to make a suggestion at any time, I will gladly hear you out.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    @Elfboy

    I've been wondering this myself. 8 seems very Fi-ish--screw what society says, do it your own way. Justice. War vs Peace.

    When I start talking about how I experience my 8-fix, others have told me it really sounds "more Fi"--Justice. War vs Peace. Screw society. Lol.

    It's possible that many 8s mistype as Thinkers, for one thing. I personally type strongly on Sensing/Thinking, and I'm 99% sure it's the 8-fix that influences that.

    I am capable of being--
    - blunt and insensitive
    - more concerned with justice and fairness than interpersonal considerations
    - outwardly cold and unfeeling
    - strategic
    - value my ability to think logically and clearly (could be 5ish)
    - see most emotional displays as "sentimental" and therefore "weak"
    - avoid expressing feelings due to vulnerability/inherent aversion to doing so
    - and I could probably list all the criteria of "Thinking"

    It was really hard for me to accept I was more likely a "Feeler". I'm "obviously" a Thinker, lol.

    So, that may be one reason there's a dearth of Feeling 8s--simple mistyping! I know that ExFP 8s do exist, and I've heard reports of INFJ 8s as well.
    That's Fi + sexual four encased in a five shell. We can be some hard-assed mofos at times. That's where Naranjo's whole sexual four 'more eight than eight' comment comes from.

  5. #55
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Cool beans. So, what do you think an Fi-dom 8-fixed 4 would be like according to your models?
    I'm an 8-fixed 4, mistyped at 8 for a long time. What do you want to know?

    I'm not a Fi-dom, but I have strong Fi... ENFP
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  6. #56
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I'm an 8-fixed 4, mistyped at 8 for a long time. What do you want to know?

    I'm not a Fi-dom, but I have strong Fi... ENFP
    no worries, animal. We've talked about this one before

    actually, my question was directed at DJ--I was interested in hearing his thoughts on this. But, feel free to tell the world about your 4 difficulties--more people should hear this.

  7. #57
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    no worries, animal. We've talked about this one before

    actually, my question was directed at DJ--I was interested in hearing his thoughts on this. But, feel free to tell the world about your 4 difficulties--more people should hear this.
    I'm not sure I'd call it 'difficulties' - it's a defense pattern like any other. But, my life has been full of difficulties. I don't even know where to begin. I've had the kind of life where I lost everything through no fault of my own, fought for my life and survived, was driven to the bottom of the darkest parts of my psyche, got a taste of what it feels like to live for many years with absolutely nothing to lose and thus no fear, no shame and no sense of regret until I started building myself back up again. When asked about my personal difficulties, I could easily write a novel.



    As long as I feel like a human, an animal, and a symbol at once, I feel alive. I am being true to myself. Every shower is so carnal it's spiritual; every motion connects my body with the cosmos; I am true to my instincts. I embrace my tumultuous emotions; they are fuel for my work and my purpose. My body is my canvas, my clothes are my paintbrush. Everything I own, wear, and do is an expression of self. I am a vessel through which music, art, stories and messages emerge.

    This is always the case, regardless of my state of health. But just being me isn't enough. I need to stand for something, to express something; my battle against the odds, my rise from the ashes. Even my dedication to expression in and of itself is something to stand for. Having something to express, a passion and a purpose which means something to me, gives me a sense that I am living rather than surviving. But regardless of the shape or meaning of my expression, strength comes from only one source: integrity. As long as I have my integrity I'm living; without it I am surviving. The loss of integrity is the only loss that is truly devastating. As long as my expression, my purpose, my existence, my friendships, and my choices are connected to my sense of integrity, I am whole. To me, integrity is, simply, being true to myself. The world can take my assets... my health, my work, my money, my hair, my friends... but if it wants to take my passion and integrity, it will have to kill me.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  8. #58
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    @Animal

    you write like an sx/so. ever considered that as your instinctual variant?

  9. #59
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    @Animal

    you write like an sx/so. ever considered that as your instinctual variant?
    Interesting! I have considered it actually, though there are strong arguments throughout my life for Sp... for instance, saving up lots of money and extreme career-focus even at a young age, being very frugal with money, extremely self-preservational when it comes to health, and a clear conflict in romantic relationships.. because I chase after then and then retract, wanting time to myself. But, I'm interested in your perspective because in fact I have considered the possibility. Can you elaborate?

    I should mention I relate quite strongly to Naranjo's SP-4, to the point where (you will laugh) I actually considered it could be my first variant. The idea of martyrdom and 'silent suffering' is a theme throughout my life.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Interesting! I have considered it actually, though there are strong arguments throughout my life for Sp... for instance, saving up lots of money and extreme career-focus even at a young age, being very frugal with money, extremely self-preservational when it comes to health, and a clear conflict in romantic relationships.. because I chase after then and then retract, wanting time to myself. But, I'm interested in your perspective because in fact I have considered the possibility. Can you elaborate?

    I should mention I relate quite strongly to Naranjo's SP-4, to the point where (you will laugh) I actually considered it could be my first variant. The idea of martyrdom and 'silent suffering' is a theme throughout my life.
    I also save up lots of money. I was saving up for a car since I was 12, then bought my car when I was 20. I'm extremely frugal as well. I attribute these traits to being a socionics "yielding" dichotomy moreso than enneagram Sp. Don't touch my food, don't touch my things, don't touch my money.

    As I engage in these things I also tend to ignore when I'm hungry, I go to the bathroom at the absolute last possible minute, and I tend to hide the fact that I'm in pain at all and don't ask for help until after I gave myself a slip disk from lifting something heavy. Not because I'm stubborn and prideful, but because I legitimately think I can do it myself, and asking for help just doesn't even occur to me.

    I'm also a capricorn and my most prominent trait in the big 5 was stability. So its hard to understand why I'm an Sx/So at all, considering Sp is the most grounded instinct. Though many of the exhibitionistic tendencies within Sx/So still remain, although they tend to bug some people so I've had to mute them. Its said that the instinct merely AMPLIFIES traits of your enneagram, so in this case, my "everyone look at me" is pretty high, along with my lust for intensity, which I often have to ignore altogether because it drives me nuts sometimes. Also, I don't personally enjoy much of anything anymore. up until I was about 15 I was all about the self driven independent stimulation seeking. But over time I've learned that seeing others be happy or seeing others fall in love with my visions, are the most rewarding aspects of my life.

    I'm not the best when it comes to instincts but I do relate to sx/so personalities more than sx/sp. My analogy for identifying the two is akin to angels vs demons. the sx/so's are aloft in the clouds and the sx/sp's are writhing in the lake of fire.

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