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  1. #41
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    To apply Big Five dimensions, feelers correlate to agreeableness where thinkers correlate to egocentricity.

    This is why I question feeler 8s. They strike me more as CP sixes or threes.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I'd just like to point out that a great many "INFJ's" are actually ENFJ's who think they're introverts because they stay indoors a lot. In my increasing understanding of actual INFJ's, I'm starting to see 8 as an impossibility. One of the very things that make INFJs what they are is the fact that they look like a weak victim who needs protection. This victim appearance is what drives their ESTP duals to feel compassion. However, the "fear of being harmed" is in line with INFJ behavior. But I haven't met one who I'm convinced wasn't actually an ENFJ.
    What makes you convinced they're ENFJs? Care to elaborate?

    Actually, all it takes to be an INFJ is Ni+Fe. I'm not sure the "weak victims" comparison is accurate--I know one heavily 8-fixed 4 INFJ who's resisted being a weak victim all her life and was similarly put off by all the "touchy-feely, hypersensitive" descriptions of that type. Some people do act counter to MBTI type.

  3. #43
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    Do you have a good (and free!) online Ennagram test you can recommend? I know I"m a 7- but beyond that --- I just dunno. Thanks!
    there isn't one, but if you're interested in variants, this thread might be a good place to start
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...iant-test.html
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  4. #44
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    To apply Big Five dimensions, feelers correlate to agreeableness where thinkers correlate to egocentricity.
    I can see this ringing true for FJs, but not for FPs. Introverted Feeling is very egocentric (albeit seldom expressed with the bravado of, say, an egotistical Se dom) and doesn't consider many people in the equation when making a decision.

    This is why I question feeler 8s. They strike me more as CP sixes or threes.
    most 8s in general strike me as mistyped cp6s or 7s, regardless of MBTI type (been there myself lol)

    @kyuuei
    I would expound upon this and say that many people who are indeed feelers mistake themselves as thinkers for protective measures like this one.
    yeah.
    Feeling does not equal warm, cuddly, people oriented and social. many Feelers are much more guarded and logical (albeit their logic is more subjective/intuitive most of the time)
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  5. #45
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    there isn't one, but if you're interested in variants, this thread might be a good place to start
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...iant-test.html
    thank you! After I sent that, I scoured and found one http://enneagramquiz.com/quiz.html
    That's how I came up with the numbers in my signature. I do think they describe me.
    As for the variants- those I've always known.
    Thanks much! And I will read through the thread you posted!
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    What makes you convinced they're ENFJs? Care to elaborate?

    Actually, all it takes to be an INFJ is Ni+Fe. I'm not sure the "weak victims" comparison is accurate--I know one heavily 8-fixed 4 INFJ who's resisted being a weak victim all her life and was similarly put off by all the "touchy-feely, hypersensitive" descriptions of that type. Some people do act counter to MBTI type.
    I clarified myself when I said its impossible to be IEI and E8 as opposed to INFJ and 8. But there's no use convincing people that socionics and mbti are the same thing. It takes experience before you start to see the correlations.

  7. #47
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Though, thinking and reflecting on it. I think this thread, and the attempt to meld together T/F from MBTI and the motivation connections of Enneagram really does a service exposing the stereotypes and how easily people fall prey to them.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I clarified myself when I said its impossible to be IEI and E8 as opposed to INFJ and 8. But there's no use convincing people that socionics and mbti are the same thing. It takes experience before you start to see the correlations.
    Yes, I am not convinced they are the same myself.

    But that still doesn't explain why you see those 8s as ENFJ. I'm just wondering what you observed or learned that convinced you they were Fe-doms as opposed to Ni-doms.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Yes, I am not convinced they are the same myself.

    But that still doesn't explain why you see those 8s as ENFJ. I'm just wondering what you observed or learned that convinced you they were Fe-doms as opposed to Ni-doms.
    in order to be an Fe dom, you need to have Fi ignoring. The ability to steamroll and ignore any subjective emotional ethics and see only the emotions that are in front of you. (ask any XXTP how ESTJ's treat them and you'll understand how the ignoring function works).

    Meanwhile, Fe auxillary types will have Fi demonstrative, which means they openly demonstrate a soft and vulnerable Fi, all the while mocking it. ENFJ's tend to have a much more haughty, serious, sometimes venemous appearance, compared to INFJ's who are much more openly vulnerable in a superficial kind of way. Their wall has more to do with keeping things superficial with people and not letting anyone into their core.

    here's a quote from an article about socionics SeTi (SLE) and NiFe (IEI) duality:
    It may seem that this dyad is distinguished by sadomasochistic tendencies. In actuality, the soft, soulful and sentimental TE (IEI) has a relaxing effect on FL (SLE) and, to a certain extent, suppresses his aggressive tendencies. In the case of a quarrel, the emotional reaction of TE (IEI) can be so original and unpredictable, that it forces his dual, who poorly orients in feelings, to soften and seek compromise. The image of a "victim" has a stronger effect on FL (SLE) than an equal and invincible enemy, who does not evoke compassion.
    Basically, SeTi's are inherently aggressive and destroy all of their sex partners, and thus ordinarily search for a partner who will not break. Someone who is strong willed and indestructible, when in actuality the SeTi needs to search for someone who is the complete opposite of that, NiFe, someone who already looks like a victim and already looks like he/she will break under pressure, and thus forces the SeTi to feel compassion.

    What defines INFJ's is a facade of weakness fronting a core of strength. (the same actually applies to INTJ's).

    FeNi's on the other hand, usually put up a facade of strength, prestige, success, etc.

    If I judged introversion/extroversion by the number of times I went outside to play with friends, I'd be an ISTP 8w7, but my primary function is external to myself, and I employ thinkers to do my thinking for me. The same concept applies to FeNi. Extroversion is marked by a primary lifestyle external to oneself, while introversion is marked by a more self centered approach to life, remaining internal.

  10. #50
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    edit: theory scrapped
    Last edited by Azure Flame; 09-18-2013 at 10:32 AM.

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