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  1. #1
    Senior Member Evil Otter's Avatar
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    Default Being present, engaging, etc.

    Enneagram institute has a couple of pointers for Type 9 growth but they all seem to either boil down to just common sense (like exercise is good) or this idea that we as 9's just blend into everything rather than being assertive. The following point is one that seems to summarize this notion:

    "Exert yourself. Force yourself to pay attention to what is going on. Do not drift off or tune out people, or daydream. Work on focusing your attention to become an active participant in the world around you. Try to become more mentally and emotionally engaged."

    My response to this was, "Great! And how exactly am I suppose to do that?" The problems I see are that 1) I really don't have a preference and therefore have nothing to exert, 2) I've gotten to the point where I can daydream and still maintain a simple conversation, 3) "what is going on" is something completely idiotic (like a morale meeting) and my preference is to "tune out", and/or 4) even if I am fully aware of my emotions, the expression of my emotions, on whichever side of the spectrum they fall, always seems to come across as being excessive and therefore, generally not well received giving me further cause to contain them or ignore them out of existence.

    So my question is: Has anyone figured out how to actually be more engaged, particularly emotionally, without seeming like you just opened the flood gates?

    Having not actually figured it out yet, it seems like this is very much connected with discovering one's passion(s). Something that also seems to be a mystery (at least for me, maybe for all type 9's). If what you are passionate about is what you are most emotionally invested in, then how can a person that buries these emotion be passionate about anything? This is all very frustrating.

  2. #2
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I dunno. I'm generally pretty chill, but I'm passionate about social justice and I engage when it comes to that. As I've gotten older, I've gotten a bit more assertive, especially when someone is 'damaging my calm.' Which is kinda funny, because it's usually someone attempting to make me engage with them when I don't want to that annoys me enough to be confrontational. I can come out of my natural pleasant haze to tell them to go die in a fire and go back to my natural pleasant haze as soon as I calm down again.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post
    "Exert yourself. Force yourself to pay attention to what is going on. Do not drift off or tune out people, or daydream. Work on focusing your attention to become an active participant in the world around you. Try to become more mentally and emotionally engaged."
    Interesting. I used to zone out like that constantly. Usually cuz I was bored as fack. I heard 8's do the same thing.

  4. #4
    Senior Member mcgooglian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Interesting. I used to zone out like that constantly. Usually cuz I was bored as fack. I heard 8's do the same thing.
    I did the same when you tried to violate me the other day.

  5. #5
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post
    "Exert yourself. Force yourself to pay attention to what is going on. Do not drift off or tune out people, or daydream. Work on focusing your attention to become an active participant in the world around you. Try to become more mentally and emotionally engaged."

    My response to this was, "Great! And how exactly am I suppose to do that?" The problems I see are that 1) I really don't have a preference and therefore have nothing to exert, 2) I've gotten to the point where I can daydream and still maintain a simple conversation, 3) "what is going on" is something completely idiotic (like a morale meeting) and my preference is to "tune out", and/or 4) even if I am fully aware of my emotions, the expression of my emotions, on whichever side of the spectrum they fall, always seems to come across as being excessive and therefore, generally not well received giving me further cause to contain them or ignore them out of existence.

    So my question is: Has anyone figured out how to actually be more engaged, particularly emotionally, without seeming like you just opened the flood gates?

    Having not actually figured it out yet, it seems like this is very much connected with discovering one's passion(s). Something that also seems to be a mystery (at least for me, maybe for all type 9's). If what you are passionate about is what you are most emotionally invested in, then how can a person that buries these emotion be passionate about anything? This is all very frustrating.
    You are asking some great questions, and unfortunately, the answers are rarely easy for us 9s. Expect to put in some time to figure this out... There's a reason why "Full-engagement" sits at the very top of the health levels of a 9!

    There's a book called the "Power of Full Engagement" that offers a lot of ideas behind what exactly goes into being fully engaged. One point to consider is that we need to deliberately and consciously choose to engage, and then choose to disengage so we can recover. Think of it like going to the gym... You work out, but then you need to rest and recover afterward. The recovery is as important as the workout, and without recovery, you'll burn yourself out quickly. So that's one secret: Don't strive to always be engaged. Pick times to choose to be engaged, and then deliberately disengage so you can recover.

    Also, you are on to something with engagement being related to "discovering our passion", although "passion" is a bit nebulous, which I think leads to some of your frustration. It's easier to start off with picking values that are important to you. Things like courage, integrity, health, industry, humility, order, curiosity, strength, compassion, decisiveness, empathy, balance, creativity, expression, etc. (That's far from an all inclusive list, and yours may include few, if any, of those.) What are 5 or so values that drive you? Values are raw ingredients for passions.

    Values in action then become virtues. We inherently will engage more when we are acting on a value. (See cafe's example about being engaged when she's involved in her passion of social justice.) A virtuous life tends to be a passionate one, because we are living in accordance to what is most important to us.

    Finally, if I'm honest, I found emotion to be of little use in the beginning when I started figuring this out for myself. However, the deeper I get, the more useful it is becoming, especially as feedback as to whether I'm getting "warmer" or "colder".

  6. #6
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    You are asking some great questions, and unfortunately, the answers are rarely easy for us 9s. Expect to put in some time to figure this out... There's a reason why "Full-engagement" sits at the very top of the health levels of a 9!

    There's a book called the "Power of Full Engagement" that offers a lot of ideas behind what exactly goes into being fully engaged. One point to consider is that we need to deliberately and consciously choose to engage, and then choose to disengage so we can recover. Think of it like going to the gym... You work out, but then you need to rest and recover afterward. The recovery is as important as the workout, and without recovery, you'll burn yourself out quickly. So that's one secret: Don't strive to always be engaged. Pick times to choose to be engaged, and then deliberately disengage so you can recover.

    Also, you are on to something with engagement being related to "discovering our passion", although "passion" is a bit nebulous, which I think leads to some of your frustration. It's easier to start off with picking values that are important to you. Things like courage, integrity, health, industry, humility, order, curiosity, strength, compassion, decisiveness, empathy, balance, creativity, expression, etc. (That's far from an all inclusive list, and yours may include few, if any, of those.) What are 5 or so values that drive you? Values are raw ingredients for passions.

    Values in action then become virtues. We inherently will engage more when we are acting on a value. (See cafe's example about being engaged when she's involved in her passion of social justice.) A virtuous life tends to be a passionate one, because we are living in accordance to what is most important to us.

    Finally, if I'm honest, I found emotion to be of little use in the beginning when I started figuring this out for myself. However, the deeper I get, the more useful it is becoming, especially as feedback as to whether I'm getting "warmer" or "colder".
    This an amazing post

    You give awesome advice!

    I'll have talk to my E 9 friends about some of these points
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  7. #7
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    This an amazing post

    You give awesome advice!

    I'll have talk to my E 9 friends about some of these points
    Thanks. And good luck with your friends! Us E9s can be very stubborn, in our own peacefully accommodating kind of way.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgooglian View Post
    I did the same when you tried to violate me the other day.
    lmao

  9. #9
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Similar to what @Udog was saying about finding your passions... at one point earlier in my life I realized I was being particularly wishy-washy and feeling kind of dull in general, so I just decided I needed to be more determined. If there was something I enjoyed doing, I would make sure to pursue it more, follow that "trail" so to speak. If I was in a group setting with at least one other person and we were making a decision, if I had an opinion, even if it was only a slightly meh opinion, I would be sure to say how I felt. It was weird, at first, being like "I WANT THE SOUR CREAM AND ONION POTATO CHIPS!!!" It felt like making a big deal out of nothing, but doing it enough it makes you feel ok to be saying things like "my feelings are hurt" or whatever.

    I think the beauty and weakness of 9 is that we are so flexible and adaptable to so many different circumstances. But when it comes time, we have to be able to say YES or NO to what is important.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post
    "what is going on" is something completely idiotic (like a morale meeting) and my preference is to "tune out"
    Pretty sure this is not unique to e9s
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  10. #10
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I would be sure to say how I felt. It was weird, at first, being like "I WANT THE SOUR CREAM AND ONION POTATO CHIPS!!!"
    LOL, that's exactly what it was like at first, too!

    But seriously, nobody betta mess with my sour cream and onion potato chips.

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