[Type 4] Type 4 and Hiddenness

[Alight owl]

I keep my melodramatic emotions under wraps, yes. But most feedback from other people about me sounds 4ish. I don't know anyone in person who is into enneagram, so no one references any type directly. But all of the adjectives they assign to me reek of 4, especially with a 5 wing. Much of the criticism I've received in life sounds like issues these two types tend to have also.

thanks. reflecting with this in mind really demonstrates that it's true for me as well, especially lately as i allow myself to be more vulnerable with people and with myself. for some reason i started this thread when i was thinking about friends who have mistyped me- how it is hard to let people get close who we aren't forced to be close to. however, when i ask people who have been close to me (my sisters, my mom, my husband) they have immediately pointed to 4.

i have always had a really hard time:

1) accepting feedback of any kind (by accepting, i mean in the usual way, but also physically letting it in. i relate to the sp4 experience of being stuck in my own skin bubble. i have to consciously try to hear what others are saying. sometimes i hear but it takes a second for it to register or sink in. sometimes it takes years.)
2) getting people to give me feedback. people are afraid of / intimidated by me! i kind of love that, but it's also extremely isolating.
3) getting close enough to people that they have any feedback to give me (besides that i'm intimidating or aloof)

 

[Standuble]

Are you a writer? There is some beautiful imagery in there. I think I agree that my depression may look different than what people expect. I recently had a friend say something similar to me as what your mother said. I literally had no idea what to say, partly because I read into it that she was insinuating that I don't, and i wanted her to recognize that i do too! Also because I usually dismiss other people's (especially histrionic people's) depression as not as real as my own and therefore not as valid. Ouch - it kinds of hurts to say that out loud.

My husband does know about the depths of my moods, and I'm trying to learn how to show it to my friends and colleagues. I'm making an effort lately to be vulnerable. So that's terrifying. But ultimately more rewarding than suffering in silence and then feeling spiteful toward anyone or thing that wounds me. and really, i still don't allow 'regular' people to get close enough to me to actually hurt me. that still seems impossible. just closer. i'm letting them closer.

Thanks I would agree with you about this. I myself don't judge others for being depressed or not depressed if only due to self absorption. I however do find myself negatively and probably unfairly judging (on occasion) when they feel the need to take time off work etc. due to it. Despite mine I have not had a day off school or work for sickness at all since 1997 and part of me wonders that if I can do it then why can't they? I blame inferior Te for that. I guess I have a skill for making my body work on auto-pilot; it operates relatively productively throughout the day whilst I ruminate, reflect or diagnose the internal mess. When I get home is when I slow down (and often procrastinate the rest of the evening away).

I agree with what you mean about allowing myself to be vulnerable. Over the last few years I have just swallowed my fear and my pride and revealed secrets to others which provide me with shame. Once shared and their responses observed the shame becomes removed from the object and it affects me less or not at all and then I can share these secrets much more readily (however I'm usually protective of my time, energy and knowledge - I've felt the strain of the former two many times). However I think all my shames and vulnerabilities are more or less the same - that which I think will hurt the most to share is just the most wrapped up in shame and vulnerability. I'm trying to express my deepest fears in the hopes I can lessen them. I think in the present day it is the novel I've been writing - I've been developing the plot, characters, setting etc. for years. I fear it would suck (I now agree with the person who said that the difference between a good idea and a bad idea is a knife-edge) as the idea of being a talented novelist is the only pay off I have for all the crap and damage that makes up me. If I write it the novel's fantasy world will no longer be as enjoyable for me but if it gets published then I guess everything that has happened as amounted to something.

But I agree with you. How close can we let them get to us and how long will it take before they can get there?

 

[SpankyMcFly]

going along to get along? will you say more?

Sure. What and when I decide to share with someone as it relates to my "idealism" includes factors like: Are they open minded? Are they interested in the subject/s? Are they open to a rational/civil discussion?

i interpret that to mean that i'm not as openly rebellious as i feel, because it would take too much energy.

Hehe. I'm not THAT lazy Sometimes it does have to do with my energy levels, as social interaction isn't always a priority for me. It often has to do with my calculations of consequence. I just don't blurt out what I'm thinking as it occurs or when I'm feeling it. I try to be tactful and strategic in this regards. There is also a cost/benefit calculation to this as well, especially when I conclude that the consequences will be a net negative i.e. I know what I want to say will impact them negatively but to what degree? and what is their importance to me? Is this person some random joe? A coworker? etc. Sometimes I hold my ground and pay the "price" but other times I decide to "punt" and save the discussion for a later time, for whatever reason. I try to choose these "battles".

...i'm much more interested in being left alone to quietly pursue whatever it is that i quietly pursue.

Me, not so much. When someone wants to talk about my flavor of "idealism" or a related issue I'm all ears and quite willing to engage. I often get quite energized and animated.

i consider my worldviews to be outside the mainstream too, but i'm inclined to show them to people. in small doses. and only in the way that i choose to show them...

This is more context than anything for me. If the topic is one I think will be considered "friendly", there is no such barrier in my mind about small doses. Just the straight dope! All speed ahead

...(usually with cryptic one-liners. i'm in a master's program in literature right now, which has helped me with actually saying what i mean, instead of saying something that points to what i mean that is intended only for those worthy enough to understand me).

I really appreciate tactful and rational/civil directness myself. I consider it sincere and authentic. It's a two way street. From my perspective I want everyone to be "worthy", the more the merrier, inclusive.

All in all I believe my "hiddenness" has just as much to do with societies label of "taboo" of certain topics of discussion and peoples varying degrees of adherence to that. Perhaps this is why I am/have become an So dom.

FTR I am an Atheist and I'm a Consequentialist Libertarian and these concepts are my idealism.

 

[Firebird 8118]

How close can we let them get to us and how long will it take before they can get there?

I agree that it's not an easy thing to do - but in the long run, it helps. You should remember that you can trust your loved ones to be there for you, as they will never judge you and will only wish the best for you. With that in mind, it should then become easier for you to express your emotions. [Also, if this helps: ]

 

[OrangeAppled]

thanks. reflecting with this in mind really demonstrates that it's true for me as well, especially lately as i allow myself to be more vulnerable with people and with myself. for some reason i started this thread when i was thinking about friends who have mistyped me- how it is hard to let people get close who we aren't forced to be close to. however, when i ask people who have been close to me (my sisters, my mom, my husband) they have immediately pointed to 4.

i have always had a really hard time:

1) accepting feedback of any kind (by accepting, i mean in the usual way, but also physically letting it in. i relate to the sp4 experience of being stuck in my own skin bubble. i have to consciously try to hear what others are saying. sometimes i hear but it takes a second for it to register or sink in. sometimes it takes years.)
2) getting people to give me feedback. people are afraid of / intimidated by me! i kind of love that, but it's also extremely isolating.
3) getting close enough to people that they have any feedback to give me (besides that i'm intimidating or aloof)

That seems common to Ni-dom too. I'm almost quite opposite as far as feedback. I take it to heart too much and do not always question the motive enough. As a child, I was told I was cold, and I believed I was cold. As an adult, I see those family members had their own issues with needing excessive attention, affection & admiration and would bully to get it (an e2 for example...).