User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 15 of 15

  1. #11
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    ok, what does this mean:

    For purposes of this discussion, it means you have a defined Spleen center, just as I suspected. I suspect the girls you're talking about have undefined Spleens, and that's why you're seeing what you're seeing in the relationships. You would have to do their charts to be able to see it.

  2. #12
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I think when I'm on the fence about the significance of my feelings, ideas, and experiences, I can come off like a counter-phobic 6 because I'm trying to tackle those feelings by proving them in some way that isn't strictly internal.
    I think I can relate to this. It's like a counter-shame of trying to prove you are important. It tends to look elitist & arrogant. In asserting your own significance you can dismiss that of others.

    -----

    When I feel insignificant, instead of trying to latch onto someone else's perceived significance (which, er, sounds 9ish to me), I tend to resent or reject their significance. It may stir envy, basically, but consciously I experience it as a disdain of sorts, or a rejection of whatever seems to make them significant to others. Often, I may end up making that person feel less significant, and they can resent me for it also. Or if I am nice to them or show interest in them, then they may feel a sense of condescension from me; but it may seem needy, as if "I'm only talking to you right now because I need human contact that badly, not because I really like you". If this is true on any level, then I also feel shame, which probably just exacerbates everything.

    However, if someone I deem significant shows an interest in me or a liking or care for me, then I may get a sense of being in their class. But now it's like we're an elite class. We "get" each other. If I see that person is just that way with everyone, then I may feel less special and not deem them as significant anymore, out of bitterness I guess. I'll suddenly write them off as mundane & chastise myself for wasting emotional energy on them, and I may feel angry that someone who is so mundane did not appreciate me.

    When I truly face my own feeling of insignificance, then I just get depressed, I withdraw, and I convince myself no one will notice I am gone. I may have a sadness about me that is passively seeking to draw out concern in others, so they come to me & validate that I am worth caring about.

    So the clingy neediness & withdrawals are obviously not healthy. Instead of using signals from others to gauge my significance (distorted by my emotions) or my inner ideals (impossibly high), it's better if I act in a principled way on what I believe to have significance.

    I guess when I am integrating, I feel I have the significance any human does & the power to bring something meaningful into the world, but not in a prideful 2ish way (which looks like elitism or neediness in a 4). It's almost like my own significance doesn't really matter so much, because it's some self-evident thing & now I am focusing on how to use it to do something meaningful & not whether or not I possess it. That's really what transcending the ego is all about, IMO - it's not finding a solution, it's realizing there is not the problem you thought there was to begin with. The fixation is NOT reality.

    In short, a healthy 4 is doing stuff they find meaningful (this is not to be confused with self-indulgence or obsequiousness towards others), not just lamenting their lack of meaning, the world's lack of meaning, etc. So I think instead of feeling like they've clung to you to bring meaning into their life, you would feel they are creating meaning with you.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #13
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    2,319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think I can relate to this. It's like a counter-shame of trying to prove you are important. It tends to look elitist & arrogant. In asserting your own significance you can dismiss that of others.

    -----

    When I feel insignificant, instead of trying to latch onto someone else's perceived significance (which, er, sounds 9ish to me), I tend to resent or reject their significance. It may stir envy, basically, but consciously I experience it as a disdain of sorts, or a rejection of whatever seems to make them significant to others. Often, I may end up making that person feel less significant, and they can resent me for it also. Or if I am nice to them or show interest in them, then they may feel a sense of condescension from me; but it may seem needy, as if "I'm only talking to you right now because I need human contact that badly, not because I really like you". If this is true on any level, then I also feel shame, which probably just exacerbates everything.

    However, if someone I deem significant shows an interest in me or a liking or care for me, then I may get a sense of being in their class. But now it's like we're an elite class. We "get" each other. If I see that person is just that way with everyone, then I may feel less special and not deem them as significant anymore, out of bitterness I guess. I'll suddenly write them off as mundane & chastise myself for wasting emotional energy on them, and I may feel angry that someone who is so mundane did not appreciate me.

    When I truly face my own feeling of insignificance, then I just get depressed, I withdraw, and I convince myself no one will notice I am gone. I may have a sadness about me that is passively seeking to draw out concern in others, so they come to me & validate that I am worth caring about.

    So the clingy neediness & withdrawals are obviously not healthy. Instead of using signals from others to gauge my significance (distorted by my emotions) or my inner ideals (impossibly high), it's better if I act in a principled way on what I believe to have significance.

    I guess when I am integrating, I feel I have the significance any human does & the power to bring something meaningful into the world, but not in a prideful 2ish way (which looks like elitism or neediness in a 4). It's almost like my own significance doesn't really matter so much, because it's some self-evident thing & now I am focusing on how to use it to do something meaningful & not whether or not I possess it. That's really what transcending the ego is all about, IMO - it's not finding a solution, it's realizing there is not the problem you thought there was to begin with. The fixation is NOT reality.

    In short, a healthy 4 is doing stuff they find meaningful (this is not to be confused with self-indulgence or obsequiousness towards others), not just lamenting their lack of meaning, the world's lack of meaning, etc. So I think instead of feeling like they've clung to you to bring meaning into their life, you would feel they are creating meaning with you.
    Your definition of meaning is a little hard for me to understand. Does this equate to "creating a bond?"

  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    ^ Well, that may be part of it, but it cannot be a fix in the sense that filling some void for romance becomes the answer for the 4. Because e4s tend to focus on what is missing in their life, envy those who have it, and make it the THING that would finally bring them sublime happiness & fulfillment. Then they get it, and like a child with a new toy, tire of it & start crying again.

    So in a healthy bond, yes, they are bringing something to YOU, which is not just emotional highs or whatever. The relationship is not a distraction from other voids either. To me, the relationship becomes almost like it's own entity, it creates meaning also. Because you're both giving to it, then it's able to give back to you, and you have this positive cycle that's self-sustaining.

    You see this with couples where their relationship brings meaning to other people also because the combined force of the two is more powerful than their individual force. There's an overflow almost, instead of just voids demanding fulfillment. In short, it's productive outside of just you two. I'm thinking of relationship commitment phases, and the pinnacle is the "creation" phase.

    If someone is just sucking energy or needing a crutch or you are just playing hero or getting high off of someone else's drama, then it's stunted. The relationship will shrivel up or blow up. It can't sustain itself.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #15
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFp None
    Posts
    681

    Default

    I experience periods of intense emotional turmoil. For me, maturation has not involved ridding myself of these periods, but accepting them, understanding the cause of them, and finding new emotional routes to move past them. I can't how any E4 without strong Fi functions. I think the OP's ex has the potential for growth- but only out of a relationship. You have to dive into the pit of self and see what's there.
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 37
    Last Post: 07-11-2010, 11:15 PM
  2. Feeling of oneness (without DMT)
    By ocean in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-29-2010, 07:15 AM
  3. [NF] NFs and feelings of other people
    By Virtual ghost in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 12-18-2009, 12:34 PM
  4. [MBTItm] Hurting feelings of other people
    By Virtual ghost in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 02-02-2009, 06:17 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO