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  1. #1
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Question need for ego boosts: Do all 4's take offense to this?

    The E4 I work with seems to take other peoples' actions personally.

    Such as another person making the company look bad

    Or

    A supervisor needing an ego boost or taking credit where it's not deserved

    Actually she takes that personally the most....when other people take credit for things they may not have done...

    (I mean I guess that petty shit used to bother me when I had a soul

    But after working retail...your soul disappears...)j/k lol

    I never took it THAT seriously though...And I don't even notice it now...I've got way too much shit going on to care....

    Why does she care so much?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  2. #2
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I can identify with your friend's behavior. I'm the same way when I see something I perceive as 'unjust'. I feel like it's a bit of E1 tendencies coming through. I use the term 'righteous anger'. People say I overreact to things that are not even about me, but I feel like I'm compromising my values if I just let things slide.

    When people take credit for things they didn't do, I guess it feels immoral and inauthentic. When people get away with it, I feel like the world that tolerates such behaviors is fake and ugly. Personally, taking credit for something is not that big a thing for me. I am more sensitive to things like arrogance, cruelty, or indirect abuse.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  3. #3
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I can identify with your friend's behavior. I'm the same way when I see something I perceive as 'unjust'. I feel like it's a bit of E1 tendencies coming through. I use the term 'righteous anger'. People say I overreact to things that are not even about me, but I feel like I'm compromising my values if I just let things slide.

    When people take credit for things they didn't do, I guess it feels immoral and inauthentic. When people get away with it, I feel like the world that tolerates such behaviors is fake and ugly. Personally, taking credit for something is not that big a thing for me. I am more sensitive to things like arrogance, cruelty, or indirect abuse.
    So is it like it makes it disheartening to live in a world like that?

    I'm just trying to understand the depth of where her emotion is coming from...

    I also don't know what you mean by arrogance.

    Do you mean some that comes up to a counter and says their "title" Like "my name is DOCTOR Joe remedy"

    She does not think that they need to tell her that they're a doctor.

    Is that what you mean by arrogance?

    I find her personality interesting.

    That stuff does not bother me.

    Now cruelty...I mean...again I don't know if I'm all the appalled by it cause I think it just happens...maybe I need some examples of the situation with cruelty and indirect abuse.

    Or does it go back to living in such an unjust disheartening world?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  4. #4
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Usually, 4s take things personally that reflect on them personally. (Like f'rinstance, I've been known to read comments online and feel like shit about myself despite the fact that the comments weren't directed towards me, and I rationally know that.) I'm a bit surprised to read about your friend, actually. But I'll chip in anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Such as another person making the company look bad
    Well, I personally wouldn't be upset by this, because I don't drawn any sense of identity from my workplace. Actually, I'm first in line to slam everything that's stupid about it.

    If I cared a lot, it might annoy me somewhat, though, on the whole, this doesn't sound much like my style.

    A supervisor needing an ego boost or taking credit where it's not deserved
    That might annoy me. You know, that's a kind of shitty thing to do, and pathetic. Especially if it comes at the expense of someone who actually deserves the credit. For the most part, it seems like a relatively minor thing, though, that I'm liable to be apathetic to (I'm assuming he didn't take credit for completing an entire project or something). I'm personally not vested enough in my work to do anything more than mock people, laugh at the absurdity, and go home.

    Your friend might have felt that way because it's inauthentic behavior, or because of the anti-corruption sentiments brought about by the 1-connection. It could also have offended her sense of interpersonal propriety, if she's a strong Fe-user. That's my best guess.

    (I mean I guess that petty shit used to bother me when I had a soul

    But after working retail...your soul disappears...)j/k lol
    LOL. I have certainly changed from my time in retail as well.

    Usually I don't get as upset about things as you've indicated your friend does, but I have had my moments. For me, I tend to freak out about discrepencies in justice. I hate reading the crime page sometimes, because there's a blatant trend towards the rich getting away with things the poor don't; men getting away with things women don't; and etc etc etc.

    The thing about fours is, we're just sensitive to stuff. That's prolly what it is in your friend's case.

  5. #5
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    So is it like it makes it disheartening to live in a world like that?

    I'm just trying to understand the depth of where her emotion is coming from...

    I also don't know what you mean by arrogance.

    Do you mean some that comes up to a counter and says their "title" Like "my name is DOCTOR Joe remedy"

    She does not think that they need to tell her that they're a doctor.

    Is that what you mean by arrogance?

    I find her personality interesting.

    That stuff does not bother me.

    Now cruelty...I mean...again I don't know if I'm all the appalled by it cause I think it just happens...maybe I need some examples of the situation with cruelty and indirect abuse.

    Or does it go back to living in such an unjust disheartening world?
    I can only speak for myself, but I am highly idealistic. I know the world is imperfect, but I strongly believe that since we're in this together, we should be striving for better things. It's like, when I see something unjust, I am just sorely disappointed in humanity. It makes me angry that people aren't trying.

    Arrogance is probably a personal thing. I hate it when people try to make themselves feel better by putting others down. The "Doctor..." thing would probably bother me a little as well, because I will be thinking why they are so insecure about their own worth that they need other people to know their 'title' to gain respect.

    Cruelty is probably very clear, but can come in the form of indirect abuse, and I think all those 'gaslighting' (invalidating other people's feelings to brush over their issues, for example, as in "Jeez. I only meant it as a joke. You're so goddamn sensitive. Get a grip on yourself.") is a form of abuse. I believe it comes from the lack of compassion for your fellow human beings. When it happens in intimate relationships, I find it very disturbing.

    Not sure if it all makes sense. I think my version at least has a lot to do with Fe (social harmony, be nice to other people, etc.) as well. But these things can also be a personal Fi value for some people.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  6. #6
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I can only speak for myself, but I am highly idealistic. I know the world is imperfect, but I strongly believe that since we're in this together, we should be striving for better things. It's like, when I see something unjust, I am just sorely disappointed in humanity. It makes me angry that people aren't trying.

    Arrogance is probably a personal thing. I hate it when people try to make themselves feel better by putting others down. The "Doctor..." thing would probably bother me a little as well, because I will be thinking why they are so insecure about their own worth that they need other people to know their 'title' to gain respect.

    Cruelty is probably very clear, but can come in the form of indirect abuse, and I think all those 'gaslighting' (invalidating other people's feelings to brush over their issues, for example, as in "Jeez. I only meant it as a joke. You're so goddamn sensitive. Get a grip on yourself.") is a form of abuse. I believe it comes from the lack of compassion for your fellow human beings. When it happens in intimate relationships, I find it very disturbing.

    Not sure if it all makes sense. I think my version at least has a lot to do with Fe (social harmony, be nice to other people, etc.) as well. But these things can also be a personal Fi value for some people.
    As an Fi-person, I approve of this message


    Im less offended by the world nowadays, though in my darker moments, it still gets to me. Yes, it is tiring to live in a world that non-stop disappoints you. I think one of the curses of being a 4 is...well, you see the emotional side of things, as well as the creative potential the world holds. For the longest time, before I understood that not everyone experiences the world the way I do, I could not for the life of me fathom why people would hurt each other non-stop as it made me cringe even when I wasn't the perpetrator or victim. It's about the world 'feeling' wrong because the potential for beauty it holds gets non-stop ruined by everyone in it. And that beauty ideal is in essence a golden ratio for the planet.

    It took realising other people had other priorities and often weren't aware of the emotional impact they are having on others, as well as understanding the effect overwhelming dark emotions can have on people that aren't even aware of that effect to understand that..well we are in a continual creation process. Non-stop editing. The first draft of a novel is often unreadable. But since people are non-stop being born and subjected to their 'first draft' of life, the world will forever be in an editing phase so to speak. And it is the process, the flaws, the things we learn along the way that make this world vibrant, dynamic and in its own way beautiful.

    On top of that, I discovered that they in their own way are often doing their own editing and maximising of what they prioritise in the world, that my pov was just a piece of the puzzle.

    I still strive to minimise the (senseless) suffering of any living being, to do as much editing as I can in this world while I'm here. But I'm no longer looking for it to be a perfect product - it never will be finished. It is perfect in the way that it is dynamic.
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  7. #7
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    The E4 I work with seems to take other peoples' actions personally.

    Such as another person making the company look bad

    Or

    A supervisor needing an ego boost or taking credit where it's not deserved

    Actually she takes that personally the most....when other people take credit for things they may not have done...

    (I mean I guess that petty shit used to bother me when I had a soul

    But after working retail...your soul disappears...)j/k lol

    I never took it THAT seriously though...And I don't even notice it now...I've got way too much shit going on to care....

    Why does she care so much?
    What are you talking about I dont...understand.

  8. #8
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    As an Fi-person, I approve of this message


    Im less offended by the world nowadays, though in my darker moments, it still gets to me. Yes, it is tiring to live in a world that non-stop disappoints you. I think one of the curses of being a 4 is...well, you see the emotional side of things, as well as the creative potential the world holds. For the longest time, before I understood that not everyone experiences the world the way I do, I could not for the life of me fathom why people would hurt each other non-stop as it made me cringe even when I wasn't the perpetrator or victim. It's about the world 'feeling' wrong because the potential for beauty it holds gets non-stop ruined by everyone in it. And that beauty ideal is in essence a golden ratio for the planet.

    It took realising other people had other priorities and often weren't aware of the emotional impact they are having on others, as well as understanding the effect overwhelming dark emotions can have on people that aren't even aware of that effect to understand that..well we are in a continual creation process. Non-stop editing. The first draft of a novel is often unreadable. But since people are non-stop being born and subjected to their 'first draft' of life, the world will forever be in an editing phase so to speak. And it is the process, the flaws, the things we learn along the way that make this world vibrant, dynamic and in its own way beautiful.

    On top of that, I discovered that they in their own way are often doing their own editing and maximising of what they prioritise in the world, that my pov was just a piece of the puzzle.

    I still strive to minimise the (senseless) suffering of any living being, to do as much editing as I can in this world while I'm here. But I'm no longer looking for it to be a perfect product - it never will be finished. It is perfect in the way that it is dynamic.
    Yea, I guess I've come to the same conclusion...

    Just a long time ago

    I used to be sensitivie to this stuff...see other people take advantage of the other (like taking credit where it's not deserved)

    But now I kind of think of it in the terms ur talking about.

    As if we are in a world this is beautiful because of the contrast that it inevitably makes.

    And though I may try to produce the least amount of contrast myself, I can't control others.

    So the contrast is forever and always...maybe it just takes others time to awaken to the fact that they're creating contrast...

    I will talk to her in the terms of "editing" as you put it...I like that

    Thank you all for your responses

    I just sometimes feel like she's putting her happiness in other peoples hands...and I don't think that the way to go about getting happiness, you know?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  9. #9
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    What are you talking about I dont...understand.
    I was asking why she is taking others actions personally

    For some reason other peoples indirect actions are causing a strong emotion in her.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  10. #10

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    There are a lot of problems that come with being socially aware and emotionally invested (to varying degrees) in the welfare of others, but ultimately I think it's a good thing --so long as you don't let it defeat your spirit. We all are operating with different levels of personal reserves and situational awareness, so it's natural that our boundaries in regards to others and letting their personal shit influence our own personal shit vary considerably and necessarily.

    I want to add that it is ordinary for a person to care when their own credibility is damaged or usurped, but extraordinary when a person manages to care that it happens to others, especially in such a busy world. (But the world has always been busy, as well as all of the people in it.) Sometimes it moves us to act, too. Ironically, I think E4s are more likely to get keyed up and act in defense of other's well-being getting trampled rather than their own. It can be a catalyst to improve everyone's lot in life when we can identify with our fellow downtroddens.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

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