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  1. #11
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I was asking why she is taking others actions personally

    For some reason other peoples indirect actions are causing a strong emotion in her.
    Ok, I just didnt understand the examples given, or what they had in common.

    In answer to your question, as a four myself, I do not take people's actions that personally. Im only bothered by anything that affects me personally, not by peoples actions that have no direct connection to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    There are a lot of problems that come with being socially aware and emotionally invested (to varying degrees) in the welfare of others, but ultimately I think it's a good thing --so long as you don't let it defeat your spirit. We all are operating with different levels of personal reserves and situational awareness, so it's natural that our boundaries in regards to others and letting their personal shit influence our own personal shit vary considerably and necessarily.

    I want to add that it is ordinary for a person to care when their own credibility is damaged or usurped, but extraordinary when a person manages to care that it happens to others, especially in such a busy world. (But the world has always been busy, as well as all of the people in it.) Sometimes it moves us to act, too. Ironically, I think E4s are more likely to get keyed up and act in defense of other's well-being getting trampled rather than their own. It can be a catalyst to improve everyone's lot in life when we can identify with our fellow downtroddens.
    I dont see this as specifically as four thing. It seems eights would take justice more personally, especially when integrated. The only time I could see it as worthwhile to protest against anything that is unjust against someone other than me or my loved ones is if Im in a position to enforce rules. Then it is my duty. But I have to draw the line somewhere, or else Id get exchausted from trying to save the world. It would be nice to rescue everyone, but can only do so much. Saving strangers would exhaust me.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I dont see this as specifically as four thing. It seems eights would take justice more personally, especially when integrated. The only time I could see it as worthwhile to protest against anything that is unjust against someone other than me or my loved ones is if Im in a position to enforce rules. Then it is my duty. But I have to draw the line somewhere, or else Id get exchausted from trying to save the world. It would be nice to rescue everyone, but can only do so much. Saving strangers would exhaust me.
    It is important to make a distinction between caring for others and acting on their behalf. I am not saying that 4s frequently act on other's behalf. (No doubt we would see interesting sub-trends when pairing E4 with MBTI.) I am saying that I see a trend in them recognizing injustice and verbalizing that observation because 4s don't stomach sugar-coating or glossing-over very well. I am also saying that caring for others may lead to action.

    I find it interesting that you haven't had that experience though. I've encountered it frequently with fellow 4s that I have met from this forum and befriended in real life over the years. I chalked it up to the shared drive for authenticity.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  3. #13
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    It is important to make a distinction between caring for others and acting on their behalf. I am not saying that 4s frequently act on other's behalf. (No doubt we would see interesting sub-trends when pairing E4 with MBTI.) I am saying that I see a trend in them recognizing injustice and verbalizing that observation because 4s don't stomach sugar-coating or glossing-over very well. I am also saying that caring for others may lead to action.

    I find it interesting that you haven't had that experience though. I've encountered it frequently with fellow 4s that I have met from this forum and befriended in real life over the years. I chalked it up to the shared drive for authenticity.

    Can you eloborate on the bold.

    I'm not sure I'm understanding why this kinda stuff has to do with authenticity....hmmm
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  4. #14
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    It is important to make a distinction between caring for others and acting on their behalf. I am not saying that 4s frequently act on other's behalf. (No doubt we would see interesting sub-trends when pairing E4 with MBTI.) I am saying that I see a trend in them recognizing injustice and verbalizing that observation because 4s don't stomach sugar-coating or glossing-over very well. I am also saying that caring for others may lead to action.

    I find it interesting that you haven't had that experience though. I've encountered it frequently with fellow 4s that I have met from this forum and befriended in real life over the years. I chalked it up to the shared drive for authenticity.
    Im not quiet sure I can really imagine the examples given, since @Inari Love gave so little information. I have a problem with people acting in a way that is inauthetic, sure, but is that wat she was even talking about? I cant tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Can you eloborate on the bold.

    I'm not sure I'm understanding why this kinda stuff has to do with authenticity....hmmm

    Maybe the first example making the company look bad has nothing to do with it but the second - to take credit for something someone else did seems fake and inauthentic. Whoever it was doesnt deserve that credit, so its fake credit and not deserved.

  5. #15
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Im not quiet sure I can really imagine the examples given, since @Inari Love gave so little information. I have a problem with people acting in a way that is inauthetic, sure, but is that wat she was even talking about? I cant tell.




    Maybe the first example making the company look bad has nothing to do with it but the second - to take credit for something someone else did seems fake and inauthentic. Whoever it was doesnt deserve that credit, so its fake credit and not deserved.
    She cares about things such as a person throwing out a their title in a conversation.( as if it's an ego boost or something.) Like random people will call us up and they have to give their name....and she notices when people give their "title"....Where I don't even notice...and it offends her...she thinks they're trying to 1 up her or something when they say they are doctor so and so...or I have a PHD in blah blah blah....

    I just barely notice that stuff.

    Also an example of making the company look bad is that there is this guy named mike that is...well aggressive when dealing with customers. He trys very hard to get their money...well cause...their money means he's going to get money...So he is upfront and in their face trying to be aggressively friendly to get tips and shit.

    She hates this. She thinks it looks bad on the company.

    I have a much different perspective. I think he's just doing his job, and as long as the customers don't think he looks greedy then I don't care. We have some people that do that job that barely help the customers when they actually need it. ugh. I get more upset when someone is NOT doing their job than when someone is aggressively doing their job.

    So really I would not like if Mike broke a rule....but in my eyes he hasn't really. He maybe could be a little bit more tactful...

    But she thinks is looks bad for the whole company...and takes it like it's looking bad on her. She takes the other person's actions personally. And I would say that's indirect action.

    I get annoyed when people break a rule...and even then...it's only when it's a rule I care about.

    But she's upset cause she thinks he looks like a money grubbing A-hole



    Thanks for clarifying that...again...I keep looking at the situations and I don't see that it's HER taking credit for someone else's work....nor is the person taking HER work for credit.

    I just wasn't seeing why SHE was being inauthentic...but now I see that SHE doesn't necessarily have to be the person in the equation to be offended.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  6. #16
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    She cares about things such as a person throwing out a their title in a conversation.( as if it's an ego boost or something.) Like random people will call us up and they have to give their name....and she notices when people give their "title"....Where I don't even notice...and it offends her...she thinks they're trying to 1 up her or something when they say they are doctor so and so...or I have a PHD in blah blah blah....

    I just barely notice that stuff.

    Also an example of making the company look bad is that there is this guy named mike that is...well aggressive when dealing with customers. He trys very hard to get their money...well cause...their money means he's going to get money...So he is upfront and in their face trying to be aggressively friendly to get tips and shit.

    She hates this. She thinks it looks bad on the company.

    I have a much different perspective. I think he's just doing his job, and as long as the customers don't think he looks greedy then I don't care. We have some people that do that job that barely help the customers when they actually need it. ugh. I get more upset when someone is NOT doing their job than when someone is aggressively doing their job.

    So really I would not like if Mike broke a rule....but in my eyes he hasn't really. He maybe could be a little bit more tactful...

    But she thinks is looks bad for the whole company...and takes it like it's looking bad on her. She takes the other person's actions personally. And I would say that's indirect action.

    I get annoyed when people break a rule...and even then...it's only when it's a rule I care about.

    But she's upset cause she thinks he looks like a money grubbing A-hole



    Thanks for clarifying that...again...I keep looking at the situations and I don't see that it's HER taking credit for someone else's work....nor is the person taking HER work for credit.

    I just wasn't seeing why SHE was being inauthentic...but now I see that SHE doesn't necessarily have to be the person in the equation to be offended.
    Yeah, ok, thanks for clarifying the examples!

    The first example you gave then, with Mike being agressive...that would bother me only in the sense the behavior seems faked. I wouldnt have a problem with him being aggressive, so long as hes not attacking people, which from what you stated it doesnt seem he is. Its not the aggression, just the fact the agression seems feigned.

    You seem like you are judging behaviors from the standpoint of their expendiency/efficeincy, whereas shes sees something more personal.

  7. #17
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Yeah, ok, thanks for clarifying the examples!

    The first example you gave then, with Mike being agressive...that would bother me only in the sense the behavior seems faked. I wouldnt have a problem with him being aggressive, so long as hes not attacking people, which from what you stated it doesnt seem he is. Its not the aggression, just the fact the agression seems feigned.

    You seem like you are judging behaviors from the standpoint of their expendiency/efficeincy, whereas shes sees something more personal.
    Hmm, yea... I dunno.

    Well...he IS pretending to get more money...I mean...I think we are all pretending though ( I don't pretend to get more money though...I pretend to make the damn conversation with a customer go more smooth)lol

    It's what you have to do in customer service. We meet a buncha people we have a 30 second to 5 minute interaction with them and with in that interaction we are playing a role. In a way that's pretending...she knows I pretend...and she doesn't find me inauthentic...hmmm...

    I think that Mike is a fake guy though...in general lmao...so it's gonna spill into whatever he's doing. He seems fake with every interaction he has...He reminds me of "a playa" lol

    To me "a playa" is fake. There is some person inside them that is really insecure but on the outside...they are trying to get every girl

    (even when they HAVE a gf....which Mike does lol)

    So maybe she is seeing him bring that fakeness to the job?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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  8. #18
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Hmm, yea... I dunno.

    Well...he IS pretending to get more money...I mean...I think we are all pretending though ( I don't pretend to get more money though...I pretend to make the damn conversation with a customer go more smooth)lol

    It's what you have to do in customer service. We meet a buncha people we have a 30 second to 5 minute interaction with them and with in that interaction we are playing a role. In a way that's pretending...she knows I pretend...and she doesn't find me inauthentic...hmmm...

    I think that Mike is a fake guy though...in general lmao...so it's gonna spill into whatever he's doing. He seems fake with every interaction he has...He reminds me of "a playa" lol

    To me "a playa" is fake. There is some person inside them that is really insecure but on the outside...they are trying to get every girl

    (even when they HAVE a gf....which Mike does lol)

    So maybe she is seeing him bring that fakeness to the job?
    I dont think I could ever work in customer service. I value being authentic and sincere with people, it would make me sick at least how you describe it.

    As far as Mike being a fake guy...I would tend to see "thats how he is" in his fakeness. Is he a 3W2?

  9. #19
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I dont think I could ever work in customer service. I value being authentic and sincere with people, it would make me sick at least how you describe it.

    As far as Mike being a fake guy...I would tend to see "thats how he is" in his fakeness. Is he a 3W2?
    Yea it sucks lol.

    I find a lot of things that so doms do is fake though...so my perception is very different from most people lol no offense if anyone's so dom...I don't hate them...I just find social habits to be wierd...and most people are so dominant or have it as a second in thier stacking.

    I find doing the stupid steps involved in say freggin hello to be rediculous...Until I worked in customer service I didn't say hello at anyone I saw on the street...nor did I even look at them or smile...I just don't think that step is necessary

    Now I do it out of habit...and in a way I still find it to be fake. (I of course don't look like I'm faking it though, and I try to really be concerned when I say "Hey how are you" but it's silly sounding if I don't know you...imo)

    The bottom line in my eyes is...I would not be talking to these people if it wasn't my job.

    Therefore when I say "hi how can I help you" and I really just wanna sit the hell down and stare at a wall...In that sense its me being fake. <----Is that fake in your opinion? I genuinely don't know the line anymore tbh...

    So yes it corrupts ur soul...don't do it!

    And Mike, yea I mean he is aggressive and maybe fake...but that's how I see him as. lol He's just being himself lol

    He probably is a 3w2 now that I think of it. So/sx prolly. Now that I think about it! thanks!
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  10. #20
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Such as another person making the company look bad
    I'm probably the one making the company look bad - muwahahahahaaaaaaa!

    A supervisor needing an ego boost or taking credit where it's not deserved

    Actually she takes that personally the most....when other people take credit for things they may not have done...
    Only if they take credit for what I personally did, or if a friend complained of it & I was empathizing with them.

    I can relate a bit to what @21% notes about 1 integration & how it shows at average levels.... but I still tend to experience the righteous indignation in more personal aspects of morality. I don't tend to have little pet peeves that much. I would get more angry about emotionally invalidating someone, or something like that. Breaking policies & rules or making some business look bad means very little to me. 4s don't really connect their identity to external entities like that.

    Your friend actually sounds more like an actual 1, or maybe another 6 (such loyalty reminds me of a phobic 6 acting counter-phobic in the face of a threat).

    The ego boost thing only bothers me in people when they only connect with/appreciate people who are boosting their ego. It tends to sadden me though, leaving me with a feeling that people never really know or love anyone for who they are, that's it all just egos playing off one another.

    It may bug me a bit when people use status to assert some kind of superiority that goes beyond the role their status stems from. Someone using their title doesn't bother me at all. Someone asserting it makes them better in general than other people might annoy me. This is mainly true when it comes to morality or intelligence or things I feel status cannot measure (internal qualities, perhaps).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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