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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I want to understand what that means @Zarathustra

    impregnate me with your knowledge.
    I was on my phone before, but switched to computer.

    I added some material, probably after you made that post.

    If more insemination is needed, I'm not that young, nor dumb, but am... I'm not gunna finish that statement.

  2. #22
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    Just did a quick google search for the places I've written about this elsewhere.

    Unfortunately, these were the only results I found:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1979278
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1998248

    I know there are more.

    It's about time I start a thread of its own for this topic...

  3. #23

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    In Molina's system, 4s are 4EI and 8s are 8IE.

    That means 4s are from the Extrinsic center, and are the Intrinsic manifestation of that center.

    Conversely, 8s are from the Instrinsic center, and are the Extrinsic manifestation within that center.

    So yes, the two types are very much, in a sense, opposite sides of the same coin.

    I think this explains the oft-mentioned chemistry between the two.

    ***

    Other similar pairings:

    1s and 5s
    2s and 7s

    I don't know if similar such chemistry exists between those pairings.

    I have heard of 1s and 5s getting along, I think, but not 2s and 7s.

    I also guess there's a distinguishing factor for 4s and 8s here, in that they're the only ones who have both the Intrinsic and Extrinsic value dimensions within their makeup -- 1IS and 5SI, and 2ES and 7SE, all have the Systemic paired with either the Intrinsic or Extrinsic -- and I could see the complete opposition of value realms (i.e., Intrinsic vs Extrinsic) creating a more polarized, volatile, combustible dynamic/energy/tension between 4s and 8s than any other pairing.

    Which makes sense right?

    Cuz when I imagine 8s and 4s, I do imagine, essentially, the stuff of romance novels: sparks, chemistry, insane passion.

    And I imagine it more with that pairing than with any other.

    (Which, once again, in terms of what I've written on here about sexual polarity [basically just explaining David Deida's {and, by extension, much mythological/religious/spiritual teaching throughout history} teachings], would make sense.)

    Sexual chemistry is fueled by masculine-feminine polarity, and, well, 8s are probably the most masculine type, and 4s the most feminine type.

    Woah! What you said makes so much sense. I have been looking and looking, and googling the answer to this question for years. This is by far the best answer I have ever seen regarding this or any topic about personality on these websites. Thank you for the information. I have never heard of this EI theory you are talking about. I will have to learn more about it.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I think, but not 2s and 7s.
    Ummm. I would end it all in some terrific way. Like, that one scene near the end of The Last of the Mohicans where she flings her body over the canyon wall. Yah. Although she did that for love. I would be doing it as a statement against this pairing.

    Actually, my mother is e2 and my father e5 but they both have a strong connection to e8. And while I cannot in good faith recommend having children... my parents have been together forever and love each other very much. They have what you/Molina attribute to e4 & e8. Again, I'd like to take one last opportunity to underscore the whole 'hey, maybe get a dog...' but as for storybook attraction I would imagine e2 & e8.

    Sexual chemistry is fueled by masculine-feminine polarity, and, well, 8s are probably the most masculine type, and 4s the most feminine type.
    I agree that e8 is the most masculine type...I would, however, put e2 as the most feminine of types. What's funny though is as I'm typing this I'm remembering a longstanding, happily married couple I know where the male is ENFP e2 and the female is INTJ e8.


    Cuz when I imagine 8s and 4s, I do imagine, essentially, the stuff of romance novels: sparks, chemistry, insane passion.
    But what happens to all that stuff when they both finally figure-out they're actually e6?


  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    Woah! What you said makes so much sense. I have been looking and looking, and googling the answer to this question for years. This is by far the best answer I have ever seen regarding this or any topic about personality on these websites.
    I suppose I will just have to quote what I wrote in advance for your response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post


    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    Thank you for the information.


    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    I have never heard of this EI theory you are talking about. I will have to learn more about it.
    Those links I posted to above are good places to start.

    I've almost made a thread about it numerous times, and it will happen eventually.

    If you want to get real serious, you can drop $50 on this book (the best on the enneagram, imo):
    http://www.rodopi.nl/senj.asp?BookId=VIBS+53

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Ummm. I would end it all in some terrific way. Like, that one scene near the end of The Last of the Mohicans where she flings her body over the canyon wall. Yah. Although she did that for love. I would be doing it as a statement against this pairing.


    Yes, I could not imagine it going well.

    I kinda realized it, tho, as I was writing.

    While it may have the same initial/primary/superficial "opposition algorithm" as the 4-8 combo (i.e., for 4-8: IE & EI; for 2-7: ES & SE), it doesn't have the same deeper/core relationship at all (i.e., 4-8 is like inside-out & outside-in, whereas 2-7 is just out-systemic & systemic out -- not really the same at all, right? same goes for the 1-5 pairing: in-systemic & systemic-in -- not as seemingly disastrous as the 2-7 pairing, by any means [the 1-5 pairing could at least be all introverted and systemic-discussing with one another, which, while seemingly very dull to me, could potentially be workable for them, whereas the 2-7 pairing would be all O.O extroverted and systemic, which, frankly, just sounds awful]).

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Actually, my mother is e2 and my father e5 but they both have a strong connection to e8... my parents have been together forever and love each other very much. They have what you/Molina attribute to e4 & e8.
    What MBTI types are they?

    I ask cuz often those e-types correlate with INTP and EFJ, which, well, I think work well together.

    Oh, but, iirc, your Dad is an INTJ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    but as for storybook attraction I would imagine e2 & e8.
    I do imagine that in terms of the typical hero/damsel archetype, but, and, while I also feel, in terms of romantic compatibility, it works pretty well (see: http://www.9types.com/writeup/enneagram_marriages.html), I don't think it would have quite as much passion as the 4-8 combo (ftr, I don't think the 4-8 combo necessarily works long-term, which, I think, is why Amargith says, basically, regarding 8s, "I'd like one, but maybe in another life", which, translated, basically means "I'd like a virtual reality where I could experience it, cuz for a limited time, the passion and intensity would be awesome, but, in the long run, I don't know if it's really viable..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I agree that e8 is the most masculine type...I would, however, put e2 as the most feminine of types.
    Ok, yeah, that might actually be right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    What's funny though is as I'm typing this I'm remembering a longstanding, happily married couple I know where the male is ENFP e2 and the female is INTJ e8.
    Well, I'm sure she wears the pants in the family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    But what happens to all that stuff when they both finally figure-out they're actually e6?


    Don't get this part...


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post


    …which, frankly, just sounds awful.
    omfg Z. omfg.
    No other type has me feeling more instantly suffocated than e2 (unless you are Giggly of course.) There’s this thing where I’m like… ‘Okay, I’ve known you for about 5 min and I can already tell I will fail to live-up to every single one of your expectations which appear to number in the trillions… And the expectations I can meet…I will either knowingly or unknowingly rebel against by doing precisely the opposite so...’ *hurls body off cliff*





    I’m excited to see what this says – thanks.


    Well, I'm sure she wears the pants in the family.
    omfg again. The INTJ had to go overseas on an extended business trip and one day she called me from Denmark because she wanted me to go and check on the ENFP because she had become worried about him. When I got over…I can’t even tell you how messy their apartment was…and the ENFP was all depressed going on and on about *how he missed her soooooooooooo much* haha. I totally get it though. I get it - and I’m so freakin thankful I was born a 7.




    Don't get this part...
    Ha. I actually wrote that part because I thought you of all people would get it haha! Whenever I encounter someone that is mistyped…the chances they are an e6 that believes they are either an e4 or e8 are so extraordinarily high.


    And for a brief word to @Newbyagain
    My heart goes out to you as I feel you are doing all you can to try and understand something that has now passed and seemingly passed in a painful and confusing way. I understand because I have been there myself and have done a similar thing. Please don't get too wrapped-up in it all...if you can... that would be my advice. Type-this-and-type-that... there is so much that goes into the construction of another human being...you just never know. What I do know, however, is this: it's often the type you would never imagine that will ultimately bring you all the joy and heartbreak you would want for yourself. Which is why I'm now going to exclusively seek out e2s - come to think of it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    omfg Z. omfg.
    No other type has me feeling more instantly suffocated than e2 (unless you are Giggly of course.) There’s this thing where I’m like… ‘Okay, I’ve known you for about 5 min and I can already tell I will fail to live-up to every single one of your expectations which appear to number in the trillions… And the expectations I can meet…I will either knowingly or unknowingly rebel against by doing precisely the opposite so...’ *hurls body off cliff*


    Is that the deal with them?

    Are their expectations absurdly high?

    Is it less so if they're FPs, as opposed to FJs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post


    Ok, I was showing off.

    But that was only like level 2 spoiler usage, grasshopper.

    While driving up the 101 the other day, I came up with level 5.


    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I’m excited to see what this says – thanks.
    One of the more interesting data-driven pieces I've seen on typology (especially on relationships).

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    omfg again. The INTJ had to go overseas on an extended business trip and one day she called me from Denmark because she wanted me to go and check on the ENFP because she had become worried about him. When I got over…I can’t even tell you how messy their apartment was…and the ENFP was all depressed going on and on about *how he missed her soooooooooooo much* haha. I totally get it though. I get it - and I’m so freakin thankful I was born a 7.
    You know, I imagine a female INTJ 8 would totally rock a male ENFP 2's world.

    As an INTJ man, I can imagine what INTJ women would be like in the sack.

    Then make it alright to do whatever you want to males sexually...

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Ha. I actually wrote that part because I thought you of all people would get it haha! Whenever I encounter someone that is mistyped…the chances they are an e6 that believes they are either an e4 or e8 are so extraordinarily high.
    Aye... got it.

    I'm not as familiar with the e6 side of that equation.

    Having started off as an 8w9 myself, I thought there might have been some reference in there to me and my former relationship (and she is most definitely a 4, imo [but was wondering if you had some different opinion or something]). / e6 paranoia

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    And for a brief word to @Newbyagain
    My heart goes out to you as I feel you are doing all you can to try and understand something that has now passed and seemingly passed in a painful and confusing way. I understand because I have been their myself and have done a similar thing. Please don't get too wrapped-up in it all...if you can... that would be my advice. Type-this-and-type-that... there is so much that goes into the construction of another human being...you just never know. What I do know, however, is this: it's often the type you would never imagine that will ultimately bring you all the joy and heartbreak you would want for yourself. Which is why I'm now going to exclusively seek out e2s - come to think of it.


    Yes, sorry @Newbyagain for kinda derailing your thread a bit.

    Ftr, while 4s and 8s do seem to have a hardcore attraction, I think e4 females are better-suited to LTRs with e2s and e9s.

  9. #29
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post


    Is that the deal with them?

    Are their expectations absurdly high?

    Is it less so if they're FPs, as opposed to FJs?
    They both...FJ & FP e2...hit my radar as being incredibly needy. And I'm not talking about want, desire, passion, drive - needs of an elemental human nature sort. <--Those must be present and accounted for or what's the point? I'm talking about needs as in...how do I say... sorta like 'I'm going to do all this stuff for you...and then I'm going to need you to be...not only forever grateful and in my forever debt...but also reflect back to me what it is I'm trying to see in myself. What I want to believe about myself.' It's weird and I'm probably doing a terrible job of explaining it. FJs do a hell of a lot of stuff for others...and become e8 angry and subsequently resentful when they do not receive the response they want. FPs think they do a lot of stuff but don't...and are more openly needy (they don't try to hide how needy they are).





    You know, I imagine a female INTJ 8 would totally rock a male ENFP 2's world.
    Only if the INTJ e8 female didn't insult the ENFP e2 male's cooking earlier that evening...and he's locked himself in the bathroom...crying.


    As an INTJ man, I can imagine what INTJ women would be like in the sack.
    Pervs. I imagine they are total deviant perverts.




    Ok, I was showing off.

    But that was only like level 2 spoiler usage, grasshopper.

    While driving up the 101 the other day, I came up with level 5.
    Oh if you only knew how much you make me laugh. Yes, I love everyone...but I love you a lot more than I love a lot of other everyones haha!


    /e6 paranoia

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Pervs. I imagine they are total deviant perverts.


    Totally...


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