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  1. #21
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Fe.

    I have no grounding there. Can't even begin to understand...even for a tertiary.

    I am a little surprised though...I don't EVER find ESTP's to be.........moody....they laugh at everything...they are just focused on themselves...they don't have time to project "moods" onto others....imo

    You guys must be really close? That's the only time I see a "mood" outta them.

    You sure she's not a less developed INFJ? They have the same functions. And an estp is more likely to be a 7 than a 6.

    ****

    Either way.

    I'm sp/sx.

    I kinda got the vibe, I could be wrong though I guess.

    It's cause she goes away for a couple days

    An sp/sx interaction usually goes something like this :

    person A (sp/sx) "hi"
    person B (anyone other than sx last) "hi"

    A "tells 1/4 to 1/2 life story"
    B "tells the same or usually more"

    A&B connect in awesome way

    They end the convo of 4 hours not stop...or whatever it is, however long, could be shorter

    Next couple days B does not hear from A

    Then A returns when ready to talk about what A's digested.

    Don't bother A while they're gone though. Unless you want the absence period to be longer
    Yes we are quite close and you do have a point about estps and not getting visibly moody. Actually there are a lot of estp e6s. My sister is one and therefore knew forr sure that she is one too within a couple of days. Though she is not moody with others she does get snappy when pissed.

    Regarding the convos yes that makes sense. Hmm... which makes me wonder although that is true about me (very high possibility of being an sp/sx) do others notice that in me? *thinks*

    You suddenly made me question myself.

  2. #22
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Yes we are quite close and you do have a point about estps and not getting visibly moody. Actually there are a lot of estp e6s. My sister is one and therefore knew forr sure that she is one too within a couple of days. Though she is not moody with others she does get snappy when pissed.

    Regarding the convos yes that makes sense. Hmm... which makes me wonder although that is true about me (very high possibility of being an sp/sx) do others notice that in me? *thinks*

    You suddenly made me question myself.
    It's because your close then. Take the moodiness as a good sign of her being comfortable around you then. I think everyone just wants to be accepted and supported for who they are, but I think 6's may desire it to be openly shown to them the most. It's a way of getting feedback. It's like we say " I'm going to see just how much you care, and where the line is, so that I can tell where we are." Something along those lines. So you could just show her that you're accepting her in some way. I personally would say don't ever overreact to a 6 overreacting. That's when I get the most paranoid.

    Snappy - ness just sounds like she's being testy. Something has gotten to her and she doesn't want you to react to the snappy - ness, cause then she knows there's a line. It's an unconscious thing, and hard to explain.

    And yes, I had asked Starry and Amargith how to tell if I'm sp/sx, or sx/sp....


    I'm paraphrasing but they said: sp/sx will have initial interaction/connect, get spooked, go away, then return after digesting
    sx/sp will have initial interaction/connect digest immediately, get bored, go away, may not come back if their interest is lost.

    That's pretty much my impression. I know I do that. I even self-disclose a lot naturally, and I still "get spooked." lol

    The only way I could tell though is by knowing from the beginning of relationships with people that pursue me. I am normally the pursuer, so I don't get spooked easily. But if someone shows as much interest as me in the beginning or shares more info (usually sx dom), I have to take a step back for a second.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Hey there. I mistyped as 6 for a long long time. In doing so, I acquired a lot of data on them. I am not a core 6, but here is what I understand. Core 6s, feel free to correct me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    (1) From what little i've read on enneagram types phobic and counterphobic are 'exclusively' mentioned in e6s and never anywhere else. So the question is does it only apply to e6s or does it apply to other types too without such intensity? 'It' seems more applicable to e6s than any other type though.
    Anyone can react to a fear phobically or counterphobically. For 6s, since the fear is a core aspect of the personality, the phobic-counterphobic divide is therefore a core aspect of the personality. However, this can also be taken as fixation vs counter-fixation, in which case, versions of each type do appear to exist.

    See here--http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/66637-counter-vice-types.html

    The counter fixation is the counterphobic version of each type.

    (2) can there never be a middle ground for e6s?
    Most reputable authors will mention that the phobic-counterphobic thing is a continuum, with most in the middle and very few at the extremes of each.

    So, in a word, yes. Middle ground is the norm.

    (3) I always associated phobic with 6w7s and counterphobic with 6w5s. Is this assumption correct? But i'm beginning to think i'm wrong because i've noticed a few 6w5s who are phobic and a few 6w7s who are counterphobic in rl and fiction.
    Counterphobes are described as being more aggressive and relying more on their own resources, hence the bias toward the 5-wing. The 5 adds a measure of contention and independence. The 7-wingers, by contrast, are portrayed as more dependent and prone to covering their aggression with niceness, hence seeming more phobic.

    However, the wing does not ultimately matter--phobic and counterphobic versions of each type exist. So, your recent observations are correct, and its the descriptions that have the bias.

    (4) does the phobic counterphobic factor change according to the circumstances? I've noticed this too. At times (and at certain people) they are surely counterphobic but at other times (especially to other people) they are extremely phobic.
    This is a commonly-noted phenomenon. Different strategies in different situations.

    Again, most are in the middle of the continuum, with very few at the extremes of phobia and counterphobia, so of course, most use a little of each.

    (5) something else I have noticed is that counterphobics almost always are sx doms, the so s seem phobic but tends to get CP suddenly and sp doms seem rather neutral (probably because their needs are less others oriented than the other 2types?). Are these observations correct?
    Naranjo has highly regarded descriptions, listing sexuals as counterphobic, self pres as phobic, and socials as prussian, meaning they follow rules to a T (but may raise rebellion). Similar to your observations.

    Most other highly-regarded authors, however, have questioned how neatly this works out, including Riso and Hudson, Helen Palmer, and Sandra Maitri.

    Worth noting that those who are into tritype have observed that 8-fixed 6s tend to be counterphobic, 9-fixed 6s tend to be phobic, and 1-fixers are both or neither.

    (6) in jest - e6s are ideal characters for movie villains because of their obvious anxious nature (i'm using the word anxious alone for convenience.
    In jest, the villain is usually of the 358 tritype.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I've noticed that e6 women are terrible at flirting. I hsve noticed that in all e6 women i know. Could it be a coincidence or is it type related? I have never attempted to flirt with an e6 though.

    E6 men seem to be okay with it.
    I am not a core 6, but I likewise suck at flirting. I put it as my head-fix, though. Coincidence__(that is supposed to be a question mark, btw).

  4. #24
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    In jest, the villain is usually of the 358 tritype.
    I approve XD.

    I see counterphobic E6's as the hero personality. The whole "conquer your fear and fight for the good of everyone" mentality seems to occupy itself in various movies.

    358 is more like an anti-hero, "I'm doing this evil for the good of humanity (and possibly personal prestige but no matter)!".

    I think the only type that can really qualify on any basis for villain status would be unhealthy Core E8's due to sadistic tendencies and antisocial tendencies.

  5. #25
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    You always have such interesting things to say.

    I am the opposite of you though. With strangers I'm counterphobic and with close relationships I tend to be more phobic. I don't mean to get off subject but in your opinion, do you think that the difference between us has anything to do with instinctual varients, or just wings, MBTI or maybe all?
    I missed your question at some point, I'm sorry! Thank you for the compliment. I wonder if the difference may have anything to do with our gut fixes. I see you have 8 listed; I am certainly a 9. I try to retain harmony in general, but when something seems like it may upset my life - when it comes to someone I interact with closely and frequently - I am more likely to speak up. It may well have to do with instinctual variant, too. I try to keep a smooth public environment, which goes along more with phobia, I think. Whereas I'm more sx and unafraid of rocking the boat in private with strangers. Do you have any thoughts on it?



    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I've noticed that e6 women are terrible at flirting. I hsve noticed that in all e6 women i know. Could it be a coincidence or is it type related? I have never attempted to flirt with an e6 though.

    E6 men seem to be okay with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Yeah it seems they don't get hints. Do you not enjoy flirting?

    However i have noticed that it's easy to make them laugh. Atleast i find it easy. But suddenly after a few hearty chuckles they confuse you with a period of apparent annoyance and bad moods. It's no easy task ti deal with e6 women. Unpredictable i find them.

  6. #26
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    You always have such interesting things to say.

    I am the opposite of you though. With strangers I'm counterphobic and with close relationships I tend to be more phobic. I don't mean to get off subject but in your opinion, do you think that the difference between us has anything to do with instinctual varients, or just wings, MBTI or maybe all?
    I missed your question at some point, I'm sorry! Thank you for the compliment. I wonder if the difference may have anything to do with our gut fixes. I see you have 8 listed; I am certainly a 9. I try to retain harmony in general, but when something seems like it may upset my life - when it comes to someone I interact with closely and frequently - I am more likely to speak up. It may well have to do with instinctual variant, too. I try to keep a smooth public environment, which goes along more with phobia, I think. Whereas I'm more sx and unafraid of rocking the boat in private. Do you have any thoughts on it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I've noticed that e6 women are terrible at flirting. I hsve noticed that in all e6 women i know. Could it be a coincidence or is it type related? I have never attempted to flirt with an e6 though.


    My boyfriend notes that I did not really flirt. I can be flirty at times, but usually just when I'm comfortable in a situation. When I actually like someone, if we are not yet in a relationship, I am typically very serious and intentional. I just tend to be a serious person in general I think, honestly. I love humor but I just naturally interpret and interact on a serious level first. That probably makes me a bad flirter.

    As for other 6 females... I do know one 6w7 sx/so who is very intentionally flirty. I don't really know if she's good at it, though. I don't find her very attractive.

    I do know a 6w7 so/sx male who is flirty on the surface and great at it, but he breaks the facade from time to time. It's cute sometimes but sometimes he breaks it too far to where you can see the vulnerability and the show he's putting on. He's generally well-liked by girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    However i have noticed that it's easy to make them laugh. Atleast i find it easy. But suddenly after a few hearty chuckles they confuse you with a period of apparent annoyance and bad moods. It's no easy task ti deal with e6 women. Unpredictable i find them.
    I do think we're hard to maintain balance with because we walk the tightrope between phobia and counter... I think part of the problem with myself is that I keep a running "balance" in my head, and I get upset when it falls too heavily on my side. For example, there is a guy at work who cracks a lot of jokes, and I do laugh both because he's funny and to be friendly, but then he can also be bad about invading personal space and not understanding when to stop with the jokes and also asking for favors or taking our stuff so we have to do extra work without offering anything in return. So sometimes I turn on him when it just gets to be too much. If you could crack us open, I think it would be so clear why we're reacting as we are. But of course no one has that key.

  7. #27
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I've noticed that e6 women are terrible at flirting. I hsve noticed that in all e6 women i know. Could it be a coincidence or is it type related? I have never attempted to flirt with an e6 though.

    E6 men seem to be okay with it.
    This is completely consistent with the E6 woman I know. She is far too shy and self-conscious to attempt to flirt.
    Friends, waffles, work

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  8. #28
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I missed your question at some point, I'm sorry! Thank you for the compliment. I wonder if the difference may have anything to do with our gut fixes. I see you have 8 listed; I am certainly a 9. I try to retain harmony in general, but when something seems like it may upset my life - when it comes to someone I interact with closely and frequently - I am more likely to speak up. It may well have to do with instinctual variant, too. I try to keep a smooth public environment, which goes along more with phobia, I think. Whereas I'm more sx and unafraid of rocking the boat in private with strangers. Do you have any thoughts on it?
    This is nice to know. I'm going to say it just has to do with you being more so/sx. I am so phobic when it comes to the people I am close to. The cliché fear of a 6 never fits me - "Wants to avoid being seen as rebellious," - until I'm a round ppl I care about. I would never want them to think I had bad intentions, or plotting against them or what not. But strangers...I could care less wtf they think lol. I have started to level out a little though recently. Where I am kinda am saying to the ppl that are close to me...that this is how I am, take or leave it. And vice versa with strangers.

    If you could crack us open, I think it would be so clear why we're reacting as we are. But of course no one has that key.
    I wish some ppl had the key!!! lol
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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