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  1. #21
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Embarrassed by what: being unprepared or for getting it wrong?
    Embarrassed by looking foolish

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    So you "prepare for the worst and hope for the best"?
    I used to like that saying.

    I do sort of prepare for the worst but do more than hope for the best. I actively really work at to make good things happen. It's not just hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post

    So it doesn't bother you in general, only when it might undermine your ability to rely on someone?
    That is the example that came to mind. I suppose it's not just situations where I am relying on people. Yes it does bother me in other ways. I tend to accept people for who they are though and foresight is not something that everyone is gifted in - in the same ways. INTJs are known for this, for example, but in some ways in the interpersonal realm, they may not be as good at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post

    You make a good point. You don't want to be that person that didn't speak up and prevent something negative happening. But as many of you have said, people don't like hearing doom and gloom (before or after the fact). Often it's pointless trying to convince people because they won't believe it until it happens. Also sometimes all those warnings can really damage your relationships with other people if you're not careful.
    There is value in saying something though. You don't need to push it too hard. If someone has decided to do a particular thing, you can diplomatically say the only disadvantage of this is X. You can describe your experience with a similar thing. You're not going to change their mind but at least you may have planted a thought. Many decisions can be reversed at a later time. I could also not be considering or understanding certain things. In either case, I feel compelled to say something. I did this at dinner the other night. I'm sure the person didn't appreciate it but I was being honest and if one other person at the table benefited from what I said, then it was worth saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post

    Was there something that effected you ability to foresee what was going to happen in those situations? Did you learn specific things to look out for? Did it make you more generally distrusting and suspicious?
    In all situations where I was burned, I blindly trusted someone - sometimes too soon. In some cases, I was taken in by a charming personality. I learned not to be taken in by those kinds of things as easily and I have more of a BS-Meter now. I have learned to be a better judge of people's integrity as time has gone on. I've learned to be more cautious. My tendency early on was to think that others are as loyal as I am. I realized as I aged that this isn't true and to generally take that into consideration - looking for clues as to those who do or don't have that same attribute or the level to which they have it. I still work on that.

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  2. #22
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    How do you guys feel about gambling?
    I see it as something that is entertainment and dangerous for some personalities. On the rare occasions that I gamble, it's a low amount and I look at it as buying the experience rather than thinking about the slim chance that I'll win. So I've bought a few bingo cards in the past because they're fun to scratch off, and I'll play the quarter slots when I go to the casino, but I don't play the lottery because it's not really an experience. I've probably gambled under 20$ in my life, ha. Definitely under 50$.

    In terms of stocks and so on my hypothetical risk tolerance is low-to-moderate. I'm still a student so it's still hypothetical, alas, but plan to go into things with low risk and relatively low returns, like index funds and maybe a supplement of a few moderate-risk stocks.
    -end of thread-

  3. #23
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Perhaps also Ni wants to know for the sake of knowing, but the 6s impulses want only to know how to avoid negative outcomes?
    That sounds about right. Ni causes me to think, "If I do X, what is most likely to happen?" while being a 6 causes me to think, "If I do X, what possible bad things could happen?"


    It's interesting that it makes you second guess your reading of situations. You make it sound more like tertiary Ti.
    Yeah, Ti does that too. I would say it's a mixture of both.

    It could be a Fe factor too. 6s are inclined to care about responsibilities (or lack thereof) and the good of society; combine that with Fe and it's sure to heighten these impulses.
    True. Lots of stuff going on with this.
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear."--Ambrose Redmoon

    . . . metamorphosing . . .

  4. #24
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Southern Kross;2084179]I've noticed some interesting patterns regarding 6s and their desire to predict outcomes. I'd like to know more about if I'm on the right track and how 6s feel about these things, so I have some questions. I realise they may be different depending on whether you lean towards Phobic or counter-phobic. Feel free to skip the questions you don't feel like answering or don't really apply to you.

    1. Is it important to you to be able to predict how things will turn out?
    Not consciously. I have noticed not much surprises me and its more like, "yeah I figured that would happen". Kind of subconscious "knowing".
    2. Do you think of potential or hypothetical futures/outcomes for yourself a great deal?
    no
    3. Do you ever predict things in an overly optimistic way, or do you tend to always err on the side of caution?I dont think about it until a job needs to get done. Im more geared toward making sure the worst case doesn't get a chance to occur. I don't think of this as focusing on neg/positive but more ensuring things remain positive by eliminating negatives.
    4. When/if you assume the worst, do you do it because you genuinely believe it will really happen, or do you intentionally lower your expectations so you won't end up disappointed/unprepared?
    i don't assume the worst, I prevent it. I'm pretty optimistic overall.
    5. How do you feel when things turn out better than expected? Are you just relieved, or does it bother you that you went a bit overboard?Ive learned to relax and concentrate on larger issues that might need attention. Small things that go wrong arent a big deal. So when things go right it's awesome and something I expect because I've taken care of those major "what if x goes wrong" scenarios
    6. Do you often find yourself saying, "I told you so" or, "I knew that would happen" or just generally relishing being right? yeah. I usually think it and it feels good knowing my instincts are on point
    7. Does naivety or lack of foresight in others really bother you? If so, why? it bothers me when it directly affects me or I have to clean up their "mess".
    8. Do you feel compelled to get involved or speak up if someone is making bad decisions? Is it hard for you to keep your mouth shut when people are, or a situation is, 'sure to fail' (eg. at work)? again if it affects me or makes my job harder - yes I will say something. If it doesn't affect me or I've already said something - I don't bother repeating myself.
    9. How do you feel about risk? Do you enjoy it times or prefer to minimise it (or is some sort of combination of the two)?risk is inherent in life. Stupidity and laziness aren't. It's the difference between having a flashlight when your electricity goes out because of a storm and having a flashlight because you forgot to pay the electric bill. You're in the same boat either way but the latter didnt need to happen. I'm a big fan of calculated risk
    10. How do you react when something (small or large) negative happens that you couldn't possibly have predicted? I usually thrive in these scenarios
    11. How do you react when something (small or large) negative happens that you could/should have predicted? I curse myself and move forward to solve it.
    12. Do you ever find yourself caught between enjoying/remarking at something surprising/shocking, and at the same time claiming you knew it would happen all along? If so, how does that work in your head? Have you missed the contradiction, or are these positions somehow congruent in your head in ways others don't understand? not really.
    13. Have you ever been outright tricked, conned or played by someone?yes
    14. Do you sometimes charge into a situation convinced that things will turn out well? If so, what gives you that confidence?I don't think about it that far ahead.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  5. #25
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    I just decided on type 6, but I'm not sure yet which wing I am and whether I'm phobic. These are interesting questions!

    1. I like to speculate and weigh the likelihood of multiple different outcomes. I don't want to get my hopes up if something isn't realistic, and I don't want to spend time worrying if negative outcomes are unlikely. It's about emotional preparedness for me. The happier I am, though, the more likely I am to jump into things with minimal reflection.

    2. No. It's difficult for me to rule out options, so I'm often left with an overwhelming amount. I try not to think about it too much. I just keep my options open and start boiling it down gradually as the decision approaches.

    3. Somewhere in the middle, and it really depends on what it is.

    4. The former, usually.

    5. I feel great. It doesn't bother me at all.

    6. I find myself wanting to say it sometimes. When I do, I usually do it in a light-hearted way, but if the person didn't listen to me at all, I will be obviously pissed.

    7. I can't stand naivety in combination with intellectual arrogance or indifference. But sometimes naivety comes from limited capabilities or lack of experience instead, which is much more understandable.

    Same thing with lack of foresight. My reaction depends on my opinion of the person.

    8. Sometimes.

    9. Some combination of the two.

    10. I tend to brush things off pretty easily. I might quietly fixate on it for a while, but it usually won't eat me up.

    11. flustered, guilty

    12. These are interesting questions. This isn't something I've reflected on before, and I can't think of any recent examples, but it sounds strangely familiar. I would say that the positions are somehow congruent in my head in a way I can't explain at the moment.

    13. No. When it comes to minor pranks, I'm pretty gullible -- but if I have any time to really absorb what's going on, you don't win my trust unless it's earned.

    14. Sometimes. Because I have spurts of blind optimism and a decent track record.

    15. I don't trust anyone fully, but I give everyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to areas I'm less vulnerable in. I usually trust people not to harm me, but it's hard for me to trust that people's motives are pure.

    Sincerity, intelligence (esp. social/emotional), conscientiousness, kindness.

  6. #26
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    1. Is it important to you to be able to predict how things will turn out? Yes. This is very important to me. I enjoy planning ahead, imagining different scenarios that could happen, making a mental calculation of what the odds are certain scenarios play out that way and why. As an INTJ I can take this pretty far. It takes a lot for me to not be able to plan ahead. Variables that are uncertain tend to make me impatient and nervous. I genuinely hate having to sit around and wait for the outcome of 1 tiny but crucial point in a plan.

    2. Do you think of potential or hypothetical futures/outcomes for yourself a great deal?Without exception. Spontaneous and me don’t mix very well.

    3. Do you ever predict things in an overly optimistic way, or do you tend to always err on the side of caution?
    Hmm pretty much even both ways. I’m generally pretty good at leaving a certain margin for unexpected events. I’d rather find out afterwards that I could have been less cautious than finding out the hard way that I was too optimistic.

    4. When/if you assume the worst, do you do it because you genuinely believe it will really happen, or do you intentionally lower your expectations so you won't end up disappointed/unprepared?
    When I assume the worst that means that I’ve exhausted every single other possible outcome of the situation. This doesn’t necessarily bother me. It’s more like.. recognizing a fact, accepting that I can’t do anything about it and then change plans accordingly. I don’t really take ‘expectations’ into account. An outcome is an outcome. When I am talking worst-case scenarios that is merely to determine what the impact would be, how that could influence other areas of life and how to move on from there.

    5. How do you feel when things turn out better than expected? Are you just relieved, or does it bother you that you went a bit overboard?That makes me smile. I’ll end up trying to figure out where I was too cautious in my planning or what variables I hadn’t taken into account and will see if there’s anything I can take on board for any future similar situations.

    6. Do you often find yourself saying, "I told you so" or, "I knew that would happen" or just generally relishing being right?
    Well. It turns out that saying that doesn’t usually improve any sort of relation you have with the other person . Tried & tested. Still won’t be able to hide a mild gloating smile. I will only verbalize it when it concerns something that deeply mattered to me or when someone previously blasted the advice I tried to give.

    7. Does naivety or lack of foresight in others really bother you? If so, why?
    It annoys me when someone is blatantly ignorant of the bigger picture and doesn’t make an attempt to understand it either. But I realize that there are people for which foresight is a challenge and will never come easy and to them I can be more tolerant.

    8. Do you feel compelled to get involved or speak up if someone is making bad decisions? Is it hard for you to keep your mouth shut when people are, or a situation is, 'sure to fail' (eg. at work)?
    Yes and no. It depends on what my relation is to that person. If I feel someone is doing something wrong or moves in a direction I believe isn’t in the best interest of a good outcome that I am invested in I will generally speak my mind. If someone chooses not to listen, I’ll more than gladly watch them fail. I refer back to question 6.

    If I have no stakes in the outcome of that decision and I don't feel any sort of connection to the person I won't speak up. Not here to fix stupid.

    9. How do you feel about risk? Do you enjoy it times or prefer to minimise it (or is some sort of combination of the two)?
    A risk is a situation that you haven’t thought through. I enjoy calculated risks as long as I know that I have built in certain safety nets. In a risky situation I am aware of what I’m willing to gamble and that defines how far I will take that risk. I will always try to minimise risk. I don’t see the point in blindly taking risks.

    10. How do you react when something (small or large) negative happens that you couldn't possibly have predicted?
    Shit happens. <insert some expletives>
    11. How do you react when something (small or large) negative happens that you could/should have predicted?
    Why did I let shit happen. <insert some expletives>

    12. Do you ever find yourself caught between enjoying/remarking at something surprising/shocking, and at the same time claiming you knew it would happen all along? If so, how does that work in your head? Have you missed the contradiction, or are these positions somehow congruent in your head in ways others don't understand?
    Que?

    13. Have you ever been outright tricked, conned or played by someone?Yes. I was shocked that I didn’t see it and hurt that my trust was abused.

    14. Do you sometimes charge into a situation convinced that things will turn out well? If so, what gives you that confidence?Yes > previous mental exploration of the situation.

    15. What/whom do you put faith and trust in? What does it take to qualify as being so?People that do A when they say A. People that do B when they say B.

  7. #27
    Stansmith
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    1) No. Life is unpredictable.

    2) Yes.

    3) I ignore the negative, focus on the optimistic side.

    4) The former.

    5) Relieved.

    6) Sometimes.

    7) I don't really care

    8) I don't really care

    9) Love-hate relationship.

    10) I'm somewhat shocked.

    11) I feel dumb and naive

    12) I just enojoy it.

    13) Somewhat.

    14) Yeah, and I get confidence from the fact that life is within my grasp. Anything I want is mine for the taking with the right mindset.

    15) I don't really put trust in anyone or anything. I just put faith in the fact that I have complete control in my life and adapt accordingly. I'm not at life's mercy. I'm the one pulling the strings here, and always will be.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I've noticed some interesting patterns regarding 6s and their desire to predict outcomes. I'd like to know more about if I'm on the right track and how 6s feel about these things, so I have some questions. I realise they may be different depending on whether you lean towards Phobic or counter-phobic. Feel free to skip the questions you don't feel like answering or don't really apply to you.
    I am not a 6, and I know this post is old. Still, I'd like to fill it out since it's partly relevant to me (I am 6-fixed). You can use this for comparision with the others.


    1. Is it important to you to be able to predict how things will turn out?

    Not really. My own sense of security doesn't rest upon this, anyway, though sometimes I enjoy predicting the winner or something (doesn't count).

    2. Do you think of potential or hypothetical futures/outcomes for yourself a great deal?
    Yes, but it's often filled with new ideas and hope. I'm very future-oriented.

    3. Do you ever predict things in an overly optimistic way, or do you tend to always err on the side of caution?
    It's funny. People see me as this catastrophe-minded individual, yet examining my brain on a daily basis, I tend to err on the side of over-optimism. "I'm sure I'll go to country X and it'll be awesome!" "It will only take me an hour to do all these papers, so I'll put it off till the end of the day!!" "I can just do that again and get it even better!! *fails miserably*"

    So, go figure.

    4. When/if you assume the worst, do you do it because you genuinely believe it will really happen, or do you intentionally lower your expectations so you won't end up disappointed/unprepared?
    Neither. When I assume the worst, it's generally a strategic tactic, like estimating the costs of starting a business. You want to err on the side of the worst happening so that you don't belly up later. Keep your wits about you, ffs.

    5. How do you feel when things turn out better than expected? Are you just relieved, or does it bother you that you went a bit overboard?
    Assuming I went overboard, it just makes me happy. I WANT to be wrongly overblown when I'm establishing my strategic parameters.

    6. Do you often find yourself saying, "I told you so" or, "I knew that would happen" or just generally relishing being right?
    Yes.

    7. Does naivety or lack of foresight in others really bother you? If so, why?
    Not so much lack of foresight, but naivety does big time. More of a pet peeve, I'd say. For me, it's more of a "ha ha, you are so ignorant" moment.

    8. Do you feel compelled to get involved or speak up if someone is making bad decisions? Is it hard for you to keep your mouth shut when people are, or a situation is, 'sure to fail' (eg. at work)?
    It's hard for me to keep my mouth closed when I'm with people/situations I'm vested in, period.

    9. How do you feel about risk? Do you enjoy it times or prefer to minimise it (or is some sort of combination of the two)?
    Don't generally think about it.

    10. How do you react when something (small or large) negative happens that you couldn't possibly have predicted?
    Deal with it.

    11. How do you react when something (small or large) negative happens that you could/should have predicted?
    Well, I might rag on myself for looking like a fool, but see number 10.

    12. Do you ever find yourself caught between enjoying/remarking at something surprising/shocking, and at the same time claiming you knew it would happen all along? If so, how does that work in your head? Have you missed the contradiction, or are these positions somehow congruent in your head in ways others don't understand?
    No. If I knew it would happen, I would not be shocked. My ego doesn't rest upon the fact that I knew things would happen all along.

    13. Have you ever been outright tricked, conned or played by someone?
    One time I got a $20 bill for my birthday. My stepfather said, "I know a cool trick you can do with a 20." I gave it to him so he could show me, and he put it in his pocket and kept it.

    So, yes.

    14. Do you sometimes charge into a situation convinced that things will turn out well? If so, what gives you that confidence?
    Yes, because a) I'm not a core 6 and b) I'm so convinced my ideas are right and I can do everything anyway.

    15. What/whom do you put faith and trust in? What does it take to qualify as being so?
    I honestly haven't generally thought about these issues.

    Right now, my faith in mankind is extraordinarily low, so I've basically come to the depressing conclusion that I'm the only thing I can rely upon. Everyone else has to go. But still, I don't give this overmuch thought.


    Hope someone finds that helpful for something, anyway.

  9. #29
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    I keep misreading this thread title as "Knowledge and Foreskin" ...I really need to go to sleep.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  10. #30
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    1. Is it important to you to be able to predict how things will turn out?
    erm.
    not exactly... will address in other similar questions
    2. Do you think of potential or hypothetical futures/outcomes for yourself a great deal?
    yes. and to a somewhat ridiculous extent (trying to narrow down college majors... when ten years old)
    3. Do you ever predict things in an overly optimistic way, or do you tend to always err on the side of caution?
    mmm... caution, i think. optimism can be a struggle for me.
    4. When/if you assume the worst, do you do it because you genuinely believe it will really happen, or do you intentionally lower your expectations so you won't end up disappointed/unprepared?
    i genuinely believe it... but subconsciously it's probably partly the second
    5. How do you feel when things turn out better than expected? Are you just relieved, or does it bother you that you went a bit overboard?
    depends how badly i went overboard. a little bit of both, but more relief.
    6. Do you often find yourself saying, "I told you so" or, "I knew that would happen" or just generally relishing being right?
    sometimes....
    7. Does naivety or lack of foresight in others really bother you? If so, why?
    yes, somewhat.
    a little bit because i'm jealous of people who stress out less.
    a little because it can affect me...
    8. Do you feel compelled to get involved or speak up if someone is making bad decisions? Is it hard for you to keep your mouth shut when people are, or a situation is, 'sure to fail' (eg. at work)?
    depends how much i care about them. often keep my mouth shut because i don't.
    9. How do you feel about risk? Do you enjoy it times or prefer to minimise it (or is some sort of combination of the two)?
    depends what i'm risking.
    10. How do you react when something (small or large) negative happens that you couldn't possibly have predicted?
    generally calmly or with a sense of humor. i enjoy crises that aren't in any way my fault.....
    11. How do you react when something (small or large) negative happens that you could/should have predicted?
    not "predicted", but "prevented", i will beat myself up a bit (a lot)...
    12. Do you ever find yourself caught between enjoying/remarking at something surprising/shocking, and at the same time claiming you knew it would happen all along? If so, how does that work in your head? Have you missed the contradiction, or are these positions somehow congruent in your head in ways others don't understand?
    not sure.
    13. Have you ever been outright tricked, conned or played by someone?
    not that i can think of...
    14. Do you sometimes charge into a situation convinced that things will turn out well? If so, what gives you that confidence?
    hm.... not really
    15. What/whom do you put faith and trust in? What does it take to qualify as being so?
    huh.
    not sure.
    i don't really "trust" anything a hundred percent?
    i trust certain people to be there for me until they can't be there for me... i.e. maybe they're dealing with big problems, maybe they are sick, eventually all of them will be dead...
    not sure what else.

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