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  1. #21
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    @Webslinger, have you considered a 3 wing at all?
    Finally, someone says it. I have considered it more with each post in this section, and was actually going to post it when I saw your mention first. It's a testament to the merits of public forums that I didn't even realize the 3 element was there until I started sharing in 4 threads alongside mostly 5-wings and seeing how the difference really plays out outside the books.

    And concerning seriousness, yes. Others sometimes ask me what's wrong when I'm really just thinking really hard about something.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

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  2. #22
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    My 4 wing is pretty strong. The influence of it makes me write things like this:

    "I know this kind of sadness isolates me. Sometimes, I feel like no one could possibly understand what I face, what I go through, or my experience in life. I feel like it is something that I have been cursed with and others are unscathed. It makes me sick to think of it...them and their free passes. It's like being exiled from life and being acutely aware that no one else understands my condition. Or if they do, they don't understand the depth of it, the nuances of it...none of those things. I tell myself, "You're locked in your own well, your own universe with unique rules and harsher outcomes. No soft edges. Jagged. Piercing. Even the sweet things. It just is. It just exists. It permeates everything and you don't know how to get it to end. You don't know how to connect with anyone, share your joy, share your pain, or get it to stop. Life is just too damn confusing to even live....""

    I think I've read that 4w5 and 5w4 is the most isolated and withdrawn types?

  3. #23
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post

    I think I've read that 4w5 and 5w4 is the most isolated and withdrawn types?
    I've never read it, but it would make sense.

  4. #24
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    One day at a time, very inefficiently.

  5. #25
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    One day at a time, very inefficiently.
    Yup. Pretty much.
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  6. #26
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    We have a lot of Enneagram 4s on the forum and this type is a bit of a mystery to me. For those of you are 4s, can you explain how you experience life as a 4? How do you see the fixations/vices of a 4 - melancholy, fantasizing, envy - as distorting how you experience life on a day to day basis? How strong of an influence or grip do those things have on you?
    Either my life circumstances had a large hand in molding me into a 4, or they just intensified the experience. When I was 15 I was diagnosed with Narcolepsy and my entire existence shattered-- socially, emotonally, physically, academically. I became extremely bitter, wistful and envious of the "normal" experiences others had. I never went to Prom, always felt like an outsider and still to this day haven't completed a college degree. Because I found myself alone and feeling astranged from humanity, I delved into that feeling of "rejected" and "different" as deeply as I could, and escaped to my "could be", "should be", "will be". What I didn't know as a hurt and unhealthy teenager though, was that endulging in my vivid imagination would set up dangerously false expectations that would fail me miserably. Leading of course to more hurt, and more bitter anger. A viscous cycle that left me desperate for anyone to care enough to acknowledge my pain (disintedgrating to 2).

    The most beautiful thing about 4's though is our ability to heal and be sustained by truth-- be it pretty or ugly in nature. In other words, vulnerability and transparency is what sets us free-- it did me anyway. I do still deal with the tendancies that I used to, envy, woe, wistfulness; but I've learned to respect what my mind is capable of, and take it captive when I need to. This literally means identifying which of my thoughts are lies and/or distructive, and not allowing myself to buy into them (or continue the fantasy).

    I suppose I have a love/hate relationship with my imagination. It's huge and beautiful but many times confusing and hard to nail down-- give and take I suppose. This often leaves me frustrated and discouraged though, because putting tangible ideas to paper (though possible) can be an ordeal. I think all creative individuals must struggle with this to some extent. When I do succesfully create something I love (painting, meal, idea, etc.) it's usually because I've allowed myself to just do and not over-think. Disecting and analyzing are another tendancy that can be wonderful or disasterous for me.

    There's a description I once read (can't remember where) that referrs to specifically 4w5 as "bloody minded" which I can strongly relate to. I believe it has to do with my loyalty to authenticity, almost to the death. This means if I'm having a crappy day and someone asks me how I am, I will say, "I am having a crappy day". This is where our reputation as "drama queens" comes from, but it's such a falsehood. "Drama" is hyped-up, and just for show. My emotion and reaction are real. If I disagree with someone or find a situation stupid, I will say so. I see this as authentic, yet type 4 often is labeled "complainer" instead of "legit". I resent that, but I digress. This goes both ways of course, as I will *squeeeeee* out of joy if I truly feel it! -^_^- The more I've pursued authenticity (my own and others') the more happiness, and less gloom I've found. I've been blessed to realize that by sharing honestly with others, they feel licensed to be honest too. Sad that they should need to be, but such a beautiful thing none-the-less!

    I will still punch someone if it needs doing though. Kidding...not kidding.

    Then there is the topic of feeling insignificant, but I'm too tired of writing to go into it now. Le sigh.
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my six question Enneagram surveyEnneagram survey!✨

  7. #27
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post

    I'm curious if other 4s take things too seriously, or get told by others that they take things too seriously.
    Absolutely all of the time. People often give me the, "it's okay, just chill out", or they try to joke with me and I don't realize it's a joke (and respond literally). Ack. Visa versa also happens too, where I'll joke with someone and they just look afraid or worried...maybe it's because my humor is usually sarcastic/dry and they think I'm serious? Le sigh. How do you experience it @Tiltyred?
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my six question Enneagram surveyEnneagram survey!✨

  8. #28
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    Either my life circumstances had a large hand in molding me into a 4, or they just intensified the experience. When I was 15 I was diagnosed with Narcolepsy and my entire existence shattered-- socially, emotonally, physically, academically. I became extremely bitter, wistful and envious of the "normal" experiences others had. I never went to Prom, always felt like an outsider and still to this day haven't completed a college degree.
    It's comforting to know that there are people similar to me.

    IIRC, there was one time in Peanuts when the gang was at camp and they were making their beds. When they check to see if they can bounce a quarter on them, Snoopy's hits the ceiling. Charlie Brown tosses a quarted on his bed and the whole thing just falls apart. I feel like that's my life in a nutshell.

    Because I found myself alone and feeling astranged from humanity, I delved into that feeling of "rejected" and "different" as deeply as I could, and escaped to my "could be", "should be", "will be". What I didn't know as a hurt and unhealthy teenager though, was that endulging in my vivid imagination would set up dangerously false expectations that would fail me miserably. Leading of course to more hurt, and more bitter anger. A viscous cycle that left me desperate for anyone to care enough to acknowledge my pain (disintedgrating to 2).
    As a Te-dom I'm all about getting stuff done. If there's a problem I want to know just what it is and I wanted it fixed yesterday. When I am constantly deprived of that I sort of implode after awhile.

    There's a description I once read (can't remember where) that referrs to specifically 4w5 as "bloody minded" which I can strongly relate to. I believe it has to do with my loyalty to authenticity, almost to the death. This means if I'm having a crappy day and someone asks me how I am, I will say, "I am having a crappy day". This is where our reputation as "drama queens" comes from, but it's such a falsehood. "Drama" is hyped-up, and just for show. My emotion and reaction are real. If I disagree with someone or find a situation stupid, I will say so. I see this as authentic, yet type 4 often is labeled "complainer" instead of "legit". I resent that, but I digress.
    Roger Waters, essentially. I'm pretty sure he's a 4-5-8.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    Absolutely all of the time. People often give me the, "it's okay, just chill out", or they try to joke with me and I don't realize it's a joke (and respond literally). Ack. Visa versa also happens too, where I'll joke with someone and they just look afraid or worried...maybe it's because my humor is usually sarcastic/dry and they think I'm serious? Le sigh. How do you experience it @Tiltyred?

    Yeah, I sometimes have a hard time synching up with other people's humor. In the past two months, I've met two people from online (elsewhere), and it was so refreshing to my soul ... neither was the least bit hard to get along with, and both of them were so funny we nearly died laughing, I mean the kind of laughing where "strikes you funny" is a massive understatement, where it feels more like you suddenly can't breathe, something's so hilarious, tears are coming down your face and you're making strange noises kind of laughing. OMG it was good. I spend a lot of time making jokes nobody gets or thinks I mean something other than what I mean (usually not a generous interpretation, either), or other people make jokes and I respond as if they were not jokes, and don't realize till I see I disrupted the rhythm of the conversation that I misinterpreted.

    In another place online where I hang out, I made the mistake of running my mouth about my own feelings about certain things, and all hell broke loose because so many people either took personally what I said, attributed bad intentions to what I said, or completely didn't get my humor, to the point where I absconded with 3 other friends and we formed our own group because we can snark in there and do our dry humor stuff and our dark humor stuff and crack each other up without somebody getting offended. I may never come out of that one little section. Find yer people and keep them close -- it's worth the effort. So good to really laugh.

    I don't appreciate the order to chill because if I'm tense, it's because I'm seeing something down the road that they can't see yet. Maybe this is just INFJ 4, but you know how, if you are one, your mind gets hold of an idea as it passes and rides its tail a bit into the future for a glimpse? and the idea as it's presented and as it's just passing near you doesn't seem so bad, but you know it's going to run slam into a wall on the next block and you're already mentally doing triage and waiting for the sound of the crash -- "chill out" does not seem the appropriate response. Of course, sometimes that vision of the future is wrong, too, and just a product of anxiety, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared. I rarely feel like I can really drop my state of watchfulness. Because everybody else is busy chilling out rather than watching out.

  10. #30
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Yeah, I sometimes have a hard time synching up with other people's humor. In the past two months, I've met two people from online (elsewhere), and it was so refreshing to my soul ... neither was the least bit hard to get along with, and both of them were so funny we nearly died laughing, I mean the kind of laughing where "strikes you funny" is a massive understatement, where it feels more like you suddenly can't breathe, something's so hilarious, tears are coming down your face and you're making strange noises kind of laughing. OMG it was good. I spend a lot of time making jokes nobody gets or thinks I mean something other than what I mean (usually not a generous interpretation, either), or other people make jokes and I respond as if they were not jokes, and don't realize till I see I disrupted the rhythm of the conversation that I misinterpreted.

    In another place online where I hang out, I made the mistake of running my mouth about my own feelings about certain things, and all hell broke loose because so many people either took personally what I said, attributed bad intentions to what I said, or completely didn't get my humor, to the point where I absconded with 3 other friends and we formed our own group because we can snark in there and do our dry humor stuff and our dark humor stuff and crack each other up without somebody getting offended. I may never come out of that one little section. Find yer people and keep them close -- it's worth the effort. So good to really laugh.

    I don't appreciate the order to chill because if I'm tense, it's because I'm seeing something down the road that they can't see yet. Maybe this is just INFJ 4, but you know how, if you are one, your mind gets hold of an idea as it passes and rides its tail a bit into the future for a glimpse? and the idea as it's presented and as it's just passing near you doesn't seem so bad, but you know it's going to run slam into a wall on the next block and you're already mentally doing triage and waiting for the sound of the crash -- "chill out" does not seem the appropriate response. Of course, sometimes that vision of the future is wrong, too, and just a product of anxiety, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared. I rarely feel like I can really drop my state of watchfulness. Because everybody else is busy chilling out rather than watching out.
    That's so great! I love finding those people who just get it, belly laughter abounds and all walls can be dropped! I only have a handful of those people in my life, but I too treasure them.

    Yeah, I've never been very successful with online communication (or even texting for that matter), mis-understanding happens way too often. I agree about people telling me to "chill", or trying to calm me down if I'm alert about something. As you said, sometimes it is a "false alarm" but other times it isn't and my concerns are validated. I'd personally rather be wrong and an idiot, than wrong because I didn't speak up. I think those close to me, or who I work with on a regular basis have become aware of my instincts though, I was recently even thanked for being (as they saw it) a compass, or "true north" for a volunteer team I'm part of. That never happens, so it felt really good to be appreciated for something that I'm often labeled as uptight for. Those people that get it are out there, and I suppose that's what matters.

    Thanks for sharing your insight, it's comforting to hear that other's have simmilar experiences to my own.
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my six question Enneagram surveyEnneagram survey!✨

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