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  1. #1
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Default Type 4: Getting your creation out of your head and into the world

    4s shine brightest when they use their talents and refined taste to create what they envision, supposedly. They use their pain and other intense emotions and transform that into something beautiful, something to share with the world.

    How does this process concretely manifest for you? What makes it tick, what triggers it, how does it get from being a figment of your imagination to a solid piece of art for you to be proud of? And how do you get started? What does it take to block out those negative, sabotaging thoughts of being broken and truly be inspired and fearless in your mission?

    In short, how do you rise as a phoenix from the ashes of your pain?
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  2. #2
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Poetry/lyrics, taking photographs, writing/playing music. Creating art in general seems to be the most natural form of rising above it all. I become determined to fight against the inner demons. I think having self-preservation as dominant instinct leads to having a desire to survive, so caving into misery and feeling broken and defective feels like it will be counterproductive for me to survive in the world. Feeling down and letting myself be weak seems like it's killing myself spiritually, so I feel determined to make it through the pain, as much as it hurts. It almost becomes a challenge, to rise above the pain I feel and search for renewal in the end. It's an up and down battle I face, but just putting everything into perspective helps. Like seeing how much my own inner suffering pales in comparison to the things others in developing countries have to face, or people fearing losing their life due to poverty, war, famine, etc. It all brings my situations into context, that it may hurt now, but it could be a lot worse off, and others encounter deeper sacrifices and toils in life, so I have to deal with things.

    It's all about standing to the blows that you face and having the will to survive, making the most of your life. Not focusing on what is missing, but the very things in front of you that brings you joy and solace. Seeking love, not only in the context of human relationships, but also seeking spiritual love... whichever path you so choose. I think of the chances of being on this planet and the chances of existing, and it makes me feel blessed that at least I am alive and healthy, and that's the important thing. Makes me rise above the sorrows. Survivor mode, pretty much. So in this survivor mode, it ends up becoming pieces of art, literature, music, and even in interactions with others. Reaching out to people and bringing them back on their feet again. Coming up with ways to create social reforms and suggesting it to others. Teaching people. Even simple acts of kindness. Ways to manifest the ideal world into the real world, little by little.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  3. #3
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    I'm about the last person that anyone would accuse of being an artist, but I'll attempt something of a response here.

    In terms of bringing something to the world, and of overcoming obstacles and avoiding distractions, I would say that I am rather emotional person, that I try to see and meet people where they are at, and that I try to keep things open and emotionally honest. I've heard this notion several places, but "leave things better than you found them, and if thats not situationally possible at least try not to make things worse" is pretty good general advice, particularly when dealing with other people.

    4's can be VERY moody people [goodness help us all!] but it also gives us an incredible ability to see into others, see what makes them tick, see what is bothering them, and to help them "process their stuff."

    For me, giving manifestation of my skills and interests [which I'm pretty sure no one has ever called art!] is about helping other people understand at least part of their inner world and helping them to process stuff and to "heal" emotionally, mentally, spiritually, or however.

    I think your ?motto? [really, what is that called? tag line???] about "repurposing anger" is very interesting. I've had multiple spiritual healers point out that "Buddhists* are experts at transmuting negative emotions into positive ones", and I immediately thought of that when I read your motto/tagline/whatever. I don't want to turn this into a teaching Buddhism* post, but I would suggest to you that if might behoove you to look into how the Buddhists* [and others] do such things. I'm not sure how helpful anything I would have to say personally on this matter would be [I'm definitely not without experience on this matter], but I could try if you wanted me to.

    Various thoughts from my past somewhat relating to "repurposing anger":
    -I can't pick or control what other people do, but I can still make my own choices.
    -I am strong enough in character that even though you treated me the way you did instead of reflexively reacting I will process this and make a decision coming from both wisdom and compassion.
    -The consequences of their actions have already been set, but my consequences have not. Choose wisely.
    -IN this moment, right here right now, what will you create? What will you generate? What "legacy" will you leave behind you?
    -What kind of person do you want to be? They did what they did, but don't respond negatively and become a lesser moral person for it.
    -Choose joy
    -Choose happiness
    -choose meaning
    -choose value
    -choose a life worth living
    -if the situation were reversed what do you wish they would do?
    -be happy and share your joy
    -try to leave things better than you found them. if that simply not situationally possible at least try not to make it worse.
    -if absolutely nothing else try to bring more "awareness" to a situation.

    I guess none of the above are really "repurposing" anger so much as making conscious deliberate choices and hoping to be wise about them. Transmutation or repurposing is a much more involved matter&. I would say that, to do it well, requires much more developed abilities with subtle energies and particularly with the anahata chakra. To simply ignore anger, and make a positive constructive choice is definitely easier to pull off.

    *declaration 1: I have significant background in Buddhism, including transmuting negative emotions.
    & declaration 2: I also have background in tantra, which takes transmutation to a whole other far deeper level.

    I remember reading, in a book on shamanism I believe, that compassion, compassion was the right word here right?, literally means "shared suffering." Some people can be healers without having experienced pain themselves. Most healers need to have experienced pain or suffering themself first. Healing can take many forms or methods of expression.

    "They use their pain and other intense emotions and transform that into something beautiful, something to share with the world." "What does it take to block out those negative, sabotaging thoughts of being broken and truly be inspired and fearless in your mission?" "In short, how do you rise as a phoenix from the ashes of your pain?"

    No one is perfect. We all have pain in our background somewhere somehow. Many people feel, at least somewhat, like some part of themself somewhere somehow is broken. One answer is that we all get up from where we are, dust ourselves off, and start moving forward. When we deal with others, we often see how much more difficulty or pain or brokenness that they have than we do, and that [hopefully] motivates us to let go off or at least place less importance on whatever brokenness we may feel inside. Nobody is perfect at everything. Many people are greatful for anothers attention, for anothers goodwil, for anothers "trying" even if our trying didnt actually concretely do very much.

    At the end of the day, we all live our lives make decisions and face their consequences. Don't expect that you will be perfect and don't expect that others will expect you to be perfect. Do the best you can, be grateful for what you have, find joy where you can, be happy and share your joy if you can, and know that everyone has problems and we are basically all in the same boat.

    Does any of that address your questions? Were you looking for something more art-centric? Do I get INFP-healer brownie points for all of this?

    Good luck with repurposing your anger. Anger can motivate people to accomplish things they otherwise wouldn't be able/willing to do. That can be either good or bad depending on the situation. Anger also poisons the one who feels it. It's your life, to the extent that you can make decisions that will serve you well.

  4. #4
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Well, for me, artistic creation isnt about rising like a phoenix from the ashes of my pain, its more something I do because I have a vision at a paticular moment, I dont see it as expressing a necessarily painful experience though. I would say the latter is how romantics(as in the romantic movement of th 19th century, not people who like romance) conceived the artist but it isnt how an artist necessarily functions...I would say I have a desire for a finsihed result so i can be proud of that result later on. The hard part, tome, is about the know-how of working with artistic media(and I know this is the boring part noone wants to hear about) the skill, disclipline and know how it takes to produce works of art. Also connecting whats in your imagination to the artistic media is another hard part. If Im play an instrument for example, I need to understand the particular intrument well, relate to the exact model and experiment with it. Then I research(by listening to music), to see what kind of music I want to play for example, and see whats been done in that style before and take inspiration from that.

    I realize this post is pretty confused, but thats because I never thought about this myself. So to recap its a threefold question of; know-how, discipline, and inspiration. I would say that these three things, know-how, discipline, and inspiration isnt necessarily in any chronological order of happening. In other words, one doesnt necesarily happen first then, second, etc.

  5. #5
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    To create something that I actually put out there for others to see, I basically need some external motivation. A deadline is a big motivating factor for me starting AND finishing something.

    I've become kind of jaded at the idea of art being some transformative process, blah blah. I feel rather mediocre as an artist, so maybe that's why. But I really don't practice enough.

    Creating for myself gets harder as I have all these adult obligations that get in the way, and then when I have free time I just want to do NOTHING. When I do something creative for myself it feels really good though. I can't remember the last time I just took a few hours to sketch or whatever though....
    I do write bad poetry & half-finished stories, but I almost never show it to anyone. This is more of an outlet like the journaling some do, but I don't like to write about my life or feelings, not directly. I like playing with the rhythm and flow of words as much as meaning & I prefer more universal stuff than my own direct experiences. I think I create "characters" a lot for the voices in these writings. It's physically easy to write short things, which is also why I do that more than anything. I feel physically drained & overwhelmed a lot, so that's part of what holds me back from pursuing grander projects.

    I also have to be spontaneous in creating & that's why the everyday life schedule to make ends meet gets in the way; and then worse, my job demands some creativity but is not art, yet I'm still drained by it creatively. Ideas feel like they take physical energy from me, so sometimes I can't follow through on them because I felt like I already exerted myself in just thinking. I have to do stuff as the ideas are coming instead of thinking it all through first, and rarely can I do that.

    Also, if I'm not in the mood, then it doesn't matter if I have an afternoon free where I could make something. I'm not sure how to lasso the "mood" & pull it in on command. Right now, all that works is expectations from others to produce.

    I also am one to volunteer to decorate for a party or something too. If there's some group collaboration, then I usually get the creative tasks. Almost everyday I play around with my appearance; it's as if I am creating characters there too. So I'll take opportunities to be visually creative in little ways. What mostly gets me is not having the time to do something more meaningful & expressive. I put too much pressure on myself then too or take it too seriously, and it loses some of the fun, which then makes me lose motivation.

    The little ways of expressing do have some significance though. A friend of mine told me she loves the way I dress, that the colors & whatnot make her feel happy when she sees me. I think that's the motivation a lot of the time - to simply bring some beauty into an ugly world, even if it's in little ways.
    I may just content myself with being ornamental then, when it comes to creativity. I've prioritized other things over time, so I wouldn't even call myself an artist anymore, although the mentality is still there.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #6
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the contributions so far. Im sort of digesting it all still, so I havent really gotten to the point where I can reply yet, but there is some thought provoking stuff in here for sure. I hope to reply once Ive processed some of the answers in answering the questions I am struggling with.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #7
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    I've gotten into writing contests. I find publications I like and enter the contests which provide a monetary award. Having a deadline brings out my self disciplined and focused side. Money as a carrot stick motivates me because I much prefer the idea of being financially rewarded for something I want to do vs having to get some shitty, extremely depressing job. Seeing what self-discipline and focus creates makes me feel confident and good about myself, which makes me want to be all the more productive in my creative expression. I can be a big time workhorse once I put my mind to something.

    Also, I stay away from mental space/ time sucks like the enneagram. All they do is make me feel more self absorbed and less confident because I'm not using my natural talents and it makes me feel like a waste.

    The most helpful thing I read in the enneagram literature comes from Riso Hudson about fours. I paraphrase-

    Only by learning not to look for themselves will fours find themselves and renew themselves in the process.

    In the moment of inspiration fours are most themselves and most liberated from themselves.


    It's been my experience with myself and all the fours I know that we are all healthier when we step away from self examination and act, especially in a creative capacity, instead.

  8. #8
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    To create something that I actually put out there for others to see, I basically need some external motivation. A deadline is a big motivating factor for me starting AND finishing something.
    Me, too. Sort of. For me, the externality takes the form of tangible feedback that awaits at the end. I am motivated by knowing that my project will leave a tangible imprint on something outside of myself, which I can then take back inside with my senses. The imprint could be a comment from a friend on something I wrote, an image I made on a piece of paper in my hands, or a new color on the walls of my room. Whatever it is, the taking it back in closes an essential circle, like working for food and then eating the food. No promise of food, no compelling enough reason to even begin the project. /questioning my introversion again

    I've become kind of jaded at the idea of art being some transformative process, blah blah. I feel rather mediocre as an artist, so maybe that's why. But I really don't practice enough.
    I've always been this way. Even as a kid, I was insistent that the only meaning and soul behind my work was aesthetics and entertainment, and that those things satisfied me as a purpose. If someone else wants to interpret deeper, they can, and I'd be fascinated to hear their thoughts, but I don't have any such things in mind when I'm creating. I mostly just have making people laugh and jump in mind. It's only recently that I've wanted to do a little more and heal with what I create, so I'm sort of the reverse of how you went through it.

    Creating for myself gets harder as I have all these adult obligations that get in the way, and then when I have free time I just want to do NOTHING.
    So much. Lately, my problem is not knowing what justified place there is for imagination until I've reached a certain level of security. Free time could be used for art, but it could also be used for finding a better place to live, for instance. When I settle down to create something for which the returns would be way more uncertain and personal, I feel slothful.

    Also, if I'm not in the mood, then it doesn't matter if I have an afternoon free where I could make something. I'm not sure how to lasso the "mood" & pull it in on command. Right now, all that works is expectations from others to produce.
    I've heard it advised to forget about the "mood" and work anyway, because the need to be in the mood is really just an excuse not to exert. However, something feels dismissive about that viewpoint. I think the answer lies in the middle: being able to work without it, but still validating it and your personal search for it. Somehow. I'm still working on how.

    Almost everyday I play around with my appearance; it's as if I am creating characters there too.
    Yes.

    I think that's the motivation a lot of the time - to simply bring some beauty into an ugly world, even if it's in little ways.
    I like to think that I'm participating in and acknowledging the world's beauty when I make an effort.

    I may just content myself with being ornamental then, when it comes to creativity. I've prioritized other things over time, so I wouldn't even call myself an artist anymore, although the mentality is still there.
    I relate to this a lot, and I have super mixed feelings about the word "ornamental" and what it means to my own life. Tried to describe them, can't. At least at this moment.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

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  9. #9
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    The answer is thunder !

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #10
    Member Asterism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    Me, too. Sort of. For me, the externality takes the form of tangible feedback that awaits at the end. I am motivated by knowing that my project will leave a tangible imprint on something outside of myself, which I can then take back inside with my senses. The imprint could be a comment from a friend on something I wrote, an image I made on a piece of paper in my hands, or a new color on the walls of my room. Whatever it is, the taking it back in closes an essential circle, like working for food and then eating the food. No promise of food, no compelling enough reason to even begin the project. /questioning my introversion again.
    Even as a kid, I was insistent that the only meaning and soul behind my work was aesthetics and entertainment, and that those things satisfied me as a purpose.
    Both of these. My art and writing are mostly for my own entertainment, which often means I don't bother trying to manifest these things in tangible reality. However, doing so provides me with constructive and emotional feedback, which I crave, and it's ultimately more fulfilling because I have something to look at as evidence that I've impacted the world in some way. It's my own little piece of the tapestry of human creative potential, and thinking of it in those terms staves off a certain amount of my usual feelings of alienation.

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