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  1. #1
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Default Differences between E1 and E8

    I took down the OP because it was over-stated and did not get the point across that I wanted.

    But let's discuss the differences between E1 and E8.

    According to Naranjo:

    E1: Obsessive Perfectionist
    E8: Sadistic Personality
    Last edited by Animal; 03-31-2013 at 03:24 PM.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  2. #2
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post

    E8 walks into a bathroom in a restaurant. The bathroom is disgustingly dirty. Let's assume it's a female E8. She squats, does what she has to do, and leaves a bigger mess. She doesn't bother cleaning up after herself. (If the place was clean in the first place, she would have wiped the seat before she used it and afterwards; but this place didn't take care of their bathroom so fuck em; now they'll have to deal with her mess on top of the mess they already had. She's not dirtying HER hands because of THEIR bullshit.) She washes her hands twice and moves on.
    [/Sadism]
    No. I would immediately let management know about the conditions. I may use the facilities but I wouldn't go out of my way to leave a bigger mess.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    I would not *go out of my way* to leave a bigger mess. It's just that I wouldn't dirty my hands cleaning up after myself, therefore subjecting myself to touching THEIR mess and germs. It's not my problem.

    It's their responsibility to keep up their own facilities, not mine. The only exception would be if it was a restaurant where I ate often, and usually it was clean; or if the rest of their services were fantastic and I thought they might be having an off-day. But the point is, I'm not gonna concern myself with fixing the rest of the world. I'm going to do what I need to do. Dog eat dog world; basic principle of type 8.

    You must be a kinder or healthier sadist than I.

    I am curious, how do you see sadism in yourself?
    Hmm. The only time I have ever gotten pleasure out of inflicting cruelty, pain, humiliation...etc is on my ex-husband. I truly loved crushing him into the nothing he is now.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  4. #4
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    I nodded in agreement at the Type 1 paragraph in the OP, and when I got to the Type 8 paragraph, I actually recoiled in disgust. Why the hell would you do that? You say you're punishing the establishment itself, and its owners, but most of the suffering that will come from further soiling of the place, would be felt by other innocent bathroomgoers JUST LIKE YOU. Probably the most counterproductive form of protest I've heard of in a long time.
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  5. #5
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    E8 walks into a bathroom in a restaurant. The bathroom is disgustingly dirty. Let's assume it's a female E8. She squats, does what she has to do, and leaves a bigger mess. She doesn't bother cleaning up after herself. (If the place was clean in the first place, she would have wiped the seat before she used it and afterwards; but this place didn't take care of their bathroom so fuck em; now they'll have to deal with her mess on top of the mess they already had. She's not dirtying HER hands because of THEIR bullshit.) She washes her hands twice and moves on.
    [/Sadism]
    That's not E8, that's cp 6
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #6
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    Nope. It's sadism.
    Disagreed. It was basically a silly form of payback. And wanting revenge (politically incorrect term) or justice (politically correct term) doesn't make anyone a sadist, as every intelligent human being values reciprocity.

    Another way to look at this is: 8s have no shame, or deny shame. That is the *essence* of what it means to be a sadist. Sadism is, in essence, the denial of shame - you can't be shamed; instead you shame the person who tries to shame you; hence, sadism.
    And I don't think sadism is related to shame.

    So I must wonder what is it here that would motivate a type 6 to do this, based on their most basic nature? Is it fear? Is it paranoia? I don't see any paranoia or fear here. Paranoia about germs is a decent case but then why not just avoid the area altogether? Also 6 is a super ego type. Where is the super ego? Where is the doubt ? Where is the ambivalence about authority? How does this demonstrate in a blunt, disgusting way, the deeper issues of type 6?
    There is more to life than fear and authority - not everything has to revolve around these things for 6s. Problem is cp 6s deal with frustration/anger very poorly, so their coping mechanisms are fairly irrational.

    Also, E8 might be the the least likely type to be content with a quiet anonymous protest in a restroom - they're pretty loud when revolted.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------
    Likes Aurora James liked this post

  7. #7
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    I have to first understand what "disgustingly dirty" entails. Is it a few drops of pee on the toilet seat or is there shit everywhere or what?

  8. #8
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    @Rasofy makes some really good points.

    Sounds like a new (and better) example would be in order? Maybe something more related to dominance and/or power, since that's something Eights really need, and Ones don't care a whole lot about.
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  9. #9
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    @Maybe

    I think your example has more to do with Si than enneagram. And your use of the word "sadism" seems kinda strange to me.

    E8 Sadism is when an 8 spars you and says, "I will fucking destroy you, everything I can do far outweighs anything you could do."
    The other person naturally says something like, "oh yeah hot shot?"
    E8 wins the sparring match and destroys the other person just like they said they would. Other person feels bullied.

    However, I've yet to spar an E1. So I don't know how they fight. They'd probably keep their mouth shut or be pretty noncompetitive.

    As a dude, if I went into a dirty gas station bathroom, I would wipe the toilet seat, then I would put a couple layers of toilet paper onto the seat and do what I gotta do and I wouldn't complain about it. However, I think this also has to do with SLE Si ignoring, and the fact that dirty uncomfortable living conditions are something that ESXP's naturally tuned out when need be. I would primarily be concerned with avoiding std's or something.

    The only thing I know about E1's are what I see from INFP 1's. So I really don't know much about E1's.

  10. #10
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Disagreed. It was basically a silly form of payback. And wanting revenge (politically incorrect term) or justice (politically correct term) doesn't make anyone a sadist, as every intelligent human being values reciprocity.


    And I don't think sadism is related to shame.


    There is more to life than fear and authority - not everything has to revolve around these things for 6s. Problem is cp 6s deal with frustration/anger very poorly, so their coping mechanisms are fairly irrational.

    Also, E8 might be the the least likely type to be content with a quiet anonymous protest in a restroom - they're pretty loud when revolted.
    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I have to first understand what "disgustingly dirty" entails. Is it a few drops of pee on the toilet seat or is there shit everywhere or what?
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    @Rasofy makes some really good points.

    Sounds like a new (and better) example would be in order? Maybe something more related to dominance and/or power, since that's something Eights really need, and Ones don't care a whole lot about.
    Haha at this point i am wishing I didn't make this thread. It came up in sort of a joke conversation with a friend who is an E1. I am seriously on the verge of erasing the original post because I don't think I presented it right and now it's being totally misunderstood, so it's sort of a waste of a thread. Not blaming you guys.

    Anyway, what the scenario was, is this:

    You go into the bathroom and it's absolutely disgusting. Like really bad, not being managed; the place just didn't do their job. What my E1 friend was getting at, is, would you tell the management, and would you try to clean it up for them?

    My response was basically- I will say this now, I'm *very* clean. My house is clean. When I visit a friend, their house is left cleaner. I don't go around making messes. If I see trash on the street, I even pick it up and throw it out if it's not too gross (ie if it's paper rather than food). I'm not a disrespectful, war-mongering freak who goes around trying to fuck shit up. That couldn't be further from the truth.

    However, in a situation where I either have to dirty myself with other people's feces and urine, because management did not do their job, I would be most likely to simply squat, do what I must do, and leave, even if I were to leave a bigger mess than when I came. The only reason for this is because in order to clean it up, I would have to get very, very dirty myself. And I can't really "hold it" and do it somewhere else because I have a chronic illness and such things give me a stomach ache.

    So, what I was saying is, that I have a general mentality where it's not my duty to do someone else's dirty work. I might help out if I'm in the mood, but it's not gonna eat away at me if I don't. That being said, if you're my friend I'll do almost anything for you! If you're my family, ditto. If I'm in a restaurant where I go all the time, and their bathroom is dirty one day, I'll go and tell the management because I look out for my people. But if I just feel like a place is dirty and irresponsible, I'm not going to let it ruin my day in any way. I'll do what I have to do and leave, rather than worry about cleaning it or going out of my way to tell management. This might even be a slight exaggeration. If I had extra time, I'd tell management. If there was a better bathroom nearby, I'd use that one instead. There are a lot of "ifs." And in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM would I piss on the toilet to "get revenge." The mindset is, you didn't do your job so you made it impossible for me to do mine, that's not my problem, and I'm not going to worry about it all day.

    I think I over-stated this in the OP, and it got interpreted in that over-stated way, and blown out of proportion, straying from my original point. The original point that I meant to demonstrate was, while an E1 (like my friend) would get really angry at the state of the world, tell management, and be upset about the state of the world afterwards, I would just accept this as part of the way the world is and use it for what I need because if you give me bullshit, it's not my job to fix it. I would NOT piss on the toilet for revenge, do this to make a point, try to prove something, or any of the other interpretations that were mentioned in this thread!! I am simply saying that I'd take what I need from it and leave, and not think about it any more. That is all. I'm sorry if I did not present this case very well.

    However, there is a noteworthy difference between E1 and E8: One is an obsessive perfectionist, the other is a sadist. Sadists will take what they need from the situation and leave and not feel guilty. Obsessives will try to correct it. That is all I was trying to demonstrate. I am sorry it was so offensive to some of you, but it made sense in my head at the time.
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