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  1. #51
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    What would you say is the difference between E8 and and E1?
    I have some brief thoughts on this -- and since this wasn't directed at me, please, @kyuuei, correct me if I'm wrong and/or add on to this if you kinda/sorta agree but think it's too thin, or something.

    I agree that E8 is about control. I also agree that E1 is about perfectionism. But what I've found is that the E1 need for perfection is only correlated with a desire to take charge to fix things. They only need to take charge if something is wrong and no one is doing anything to fix it. If things are going well, then there's nothing for them to improve, and they can leave it. For E8, as I understand it, there's a need to control and dominate for the sake of power -- and E1 couldn't care less about power.
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  2. #52
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I have some brief thoughts on this -- and since this wasn't directed at me, please, @kyuuei, correct me if I'm wrong and/or add on to this if you kinda/sorta agree but think it's too thin, or something.

    I agree that E8 is about control. I also agree that E1 is about perfectionism. But what I've found is that the E1 need for perfection is only correlated with a desire to take charge to fix things. They only need to take charge if something is wrong and no one is doing anything to fix it. If things are going well, then there's nothing for them to improve, and they can leave it. For E8, as I understand it, there's a need to control and dominate for the sake of power -- and E1 couldn't care less about power.
    I don't think you're necessarily wrong. Type 8's biggest fear is being overpowered by others which would obviously lead to a desire for power and to be in control. Type 1's biggest fear is being morally corrupt, breaking their own moral code so to speak; so yes, this would lead to a compulsive need to improve things because if they just let things be then they're morally corrupt.

    However, these are just pieces of a puzzle. Psychology is complicated. A person wouldn't "only" want to fix things because nobody else is doing it; the need to fix things would be part of their character and would be directed at themselves, too. A person wouldn't want control and power without being willing to crush others in order to get it when they're unhealthy. Like @kyuuei said, nothing is without consequence. A selfish act is going to affect someone else. So, in order to be willing to chase power and control for yourself, and retain it at any cost, you're willing to take power and control away from someone else.

    Any enneagram type, any person, would want power and control to some degree. I dont think there's a single person on earth who would prefer being out of control and powerless, if given the choice? But the difference is the scale of importance that it holds to E8, and that the e8 character is made up in such a way that you're willing to be a bit morally ambiguous, selfish, self-serving, and so forth, in order to acquire that power even at the cost of taking it away from someone else, which still falls under the category of sadism.
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  3. #53
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    @EJCC

    On a personal note - I had a hard time figuring out my enneagram type. I don't think I seek power over others. I don't enjoy hurting others for its own sake. But, it is impossible to get my own power away from me. My only concern is holding on to my own power. I have never seen it as "taking power away from someone else" but rather, just protecting myself. I have a very "draw a line in the sand" mentality. I will be generous, magnanimous, kind, honest, direct; and I will lay out my terms clearly. I'm very accepting of people's personalities and choices. I dominate my own destiny, and nobody can tell me what to do with my life, or control me, but I also have no real desire to control anyone else. As long as someone's personal errors don't get in my way, they're not my problem; but I'm always willing to listen to a friend complain, be there for them, help them build up strength so they can solve it on their own next time rather than depend on me.

    But, in a situation where things do affect me, I don't let anyone walk on me. For instance, I rented an apartment in NYC where I saved up a lot of money, built rooms in a loft, and had people move in to the rooms. I also lived there. I charged really low rent; becasue of the way I broke up the apartment cleverly and the neighborhood and so forth, it was one of the best deals in the city. My own rent was pretty low, but I had initially laid out $10,000 of my own money to build the rooms so I thought that was fair; and their rent was still really really low. Everyone wanted to live there. I had a month to month situation; you can leave on a month's notice. It was easy to get someone else to fill the room fast. I did this for five years. I could have collected more rent but I was generous. I always had a security deposit just in case, but for the most part I just trusted people to do their own thing as long as they paid on time. However, a lot of people thought they could take advantage - would ask for even lower rent, refuse to pay the electric bill, would smoke inside when it was clearly laid out that this isn't allowed because I'm allergic to smoke, would repeatedly leave huge messes. I would give one warning, maybe two if the infraction wasn't too bad, when it came to smoke or messes or general disrespect. When it came to rent there were no warnings. If you can't pay rent, you come to me and explain your case, and show me that you'll have it by a set date, and I have to have some reason to trust you and to know that your security deposit will cover me if you don't follow through. If you just skip out on rent I'm not going to sit there and let you fuck me over. So, I would tell the person "I've used your security deposit to pay rent. If you can't get the security back to me by the end of this week I'll have to fill your room with someone else. You are welcome to stay on the couch until you find a place and keep your things in boxes in the common area." To me, that was generous, and really kind, but some people considered it ruthless. It's just obvious to me that people can't make their problems into *my* problem. I'll take on someone's problems out of kindness (ie, you can sleep on the couch) but I won't have patience for someone repeatedly not paying rent and leaving me in a vulnerable position.

    When I first moved in, all the roommates left paychecks under the super's door. One girl simply didn't pay her portion for about six months, and I had no idea until the super told me that we were missing all of this rent. I sat her down with all the roommates, and questioned her about why she did this, how she could be so sneaky; basically shamed her until she was crying. It was not my conscious intention to shame her but that is what happened because she put me in a vulnerable position and she was deceptive, and she may not have realized that as nice as I am, I don't take any shit from anyone under any circumstance. I did not insult her, but simply asked questions until she was crying and saying she would find some way to get the money to us or borrow it or something. After that, I took control and collected everyone's rent myself from then on so that I couldn't be deceived anymore ; and needless to say, I kicked her out.

    Another girl , who was a great roommate, was questioning me about some of my choices - how much I charged, how I layed things out, etc. She questioned me relentlessly, asking me to bring up numbers and math that I'd worked out three years prior. I finally said to her, "If you want to start an apartment, save up thousands of dollars to build rooms, manage it, go on craigslist to find roommates, interview people, keep it clean, put your name on the lease; be my guest, but if you live in my apartment, you pay wht you agree to pay, and agree to my rules." I not only got my point across, but earned her respect to such a degree that she actually "looks up to me" and comes to me for advice. We're still friends.

    So I would not say I'm controlling, domineering, or power-seeking as much as, I just won't put up with any level of deception or bullshit if it affects *me* and *my* life and choices. When I'm in charge, I don't take well to being told I should do things another way - a lot of complicated math and reason goes into figuring out how to be a leader and run a place. These sort of principles are firm within me. If you try to take away what's mine, or step on my territory so that I can't be comfortable there, I'll extract you from the situation as politely, directly, honestly, and compassionately as I can, but still firmly; and if you deceive me, I'll let that be known, even publicly if that's the only way I'm going to get money out of you that you owe me and you deceived me out of.

    To sum it up, I don't get off on having power over others. I'd rather be left to my own devices and not be THREATENED or OVERPOWERED by others. I will do what it takes to ensure that this is the case.

    This is what I'll be like for my whole life, and I would not consider it unhealthy. Some of the more sadistic things I did when I was unhealthy, years ago, were unwarranted.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  4. #54
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'm going to approach this my usual way, for whatever it's worth.

    1s navigate people and society in an anticipating, correcting way. 1s have somewhat of a reputation for being crusaders but their personality is only so condusive to actually crusading because there's a lot of cautious pausing to reassess what needs to be done. It's rather dependent on the environment. 8s are much more self-determined and aggressive. They are more inclined to set their eyes on a prize and say "over hell or high water, consequences be damned". They are pursuers through and through.

    I think the difference between 1s and 8s that's much more obvious and tangible to people is an emotional difference. 1s are a type that almost indiscriminately suppress their emotions. A 1 seeks to achieve things in spite of their emotions, attempting to divorce it from their convictions. This can work, or it can just result in a bad case of denial. 8s on the other hand embrace their emotions much more. 8s are willing to embrace the power of emotions and don't seem particularly ashamed of emotional justification for things. Passion vs dispassion is one the biggest differences between the 1 and the 8 I think.
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  5. #55
    Member Savitri's Avatar
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    Actual bathroom situation happened to me once. I got management to clean the bathroom.

    My tush got a clean toilet to sit on. Imagine that.

  6. #56
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri View Post
    Actual bathroom situation happened to me once. I got management to clean the bathroom.

    My tush got a clean toilet to sit on. Imagine that.
    .... happened to you *once* ?


    I guess that's another difference between me and the other people on this thread.

    I lived in Brooklyn, NYC for 5 years.
    When you're working your ass off to pay NYC rent, who has time to wait around for management?
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  7. #57
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    .... happened to you *once* ?


    I guess that's another difference between me and the other people on this thread.

    I lived in Brooklyn, NYC for 5 years.
    When you're working your ass off to pay NYC rent, who has time to wait around for management?
    Yeah. I would just go to another place with a toilet if possible. If that one is crappy too... well that sucks for me lol. I mean, I could do it on the street if I must. That's not an impossibility assuming you can hide enough in a corner somewhere.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  8. #58
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Anyway, this video is such a great exposition of the unhealthy 1 mind:



    I can't think of any unhealthy 8 example as of this moment.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  9. #59
    Member Savitri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    .... happened to you *once* ?


    I guess that's another difference between me and the other people on this thread.

    I lived in Brooklyn, NYC for 5 years.
    When you're working your ass off to pay NYC rent, who has time to wait around for management?
    I tend to not go to public restrooms. And yes on that particular day, it was nice and chill.
    LIE-Ni * SCOEI * Te/Fi * 1-7-3 The Systems Builder

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