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  1. #1
    Member Vergil's Avatar
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    Default How would you react to being called "vengeful" by someone close to you?

    Hello, my fellow E1s.

    The title is self explanatory. Regardless, I will be providing a background.

    The larger, more encompassing question is:

    How would you deal with being accused of a thing you consider unbecoming of you?

    EDIT: Not much of a background. I think I have a thing for being terse. =/
    Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive.

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  2. #2
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    I'm not a 1, but I'll answer anyway. =)

    How would you react to being called "vengeful" by someone close to you?
    This happened to me recently. I was angry at someone, and was complaining to someone else, saying I thought that he had wronged me and betrayed me, and I would only forgive if he would grovel. Someone else pointed out to me that this was vengeful sadistic thinking; to expect someone to grovel when they're clearly going through a hard time and this is why they did things that felt like "betrayal" to me in the first place. She said I was only thinking about myself and not about the other person; failing to see it from his side. It was said to me as part of a long speech and in the manner of "dude, wake the fuck up, look at yourself." I actually started crying because I knew she was right. I'd been angrier and angrier, and I was so angry I was almost losing touch with reality, or perhaps seeing things in black and white rather than looking at the whole picture and the other person's point of view. When this was pointed out to me, plainly and clearly, my anger kind of "broke" into tears. I approached the other person in a much nicer way than I might have otherwise. And I thanked the person for pointing this out to me so boldly, and apologized if I'd made her uncomfortable. It was a heartfelt apology. I thought about myself for days, and it helped me to recognize some of the pitfalls of my own thinking and to see through myself. So, I will say that because it was the truth, I did not react badly, even in a moment of anger. The plain, straight declaration of the truth of my behavior was clear for me to see even when I was so far gone in anger.

    I've had a hard time seeing sadism and vengeance in myself until recently. (And this makes sense because part of Type 8 is denial. What an 8 sees as practical and survivalist, can actually manifest in vengeful or sadistic thinking.) To me, I'm just doing what's practical and taking care of myself and refusing to let anyone take advantage of me or threaten me. I don't put up with abuse. I could not see my behavior as sadistic or vengeful without serious self-examination. So, in the past, had anyone called me vengeful, I probably would have shrugged it off and told them "Hmm? Me? Nope." And thought nothing of it. But now that I've seen it in myself I'd really rather not hear about it from people who don't actually experience my vengeance and anger, if that makes sense. If I open up to someone about my thoughts about myself or my enneatype, I'm trusting them with some of my deeper self-realizations, and I would feel disrespected if someone used this information and trust against me, or used it to make themselves seem better than me. But if it's just a discussion, I'm fine. It really depends on how I perceive the other person's motives.

    How would you deal with being accused of a thing you consider unbecoming of you?
    No matter what the thing is, I would probably handle it similarly to what I described above, but let me be specific:

    - If I think you're correct about me but my behavior is unbecoming, I'd still thank you for pointing it out, and have the utmost respect for you for seeing through me, calling me on my bullshit, and having the balls to tell me. It's easy to stand up to your enemies or people you don't know, but telling a friend is harder; so I'd see that this person really cared about me, was brave, and had the balls to see through me and approach me. So, I might feel shitty inside, but I'd have nothing but warm feelings for the person who took the time to help me see through myself.

    - If your presumption about my unbecoming behavior is based on something that I don't think is substantial, I'll probably explain my point of view if you're a friend, but if you won't listen and you continue holding on to the accusation, I might be distant for a while, because I don't like being misunderstood, misread, and told that I'm different than I am. In fact, it also turns me off if a person tells me I'm generous and amazing when I know I'm being a jerk. I want to keep it real, so to speak. The "becoming" or "unbecoming" part is almost irrelevant, except that when someone points out what's unbecoming about me, I recognize that this takes courage if they're trying to help me, but if they're doing it to one-up me or to make me feel bad, they're not worth my time. Their motives and tone are crucial. If someone says something bad about me and it's off-base, but I can see that they respect me and want to help me, I can chalk it up to a difference of opinion and forget about it quickly. If they approach me in a critical, judgemental way, and act like they're better than me, and look down on me or pity me or act like I ought to feel shame, it's simply not going to happen. I don't have any (conscious recognition of) shame, so trying to shame me will most likely lead to the other person feeling ashamed or moronic rather than me, because I simply will not be falling for it.

    - If someone points out unbecoming behavior and I recognize it in myself, I will probably think about it a lot and try to understand why I do this and whether I should fight the compulsions and attempt to weed out the behavior. Contrarily if it's behavior I don't recognize in myself, the whole thing would just roll off at best, or at worst, I'll show you the error in your judgement.
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  3. #3
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    Hello, my fellow E1s.

    The title is self explanatory.
    I'm not sure about the question in the title. I think I'd be upset, because I'm not vengeful, and I don't like being misunderstood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    The larger, more encompassing question is:

    How would you deal with being accused of a thing you consider unbecoming of you?
    Depends on whether I think they're justified. I'd be upset either way, but I'd be mortified if they were right, i.e. if I really WAS acting in that unbecoming way. If they were wrong, then, like I said above, I'd be upset that they misunderstood me, and I'd immediately move to defend myself -- because I want people to view me as I am.

    Edit: I just saw the "someone close to you" qualifier -- and that alters my answer to how I'd react if they were wrong. I wouldn't just be kind of upset, but would instead be extremely upset, because there'd be the added factor of "How can they see me in this incorrect way, after all these years?? I thought we KNEW each other!"
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  4. #4
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    Anytime someone close to me accuses me of something I'm not, I almost immediately drop them out of my life unconsciously.

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    Member Vergil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm not sure about the question in the title. I think I'd be upset, because I'm not vengeful, and I don't like being misunderstood.

    Depends on whether I think they're justified. I'd be upset either way, but I'd be mortified if they were right, i.e. if I really WAS acting in that unbecoming way. If they were wrong, then, like I said above, I'd be upset that they misunderstood me, and I'd immediately move to defend myself -- because I want people to view me as I am.

    Edit: I just saw the "someone close to you" qualifier -- and that alters my answer to how I'd react if they were wrong. I wouldn't just be kind of upset, but would instead be extremely upset, because there'd be the added factor of "How can they see me in this incorrect way, after all these years?? I thought we KNEW each other!"


    Thank you...
    I feel less awkward for having felt super upset now. xD

    Will elaborate in a while.
    Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive.

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    Member Savitri's Avatar
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    Depends how close I am to the accuser. If this person is someone I consider has thorough knowledge of my personality, I'd probably develop an overwhelming feeling of guilt in failing to see it myself. I'd immediately take steps in reversing the damage done.

    If the person does not meet my requirements as a valid critic, I'd probably laugh and say they're imagining things. Acting on veangence or anything beneath me is quite impossible for me to fathom. Fortunately veangence is not something I consider beneath me because it's natural to want justice where justice is due.

    So the key here is to provide evidence that my veangence is unjustified.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    Hello, my fellow E1s.

    The title is self explanatory. Regardless, I will be providing a background.

    The larger, more encompassing question is:

    How would you deal with being accused of a thing you consider unbecoming of you?

    EDIT: Not much of a background. I think I have a thing for being terse. =/
    I would probably mark them off from being a friend I could count on. I don't know if I have some One in me or not. Either way, I don't believe that it's my first type. I know Ones often get accused of being hypocritical, because the motives behind good works can be sort of self-righteous moves, but my point is, if your anger or vengeance is coming from something you are truly hurt or violated over, then your friend needs to blow off the judgments and try to understand where you are coming from. If it isn't coming from a hurt spot and you are doing it as a way to boost your own image or entitlement to something, which can be a One's weakness, then I would say you need to rethink your argument and trust me, people appreciate when you humble yourself to admit your foul and maybe if necessary even apologize, although I don't believe in handing out apologies, only when someone else was actually offended. If it had no effect on them, then save it.

    Let me add though, even if you were being unreasonable, a good friend can put up with some of it and every now and then maybe politely say something about it.

  8. #8
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri View Post
    If the person does not meet my requirements as a valid critic, I'd probably laugh and say they're imagining things. Acting on veangence or anything beneath me is quite impossible for me to fathom. Fortunately veangence is not something I consider beneath me because it's natural to want justice where justice is due.

    So the key here is to provide evidence that my veangence is unjustified.
    And this is why me and 1s get along.

    Difference is, I don't even bother enacting revenge where it is "due" because I'm just too damn selfish. I'll do what it takes to get someone out of my way and make sure they know not to mess with me. If they're not in my way, I don't care if they "pay" for what they did, or whether they learn their lesson or not; it's their problem, not mine. 1s can be pretty awesome because they'll actually take the time to make someone pay because it's deserved; because what they did isn't right. This kind of behavior & stories tickles my pickle and appeals to my sense of justice, though. Me and my close friend growing up were a terror team, and she was a 1. We just fed off each other in this sense and had a lot of debates about right & wrong, justice, revenge, whether it's worth it or not, etc. We could laugh about this "evil" nonsense all day.
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  9. #9
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Also not a 1, but had someone I've known well for 2 years accuse me of something unflattering very recently. I was very upset at first. Then I ran the accusation by my closest friend, who said that they received the exact same accusation out of the exact same person last year. That told me it had a lot more to do with the accuser's worldview than anything to do with me.

    Some people feel like vengeance is fair and good; others think that it just obfuscates and adds to injustice and hurt. The accusation may well have more to do with the values of the accuser than of your personal character.

  10. #10
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    I would just be like "um I know, and I'm working on it."

    Ha ha ha at all the people who take offense to it.

    I just find it funny that people would be offended that they were seen as vengeful.

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