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  1. #11
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I really hoped this thread was going to be about Vengeance and Evening Wear because of how the title cut off.

    I is disappoint. :<
    Hmm. How to combine these two things? I suppose I could wear my evening wear into town and strut around before my exes like "you can't have me teehee." Or, I could wear my evening wear and tie up an SO to my bed and have my way, though that's kind of fake-vengeance. Or, I could show up at my nemesis' house wearing my leopard print lingerie to distract him while I beat him in a round of swordplay? Or next time I'm mad at my parents I could wear it to their house and think to myself "Look how bad you fucked me up, that now I feel the need to visit you in lingerie." Or I could wear it around the house next time I'm pissed at the people I live with so his friends will talk about me all night while he's bored out of his mind. HmmmmMm. So many possibilities
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  2. #12
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    tritype 827 ...i think
    maybe 837.

    i think more 827.


    How do you relate to the type 8 passion for vengeance?
    Do you like to watch others suffer, or do you just feel like you're "evening the score?"

    i fantasize about it a lot, like it's such a guilty pleasure.
    how i'll take them down. i'm now toying with patience,
    like if i wait long enough, they'll crash and burn on their
    own, and oh that's very satisfying to see also. but is only
    with certain people. i usually don't care enough, more
    concerned for the entertainment value.

    Would anyone be willing to share concrete examples or stories of how this has played out in your life?
    he ended up in a coma. even though he woke up from it,
    not allll of him did. just parts of him.
    aww a little shelly shell shell.

    If you've seen vengeful patterns in yourself, have you done anything to try to fix this behavior, or do you see it as a good thing, a self-protective mechanism you would never want to change?
    parts of me feel shame for it, because i have seen the
    aftermath of it is like and my own obliviousness to what is like
    the 'right amount' of being vindictive. however it doesn't necessarily
    make me go about changing it, it does make me get into the mindframe
    of wanting to be "good".

    but as i've aged i don't feel it's a matter or being 'good' or 'bad' anymore.
    it makes me want to self-evaluate and want to understand why i am the
    way i am and just channel it in a non destructive way.

    Has this calmed or changed over the course of your life?
    i think i just got better at choosing people i wanted to spend my energy on

    Do you see vengeance and sadism in your behaviors as a young child?
    mm more of a very, very protective role. i used to run in front of things
    with my arms out to protect the weaker. like i'd 'take' the punishment instead
    if i could.

    If you get revenge or "even the score," how do you feel afterwards?
    it's more 'in the moment' that feels great. i don't think about it afterwards.

    Has this sort of behavior or thinking caused problems in your life or in your relationships?
    sure, but it never bothered me. it's very 'whatevs'.
    however, i'm in a relationship now where my partner
    understands this about me, and it's made channeling
    the ragey energy like.. omg. so good.

    Have you used your enneagram study to help you recognize and reconcile some of your vengeance patterns? Was it easy for you to see vengeance in yourself?
    mmm. the words on paper help make sense of the jumble in my brain.
    i'll read some stuff, especially naranjo's and think that's mee!

    Do you ever feel disgusted with yourself for being cruel or for how angry you get?
    haha no! i feel disgusted when i don't go ALL OUT.

    Would you consider your vengeance more 'angry' or 'cold-hearted?'
    honestly, i think the more i display emotion,
    the more it undermines my vengeance. and
    gets in the way. in my head it's all very ruthless.
    but man, execution-wise... people mistaken my
    anger for cuteness. grrr.

    i had to learn to like, not inflect. low monotone.

    Does your idea of "evening the score" apply to yourself, too? In other words, if you fuck up, do you feel like it's fair for the other person to expect you to own up to what you did? Are you willing to apologize and earn back their respect in this instance?
    golly, of course not. am selfish.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  3. #13
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    as an 8-2-6 or 7

    How do you relate to the type 8 passion for vengeance? very well, vengeance warms the cockles of my heart by allowing me to feel like there is SOME form of justice in the universe!

    Do you like to watch others suffer, or do you just feel like you're "evening the score?" as noted above, the score must be evened... they have to have done something REALLY bad for me to take delight in their suffering

    Would anyone be willing to share concrete examples or stories of how this has played out in your life?

    sure! my ex-fiance thought that cheating on me with my friend, in my bed and on my birthday was a good plan, therefore I set out to set things even

    I slept with his best friend
    I slept with his roommate
    I slept with his advising professor in a guarantee that he wouldn't get a good letter of recommendation into grad school (and therefore he wasn't accepted into ANY program)
    I slept with the girl, and she said I was better

    and then I spent the next year slowly fattening his vain ass up until his self image was destroyed by an extra 60 lbs

    oh, and I turned the papers over to the court people in an embezzling case against him since he forgot them in my possession and pawned the engagement ring for a long distance booty call

    I think that I made my point, that I'm not to be fucked with

    If you've seen vengeful patterns in yourself, have you done anything to try to fix this behavior, or do you see it as a good thing, a self-protective mechanism you would never want to change?

    as my vengeance is proportionate to the crime against me that originates it, I see no need to curb it... I've discovered that being feared is rather effective in some ways

    Has this calmed or changed over the course of your life?

    I've gotten sneakier! I haven't punched anyone in YEARS!

    Do you see vengeance and sadism in your behaviors as a young child?

    not sadism... outside of the bedroom I don't tend to dip into that much, but I've always been a vengeful little bitch

    If you get revenge or "even the score," how do you feel afterwards?

    satisfied

    Has this sort of behavior or thinking caused problems in your life or in your relationships?

    I'm pretty straightforward about my flaws, so it's expected and therefore hasn't caused many problems (that I remember)

    Have you used your enneagram study to help you recognize and reconcile some of your vengeance patterns? Was it easy for you to see vengeance in yourself?

    I embrace my dark side... why reconcile it?

    Do you ever feel disgusted with yourself for being cruel or for how angry you get?

    no, I have enough other things to be disgusted by myself for

    Would you consider your vengeance more 'angry' or 'cold-hearted?'

    angry... I do angry well

    Does your idea of "evening the score" apply to yourself, too? In other words, if you fuck up, do you feel like it's fair for the other person to expect you to own up to what you did? Are you willing to apologize and earn back their respect in this instance?

    I'm tough on others but I'm even tougher on myself, it only seems fair. Still trying to prove myself worthy of humanity after a few years of bad behavior
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #14
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I really hoped this thread was going to be about Vengeance and Evening Wear because of how the title cut off.

    I is disappoint. :<
    Just even the score, you'll feel much better.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #15
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I really hoped this thread was going to be about Vengeance and Evening Wear because of how the title cut off.

    I is disappoint. :<
    Is Bond an E8?

    As far as vengeance is concerned, I don't waste energy on resentments. But if someone shafted me bad and years later, an opportunity presents itself without any work on my part, I have no problems or experience any remorse knifing them in the face. What good is vengeance if they don't know where it came from?

  6. #16
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    @andante

    James Bond changes. I'd say he goes from 3, to 7. I don't think any of them were 8 though, I don't remember seeing james bond getting pissass drunk and passing out in between 12 women while snorting cocaine then throwing things at people who look at him funny.

  7. #17
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    @DJ Arendee, yeah, per Bond, they flex around so it's difficult to tell.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Hi @Animal.

    I'm not a core 8, and I understand this thread is way old and my response is way late. But my 8-fix has become uber-massively inflated these days, and I really need some place to work out what this means to me, and just vent. So, I'll dignify you with a response.


    How do you relate to the type 8 passion for vengeance?
    At first I didn't relate to this at all. I honestly thought I could identify with 1's "wrath" more than 8s "vengeance", especially since, as a core 4, I get frustrated and have strains of perfectionism.

    Then life happened to me, and having gotten into the paradigm in depth, I see how I relate to vengeance:

    Basically, people are degrading assholes, and I want comeuppance for what they take at my expense. I just want things to be fair. It's not a generalized sense of justice and how the world "should" be, like with 1s...it's just a sense that people have hurt me, and now I'm going to hurt people so we are even.

    And it goes global. It's impossible for me to get back at, say, the man who cheated me into buying a counterfeit phone...so the rage sort of solidifies somewhere inside me and just becomes a general bad attitude toward the entire society that encourages this behavior. EVERYONE is relegated to scum in my eyes, so I have no qualms about treating people poorly. It's them or me.

    It doesn't look too pleasant in writing, but that's more or less the psychology of it (as an Fi-dom 4w5, it probably manifests less extremely than it feels).

    Do you like to watch others suffer, or do you just feel like you're "evening the score?"
    I don't really like to watch others suffer (beyond an inherent sadism that I think is common to all human beings, e.g., scaring cats with mirrors). I just want to even the score in a cruel world--I don't even want to watch those people suffer per se, I just want to be paid back for what they took from me. I suffered at their hands, now it's their turn to suffer at mine.

    Would anyone be willing to share concrete examples or stories of how this has played out in your life?
    I'm not a core 8, so it's less of a theme with me. But here are a couple of notes:

    As a child, I was prone to impulsive violence (like punching a friend who accidentally bumped into me--which I didn't realize was accidental at the time). I was disobedient and willful and didn't take well to punishment. But for the most part I was an Fi-dom 4w5 shadow-on-the wall in most public capacities.

    Without mincing words...in the last 4 years, I've been kicked out of a country, left for dead by my own parents, had my illness laughed into the ground by the medical establishment, starved half to death, been attacked and robbed of the only possession that gave my life meaning, been monetarily cheated innumerable times, and have been treated like a walking ATM at times when I've been too physically ill to stand up. It all seems to have revolved around money--I was treated so poorly just because of cash.

    So I've pretty much turned into a belligerent asshole who automatically assumes that you're trying to cheat my ass. You're an enemy and will be treated as such; I suffer because of your greed and calculation. When I say I've "gone feral"...I don't mean that in a sexy raw and primal way, I mean that in a mange-ridden, flea bitten, animal that will fight you over scraps of food in the trash.

    When something important was stolen from me, I basically organized a street gang to hunt down the folks who did it. It didn't work out--I didn't really have the funds to pay my own "army"--but I guess what I'm saying here is that the "vengeance" thing can be small, impulsive, and personal; or it can be vast and strategic. Either way, it comes from a sense of having suffered at the hands of a pitiless world.

    If you've seen vengeful patterns in yourself, have you done anything to try to fix this behavior, or do you see it as a good thing, a self-protective mechanism you would never want to change?
    I see it as a good thing and I don't want to go back to being nice and polite; though it occurs to me that in this state you could really trample an innocent person.

    Has this calmed or changed over the course of your life?
    I'm not a core 8, so it's really only these issues that have sparked off in a bad situation, rather than a matter of it "getting worse". In some ways, I'm better because I don't impulsively punch friends anymore.

    Do you see vengeance and sadism in your behaviors as a young child?
    Not as much as my 4 issues. Refer to question 3.

    If you get revenge or "even the score," how do you feel afterwards?
    Vindicated, relieved. (If my current issues were somehow evened, I'd prolly finally be able to mourn for what was lost.)

    Has this sort of behavior or thinking caused problems in your life or in your relationships?
    I am not in prison yet.
    I don't have the relationships to judge quite how messed up I've become in a more intimate sphere.
    On less intimate level, people basically just think I'm rude and arrogant.

    Have you used your enneagram study to help you recognize and reconcile some of your vengeance patterns? Was it easy for you to see vengeance in yourself?
    It's funny...I knew the enneagram for a number of years. Then that crap happened. I really thought it was just "survival" and "bad folks who ought to be shot". When I read through type 8 again, I was like, "Why do I identify with this so much??" Then I sort of went into denial and tried to make myself believe I was really just a cp6.

    When I stopped being stupid, it all became so clear.

    And yes, I want to use this to heal myself, but I'm still in a crisis situation here.

    Do you ever feel disgusted with yourself for being cruel or for how angry you get?
    No, although sometimes embarrassed by my obnoxious behavior in retrospect.

    Would you consider your vengeance more 'angry' or 'cold-hearted?'
    Well, I am a triple reactive 4, so sure it's 'angry' as opposed to 'cold-hearted'.

    But, if there is no way to obtain recourse, the anger sort of solidifies within and I just start getting antisocial.

    Does your idea of "evening the score" apply to yourself, too? In other words, if you fuck up, do you feel like it's fair for the other person to expect you to own up to what you did? Are you willing to apologize and earn back their respect in this instance?
    Yes. If I fuck up, by all means, I deserve it. The other person SHOULD treat me like shit.

    Though I'd have to realize my own sin before I apologized and/or accepted it. If I still thought I was right--no deal, Jedi.

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