User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 16

  1. #1
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    2,319

    Default Misconceptions of 8w9's

    I feel like there are some misconceptions of 8w9's. First I will present my thoughts, then I ask for your perspective.

    1. They look scary

    Most of the 8w9's I've met (at least under the age of 20) have been the least scary people I've met. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they're the kinds of people who people would often mistake kindness for weakness. One kid I used to know in the military, either 8w9 or 9w8, would say "I refuse to fight back" and people would just pick on him constantly and he would just put up with it. We felt sorry for him and at the same time were frustrated and would tell him, "dude... kick the guy in the nuts... do SOMETHING." In this respect he's very very stubborn. Its hard to say if he's 9w8 or 8w9. Another guy I knew, people would say "He's the dumbest f***ing person I've ever met." He was an ISTP 8w9, very jolly and incredibly nice (almost too nice) but as time went by his smile started to turn upside down.

    I myself have had people tell me to stand up for myself, when my response to that is, "I don't even know when I'm being attacked!" or "Its exhausting to have to keep my guard up constantly!"

    In high school I used to be the same way. I didn't want to fight, and I wanted non-violence. But over the years I started to realize that not everyone appeals to the golden rule and I've had to take measures to defend myself. One, by taking tae kwon do so I could physically defend myself, and two, by becoming a gymnast to get stronger and more physically capable than anyone in high school so I could defeat any of the "breakdancers" and conquer the competitive realm.

    With that being said, I think the idea that most 8w9's are walking clones of clint eastwood and charles bronson is bollocks. (I'd even be willing to argue that clint eastwood is a 5). I think some of these guys who said "I refuse to fight" feel as if its not a big deal because they can tolerate the pain and don't actually care (whether that's true or not, 9 neglect? ).

    In the military there was a saying, "watch out for the quiet ones." The reason being, their capabilities are often overlooked.

    2. More powerful than 8w7's

    This might be because 8w7's are more prone to openly bragging etc, and more on the offensive than 8w9's. The 7 wing brings about an energetic outgoing people orientation which also makes them more energetic, and as head types, more aware of their internal needs. Since they talk more, their strengths and weaknesses may be more visible than an 8w9. But in my personal experience, I've yet to meet an 8w7 who people mess with. I think the 9 wing creates an unawareness of their emotions moreso than the 7 wing, which makes it more explosive and bottled up, which can make them look scarier because its higher in magnitude but less in consistency.

    3. Unintelligent, incapable of intellectualism, animalistic brutes

    This is simply a misconception that pretense denotes intelligence. For example, someone who says a simpleton phrase like, "I like blue" or "I like you" with no real context, is not necessarily unintelligent... they're just unaware of the context of their own words in a situation or how it makes them look. For example, when I walk into a rec center unshaven with dirt on my face wearing a russian fussy hat and a wrinkled nylon button up shirt with rolled up sleeves, and I say "Where can I find a place to sleep?" They're going to think I'm a hobo and give me 2 free passes to the rec center for showers. (true story, lol).

    I've debated the idea that I am a 7 wing because of my love for adventure, "intellectual capacity" and "head energy" as many have pointed out. However I have traits that are unmistakably 9 at my core, such as my ability to meld with dates' personalities to judge if they're worth being with or not. (this causes a lot of 2 week long relationships with no physical intimacy and an appearance of being "extremely judgemental"). My INTJ mother once tactfully reminded me, "yeah you're kinda slow" despite what people on the internet think of me, lol.

    4. Being nice makes you an 8w9

    Again this is something I think both types can be, however what specifically makes a 9 wing a 9 wing, is the internal force field inside their psyche that deflects any sort of introspection. For example, to me, when I try to think about why I do something, it feels like I'm just sorta diving into a dark nebula and everything is very vague and hard to piece together and I just get lost the harder I think about it, so I often depend on others to tell me what's emotionally best for me because I legitimately don't know for myself (and then I get pissed off when people tell me what's best for me and its not). I find E9's are incredibly hard to type because they never know how to answer any of the questions you ask them about themselves. This is what makes a 9 wing, while I believe a 7 wing is marked primarily by a complete awareness of the self which makes for a completely assertive personality. In a nutshell, I know what I want, and I hate it when people try to stop me, but if you ask me what I want in life, I'll have difficulty telling you, I just know. And my life often feels like a spacial field of gravity wells, where as I drift through space, people try to suck me toward them to join their agenda, when I need to keep on track with my own (E9 melding with other people).

    One person on another website, when comparing me to someone else said, "Joe [8w7] feels like a tree, while DJ Arendee feels like a hollow tree with very thick walls." Just a point of view I felt was rather interesting.

    5. Dignified appearance

    This, I've experienced first hand. On the daily basis I'm just a kid looking to make jokes etc. I'm not very serious, and no one takes me seriously either, and I used to not expect them to.

    However, when I teach, or counsel others... suddenly people start respecting me. After quieting a hysterical woman I had several people say, "I underestimated you..." However these teacher/loving/kindness/counsellor moments are few and far between. Until those happen, I'm in boredom central.

    I believe the path toward appearing big and powerful is something the 8w9 learns how to do slowly over time based on experience (or very quickly if they're raised in a hostile environment).

    So that's all I got, what are your thoughts? Anything to add?

    edit: Something I'd like to add, I don't know how it is with other 8w9 instinctual variants, but one description I read said that the Sx/So searches for their soul mate. Once this happens it becomes "us vs the world." The 8w9 Sx/So allows their soul mate into their psychological void, or empty space.

    To me it feels like this:

    I am the robot that often times remains slow and clumsy until the warlock comes in and uses its psychic power to energize me. Its hard to explain, but I find some NFJ's know how to "power me on" so to speak and I feel what many ESTP's can identify with, feeling "socially indestructible" and I start to feel unstoppable. Though I suspect that could also just be an ESTP thing specifically. Though this could also be a self esteem issue as well. The 8w9 must have high self esteem to be regarded highly by others, and its often readily apparent?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    I've never encountered many of these misconceptions before. When should 8s look scary and how do they look scary? I find that it's often CP6s who are more prone to have this attitude of looking tougher than they are by exaggerating and overreacting so they put things to the very extreme. So if they're angry, it's not just "I'm angry", but it's "I'm so fucking angry now you godamn little nigger motherfucker ya better not mess with me you know what I'm saying 'cus if you do you know you're more than a dead man!" kind of deal. I find that CP6s, especially unhealthy ones, try very hard to use direct intimidation as a technique in order to make other people scared of them so they can actually avoid dealing further with the conflict.

    An 8 in contrast will probably just approach it very calmy and drag it out since they enjoy it in contrast.
    2. More powerful than 8w7's

    This might be because 8w7's are more prone to openly bragging etc, and more on the offensive than 8w9's. The 7 wing brings about an energetic outgoing people orientation which also makes them more energetic, and as head types, more aware of their internal needs. Since they talk more, their strengths and weaknesses may be more visible than an 8w9. But in my personal experience, I've yet to meet an 8w7 who people mess with. I think the 9 wing creates an unawareness of their emotions moreso than the 7 wing, which makes it more explosive and bottled up, which can make them look scarier because its higher in magnitude but less in consistency.
    Never encountered this before. I am not sure either wing is going to make the 8 more powerful, but I think an 8w7 is going to at first glance be more intensely intimidating with their anger because they in contrast, derive fun from it in a way an 8w9 does not. When I imagine an 8w7, it's like going into battle and just do it because you love the battle and you are all crazy. I think in fiction, the berserker kind of archetype tends to very often be an 8w7. It's going to be something in the lines of, fine, you cut off my arm, I don't care because I still got another arm left to kill you with! kind of deal.

    In contrast, I see 8w9s as more diplomatic and less heads on. Also in a way I think, more crafty with their defense strategies because they, compared to the 8w7, does not want to create open conflict if they don't have to.

    3. Unintelligent, incapable of intellectualism, animalistic brutes

    This is simply a misconception that pretense denotes intelligence. For example, someone who says a simpleton phrase like, "I like blue" or "I like you" with no real context, is not necessarily unintelligent... they're just unaware of the context of their own words in a situation or how it makes them look. For example, when I walk into a rec center unshaven with dirt on my face wearing a russian fussy hat and a wrinkled nylon button up shirt with rolled up sleeves, and I say "Where can I find a place to sleep?" They're going to think I'm a hobo and give me 2 free passes to the rec center for showers. (true story, lol).

    I've debated the idea that I am a 7 wing because of my love for adventure, "intellectual capacity" and "head energy" as many have pointed out. However I have traits that are unmistakably 9 at my core, such as my ability to meld with dates' personalities to judge if they're worth being with or not. (this causes a lot of 2 week long relationships with no physical intimacy and an appearance of being "extremely judgemental"). My INTJ mother once tactfully reminded me, "yeah you're kinda slow" despite what people on the internet think of me, lol.
    Well, I see what you say here that 8s are in general unfavorably described as often being rather brutish and simple-minded in their approach of being. While I think it is correct to say that 8s have a simple approach towards life, it doesn't mean they aren't intelligent or not intellectual. It just means they don't like things convoluted. This also perfectly exemplifies the 5-8 connection ironically enough. You want simple truths that tell all.

    4. Being nice makes you an 8w9

    Again this is something I think both types can be, however what specifically makes a 9 wing a 9 wing, is the internal force field inside their psyche that deflects any sort of introspection. For example, to me, when I try to think about why I do something, it feels like I'm just sorta diving into a dark nebula and everything is very vague and hard to piece together and I just get lost the harder I think about it, so I often depend on others to tell me what's emotionally best for me because I legitimately don't know for myself (and then I get pissed off when people tell me what's best for me and its not). I find E9's are incredibly hard to type because they never know how to answer any of the questions you ask them about themselves. This is what makes a 9 wing, while I believe a 7 wing is marked primarily by a complete awareness of the self which makes for a completely assertive personality. In a nutshell, I know what I want, and I hate it when people try to stop me, but if you ask me what I want in life, I'll have difficulty telling you, I just know. And my life often feels like a spacial field of gravity wells, where as I drift through space, people try to suck me toward them to join their agenda, when I need to keep on track with my own (E9 melding with other people).

    One person on another website, when comparing me to someone else said, "Joe [8w7] feels like a tree, while DJ Arendee feels like a hollow tree with very thick walls." Just a point of view I felt was rather interesting.
    Well, I can see what you say about this although I have yet to encounter this as well. As I said, I think the difference between 8w7 and 8w9 is that an 8w9 is more diplomatic in their approach. This is very apparent if you compare with how I approach conflict on the forum compared to Maybe and how I even tend to mock my opponents to try better to deal damage to me. I derive a lot of senseless fun out of the conflict when I'm in that mood, that's for sure. Then it's all in the lines of "come on, what's the problem, the night's still young, is that all you've got?". With Maybe, it's more like "I see what you are doing and I do not like it but this is my position and I stick to it".

    5. Dignified appearance

    This, I've experienced first hand. On the daily basis I'm just a kid looking to make jokes etc. I'm not very serious, and no one takes me seriously either, and I used to not expect them to.

    However, when I teach, or counsel others... suddenly people start respecting me. After quieting a hysterical woman I had several people say, "I underestimated you..." However these teacher/loving/kindness/counsellor moments are few and far between. Until those happen, I'm in boredom central.
    I am not sure where you are going with this or what you are trying to say. I don't think 8s are very dignified to be honest. If anything, I find that 8s tend to have a more love it or leave it approach for most of the part. As I said, the logic of 8 is simple. They don't seek nuances in such a sense. If you don't like how they come across they really for most of the part couldn't care less because this is how and who they are. Take it or leave it. What you write in contrast does sound rather 6-like in comparison to me, especially the whole "I underestimated you". I think an 8 is going to be more open with the cards they play. They will tell you, this is my weapon and this is my goal. Are you up for the challenge? More straight-forward and far less about hiding in the dark. Hiding in the dark and backstabbing is something I see 6s do.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    TypoC loves creating double posts because I totally care about my post count. Or do I?

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  4. #4
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LSI Se
    Posts
    645

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I find that it's often CP6s who are more prone to have this attitude of looking tougher than they are by exaggerating and overreacting so they put things to the very extreme.

    I find that CP6s, especially unhealthy ones, try very hard to use direct intimidation as a technique in order to make other people scared of them so they can actually avoid dealing further with the conflict.
    I realized this once I studied enneagram more. A few people who I initially thought of as 8s, due to this tough 'tude, I analyzed them more once I understood enneagram more thoroughly, and realized they're 6's, based on their motives and M.O. It's a common misconception I think. But 8s, especially 8w9, will probably be more likely to give off a confident vibe, but not to flaunt it, perhaps because it gives you less power to wear it on your sleeve like that?

    I know that while I'm fairly quiet around strangers or large groups, I'm an open book with my friends, and don't have much to hide. I'm direct and straight forward about what I want and my intentions. But when someone knows I am angry they're afraid of me. This has been the case with much larger men, as well as other women. They will shake in fear, wondering what I'll do, and a lot of the time, my favorite revenge is "you don't exist." Of course, in order for someone not to exist, I have to be sure that any way they could possibly fuck with me is removed; so I might pull a few strings or scare the shit out of them before I completely shut them out. If someone gives me an excuse for a more fun revenge, I'll win and they'll wish they never met me. But for the most part I'd rather just go on with my life.


    I think in fiction, the berserker kind of archetype tends to very often be an 8w7. It's going to be something in the lines of, fine, you cut off my arm, I don't care because I still got another arm left to kill you with! kind of deal.
    ^ Lol.

    In contrast, I see 8w9s as more diplomatic and less heads on. Also in a way I think, more crafty with their defense strategies because they, compared to the 8w7, does not want to create open conflict if they don't have to.
    Yes, I'm still debating my wings but it is for reasons like this that I think I'm 8w9. Although, I get a thrill out of debates and conflict over internet forums about politics and other topics that make people get their panties in a bunch.

    Well, I see what you say here that 8s are in general unfavorably described as often being rather brutish and simple-minded in their approach of being. While I think it is correct to say that 8s have a simple approach towards life, it doesn't mean they aren't intelligent or not intellectual. It just means they don't like things convoluted. This also perfectly exemplifies the 5-8 connection ironically enough. You want simple truths that tell all.
    I would consider myself very simple. It strikes me very often that everyone else is so complicated and I'm simple. But definitely, that's different from stupid. I know there are people smarter than I, but I have always gotten top grades with little effort, and I can think my way out of any conundrum. Although I'm a very carnal person, and carnally driven, I'm more confident in my mind than my body, being that I'm 5'4 and have a chronic illness. And I do consider my mind to be among my most powerful weapons.


    I derive a lot of senseless fun out of the conflict when I'm in that mood, that's for sure. Then it's all in the lines of "come on, what's the problem, the night's still young, is that all you've got?". With Maybe, it's more like "I see what you are doing and I do not like it but this is my position and I stick to it".
    Lol, that is a good assessment, and exactly right. I am pretty stubborn =p

    I don't think 8s are very dignified to be honest.
    Dignity has never been a major concern for me - it's more about getting what I want. But, there is that line to 2 which gives some pride in who you are and feeling like you are justified to act the way you do.

    Someone once said to me that he'd rather die with his dignity in tact than lose his pride; and I DO NOT relate to this. There is almost nothing I wouldn't do to evade death.

    But I do think things through so that I don't end up hurting people needlessly. When I fuck up, I apologize. It also occurs to me that not that many things can actually hurt my confidence. When someone tells me "you were wrong," and I see that they have a good point, my reaction is usually to sort through it mentally, figure out where I went wrong, come up with a better approach for next time, and apologize; and when I do apologize *I MEAN IT.* But my approach is very pragmatic, and I've been accused of being cold for this reason. All I can say is, "Would you really rather that I sit here feeling like shit, instead of solving the problem? What's the point?" So it never turns into a matter of losing my dignity or something, because if anything, I take pride in my pragmatism and forward-thinking approach, and my refusal to wallow in regrets. There is a lesson to be learned and strength to be earned with every regret. I don't need to take pride in always having done the right thing.

    If anything, I find that 8s tend to have a more love it or leave it approach for most of the part. As I said, the logic of 8 is simple. They don't seek nuances in such a sense.
    Yeah I hate things that are complicated. =/ Not enough patience

    I think an 8 is going to be more open with the cards they play. They will tell you, this is my weapon and this is my goal. Are you up for the challenge? More straight-forward and far less about hiding in the dark. Hiding in the dark and backstabbing is something I see 6s do.
    I know a lot more about people than I let on, but, I'm also usually willing to share it; it's just that I know most people don't want to hear all my observations, and if they did, I'd be causing unnecessary drama. =p But I'll happily share my observations to help them, or to protect myself.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    I realized this once I studied enneagram more. A few people who I initially thought of as 8s, due to this tough 'tude, I analyzed them more once I understood enneagram more thoroughly, and realized they're 6's, based on their motives and M.O. It's a common misconception I think. But 8s, especially 8w9, will probably be more likely to give off a confident vibe, but not to flaunt it, perhaps because it gives you less power to wear it on your sleeve like that?
    I think you're right that 8w9 doesn't wear it as much on their sleeves.

    I know that while I'm fairly quiet around strangers or large groups, I'm an open book with my friends, and don't have much to hide. I'm direct and straight forward about what I want and my intentions. But when someone knows I am angry they're afraid of me. This has been the case with much larger men, as well as other women. They will shake in fear, wondering what I'll do, and a lot of the time, my favorite revenge is "you don't exist." Of course, in order for someone not to exist, I have to be sure that any way they could possibly fuck with me is removed; so I might pull a few strings or scare the shit out of them before I completely shut them out. If someone gives me an excuse for a more fun revenge, I'll win and they'll wish they never met me. But for the most part I'd rather just go on with my life.
    "You don't exist", that's a good one! I think I pull that one too on people when I cut all connections. I pretend like they don't exist anymore.

    Yes, I'm still debating my wings but it is for reasons like this that I think I'm 8w9. Although, I get a thrill out of debates and conflict over internet forums about politics and other topics that make people get their panties in a bunch.
    Yeah well an 8 is still an 8 regardless of wings :p

    I would consider myself very simple. It strikes me very often that everyone else is so complicated and I'm simple. But definitely, that's different from stupid. I know there are people smarter than I, but I have always gotten top grades with little effort, and I can think my way out of any conundrum. Although I'm a very carnal person, and carnally driven, I'm more confident in my mind than my body, being that I'm 5'4 and have a chronic illness. And I do consider my mind to be among my most powerful weapons.
    Yes, I know what you mean. I notice this too sometimes, it can be a little frustrating for me as a head type since to me nothing is simple haha. There's always a logical explanation to be found if we look hard enough but as you say, 8s are impatient. They have no time for such things. They are concerned about what is here and now. But I think that's why 5-8 is an interesting relationship because the 5 helps the 8 to "think" and the 8 helps the 5 to "act".

    Lol, that is a good assessment, and exactly right. I am pretty stubborn =p
    So am I, but the way we express it is definitely different.
    Dignity has never been a major concern for me - it's more about getting what I want. But, there is that line to 2 which gives some pride in who you are and feeling like you are justified to act the way you do.

    Someone once said to me that he'd rather die with his dignity in tact than lose his pride; and I DO NOT relate to this. There is almost nothing I wouldn't do to evade death.

    But I do think things through so that I don't end up hurting people needlessly. When I fuck up, I apologize. It also occurs to me that not that many things can actually hurt my confidence. When someone tells me "you were wrong," and I see that they have a good point, my reaction is usually to sort through it mentally, figure out where I went wrong, come up with a better approach for next time, and apologize; and when I do apologize *I MEAN IT.* But my approach is very pragmatic, and I've been accused of being cold for this reason. All I can say is, "Would you really rather that I sit here feeling like shit, instead of solving the problem? What's the point?" So it never turns into a matter of losing my dignity or something, because if anything, I take pride in my pragmatism and forward-thinking approach, and my refusal to wallow in regrets. There is a lesson to be learned and strength to be earned with every regret. I don't need to take pride in always having done the right thing.
    It's a good point. I was considering how the influence of 2 would play a role here but to be honest, even though 2 is a superego type and would thus be more concerned with concepts such as dignity I fail to see how even a strong 2 influence in an 8 would instill a sense of dignity necessarily Like, I can't relate to the whole "I rather die than lose my pride" either. I'd rather die than lose my mind though.

    I know a lot more about people than I let on, but, I'm also usually willing to share it; it's just that I know most people don't want to hear all my observations, and if they did, I'd be causing unnecessary drama. =p But I'll happily share my observations to help them, or to protect myself.
    I agree, but the difference is that you lack an agenda. You simply see no reason why to disclose that information if they don't ask or seek it out. A 6 would in contrast twist and turn if they see it fitting them at that very moment and might even hold back if someone asks. You don't hold back but even if you would, you will clearly tell the reason why. Again, simple wants, simple needs, simple thinking and motivations.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  6. #6
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    2,319

    Default

    Hmm, @LeaT

    wow, both of your views are completely different from what most people have said to me.

    as far as verbally stating how tough you are, yes I'll agree that 6's do this a lot.

    Naranjo talks about how the 8 will, when insecure, openly brag about how much better they are than someone else, and then actually do it and prove it. Its sadistic but still stems from a feeling of insecurity.

    From other sources like palmer, I've heard it said that 8's unconsciously put on a facade of strength. Any opinion on that?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Hmm, @LeaT

    wow, both of your views are completely different from what most people have said to me.

    as far as verbally stating how tough you are, yes I'll agree that 6's do this a lot.

    Naranjo talks about how the 8 will, when insecure, openly brag about how much better they are than someone else, and then actually do it and prove it. Its sadistic but still stems from a feeling of insecurity.

    From other sources like palmer, I've heard it said that 8's unconsciously put on a facade of strength. Any opinion on that?
    Well, I filter a lot of information before I decide what's reliable or not I think the point you make about 8s also proving their capabilities is an important distinction between an 8 and a 6. A 6 when challenged to just do it would at some point waver and try to pull out since they know that they inherently bark louder than they bite. An 8 is always aware of their limits and boundaries in such a sense. I guess another good example of the 5-8 connection. I see what you mean about the sadism though, to prove that you're better to best or belittle someone else. I'm guilty of this and it's one of the reasons why I considered 8 over 1 for gut and just like an 8, I won't bark unless I know I'm capable. Otherwise I just look stupid and why should I care about barking about something I know doesn't concern me anyway? Which is the case with 6s who often bark for the sake of barking. 8s bark when it actually concerns them and they only bark when they know they can deal with it.

    As for your question, I think Palmer is right that 8s want to feel tough. Check my signature lol, it's a good example of 5-8 too. However, with 8s, it's to cover up their sense of loss of innocence. It's kind of like, "I'm rather angry than sad because anger can accomplish something sadness does not. Anger leads to action, anger provides a sense of strength and force. It's almost like I need/must be tough because the world is cruel and if I'm not tough it's going to crush me under its heel. If I am to survive, I need to be as tough as they are" kind of think. In retrospect, I wonder if many mafia stories underpins this particular 8 theme to an extreme degree.

    I'm guilty of this mindset as well but perhaps not as habitual as it is for actul core 8s. I just got a fix + connection. If you've seen Kill Bill, I think it's a good example of an 8 kind of movie and motifs. I think what differentiates the above again compared to 6 is that the 6 has this need to prove that things are not right. It's the "truth teller" attitude kicking in. A 6 will say, the emperor has no clothes but instead of doing the job himself he'll have others do the job for him. An analogy I am uncertain if you're familiar with is the character Vergil from the DmC: Devil May Cry game who strikes me as a very good example of a 6. His motives are to overthrow the system, something both an 8 and a 6 can relate to although perhaps for different reasons. I think a good example actually is to compare Dante and Vergil as Dante is most definitely an 8, he wants things simple. Vergil in contrast, is more of the mastermind and planner kind of person. He set up the Order as an organization and he's the one running it. While an 8 could find himself stuck in such a leadership role I think ultimately though, he desires to be left alone to his own devices and I really fail to see how an 8 would organize a structure like that. Vergil wants to show people the truth that the world is controlled by demons, that's his mission. Dante in contrast is more simple-minded. He just wants to defend the innocent from the demons and kill them so people are free. Id desires compared to superego desires.

    It's also interesting how Vergil for most of the part does not want to do things himself although he's a capable swordsman and fighter. Instead, he relies on Dante doing the job for him showing the differences between head and gut cores where head types are indeed thinkers and the most out of touch with their body. If they don't have to, they rather have other people deal with the physical world so they can spend more time doing actual thinking. Gut types are in contrast action-oriented being the most in touch with their bodies being gut types, although of course it differs here. A 9 spends a lot of time maintaining peace and a 1 is more about lack of action due to repression. Anyway, Dante being an 8 doesn't mind doing Vergil's dirtywork. It's simple enough for him. Kill the enemies, follow the plan. Sounds good enough. He doesn't need to understand the greater motives as long as it benefits him too.

    Also, towards the end, it turns out that Vergil has been twisting truths all along. He didn't want to kill Mundus so humans could be free as he thinks humans still need some external order and structure to guide them away from the bad. Such superego kind of think. Dante, who's been integrating beautifully towards 2 during the game, doesn't agree as he can finally see the instrinsic value of humanity after getting to know Kat in particular.

    So uhm, I hope I answered your question somewhat. Also, I think a CP 6w7 + 8w7 fixed person will have extreme issues differentiating between 8 and 6 core as the motives and behavior will overlap so much for them. Dante is for example clearly CP 6w7 fixed for head in the latest game. He has a lot of the "needless" barking I associate more with CP6 going on that unhealthy 8s also can fall prey to to a degree. It's only the fact that he ultimately doesn't give a shit at the beginning of the game about the state of the world and where it's going and is clearly more interested in indulging in his own pleasures (lust, we see him picking up two women at a dance bar in one of the introduction cut scenes and it's heavily implied that he's been drinking to the point he was very drunk and had sex with them, perhaps even took drugs) in this very moment that I think is common for unhealthy 8s as well. 8 cynicism is just different to 6 cynicism because 6 is still superego driven. They need a purpose, a reason, a mission. 8s being id driven just don't give two shits when things go awry. They only and ultimately care about themselves. A 6 is in such a way a bit more honorable I guess as I can see a 6 being more willing to sacrifice themselves for someone else than an 8 would unless the 8 is integrated.

    Ah, I know more examples from fiction but meh, it's hard to discuss since I don't know if you're familiar with the media at all.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  8. #8
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    2,319

    Default

    @LeaT

    I think all 5's are that way. I'd be willing to argue that clint eastwood is a 5. 5's can scare me at times, and some of the 5's I've met can become complete douche bags and impossible to argue with when they know they're right... usually they've thought about it... A LOT.

    I don't think 5's necessarily need an 8 in their trifix to act 8'ish because that's what they integrate to anyway. I don't particularly believe in my trifix anyway.

    I think the difference between 5 and 8 is that 5's take longer to build the confidence, while 8's might actually have premature confidence.

    By the way if you're still looking for your type, I'm very certain you're a Ti user. Otherwise this wouldn't be a discussion, it would be you telling me what's objectively correct and what isn't objectively correct.

  9. #9
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LSI Se
    Posts
    645

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Hmm, @LeaT

    Naranjo talks about how the 8 will, when insecure, openly brag about how much better they are than someone else, and then actually do it and prove it. Its sadistic but still stems from a feeling of insecurity.
    I do stuff like this when my confidence is low. It's not incongruent with anything we've typed, is it?

    Showing that you're better than others can be done in a variety of ways. It doesn't have to be done by showing that you're tough and thrusting all your power in someone's face. This might especially be a bad strategy for female 8s, because socially, women will LOSE power by behaving this way. Women, in this society, will gain power by having strength inwardly, but not by walking around and punching people and flexing their muscles. That being said, I love to show off my muscles and how fast I build them at the gym, and I'm especially likely to do this stuff when I'm around catty girls who annoy me, or something like that. I don't see how that's incongruent with the above, though. Any way to achieve dominance would be congruent with 8, and achieving dominance through blatant displays of strength and power would only work if you're male, really big and strong, and competing for that specific thing. It is possible that an 8 works as a physicist, for instance, and does better to show off her powerful mind rather than her physical strength. Also, people don't become corporate CEO's by walking around intimidating everyone openly. They work their way up the ladder, and strategically collect power. Both 3's and 8's would do this, and it is a 3 stereotype, but if you think about it, 8s don't necessarily walk into the company with power and leadership. They earn it, one way or another, and that's why people associate type 8 with business leaders. This involves strategy, and necessitates SOME social skill, which is not necessarily congruent with flexing and bragging and being impulsive all the time. WHile these might be compulsive behaviors for an 8, any 8 with a brain would figure out at a young age that some strategies work to get power and some don't.

    From other sources like palmer, I've heard it said that 8's unconsciously put on a facade of strength. Any opinion on that?
    This is probably true. Though again, it depends on your definition of strength. Would you say that a 'strong woman' means someone who walks around beating people up, or looking like she's about to beat people up?

    I certainly don't act that way - I'm more quiet and open - but nobody who has ever seen me would ever call me weak or docile. I hardly ever get in fights , and I'm small and chronically ill and even speak in a whisper, but people are afraid to mess with me, for one reason or another. I'd imagine it's exactly because of that quiet facade you mention. That is more congruent with 8 (especially female 8) imo.

  10. #10
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LSI Se
    Posts
    645

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    @LeaT

    I think the difference between 5 and 8 is that 5's take longer to build the confidence, while 8's might actually have premature confidence.
    Haha, this is probably true. Although again, that line to 5, and also my 5 fix, would lead me to think about what my shortcomings might be before jumping into things. I actually spend time fishing out my weaknesses, habitually, to try to maximize my achievements and cut out any possible pitfalls.

    What is your tritype by the way?

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-01-2011, 10:46 AM
  2. Misconceptions of Yourself
    By Amethyst in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 04-04-2011, 10:05 PM
  3. The Constant Misconception of Wings
    By Bubbles in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 12-07-2009, 05:12 AM
  4. The greatest misconception of MBTI: Cynicism
    By SuperFob in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 10-07-2009, 04:03 PM
  5. Misconceptions About Aspects of My Personality
    By Sunshine in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-31-2008, 03:04 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO