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  1. #1
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Default Type 4 and Competency

    Type 4 is between two competency types: 3 and 5. Regardless of the wing, a type 4 will have influence from both sides. Type 4 also has a direct line to 1, the third competency type.

    Type 3 influence might bring a 4 a desire to be identified by their work, while type 5 influence might bring a 4 a very strong thirst for knowledge and understanding as part of their identity. Also, 4's have a direct integration line to 1, which might bring a desire for truth and correctness.

    So I am wondering:

    How concerned are you with competency?
    Does it give you a sense of identity or purpose to be good at something?
    Do you want others to know what you're good at, or do you do it just for yourself?
    Would an accomplishment feel less authentic or genuine if you showed it off?
    Is perfection and correctness important to you? Is this part of your definition of authenticity?

    Do you edit your posts?

  2. #2
    Member EndlessNameless's Avatar
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    This sounds interesting! :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    How concerned are you with competency?
    Always full of doubts, wondering, want to know more, but it's extremly important to me.
    Does it give you a sense of identity or purpose to be good at something?
    I sure need to be good at something, but really...how doesn't enjoy it and want it? Everyone needs to be good at something. But it sure gives me my sense of identity, I love music and art and I'd say I can be good at it and it gives some feeling of originality, image.
    Do you want others to know what you're good at, or do you do it just for yourself?
    Sure I want others to know what I am good at!
    Would an accomplishment feel less authentic or genuine if you showed it off?
    I don't understand the point of this... why should it be less authentic than? Yes 4s are individualistic, authentic and shy, but this type need external reactions, I'd say most of 4s are introverts who strives for attention, but most of them are too shy to show off, but all things 4s do, they do it to create an image and than get back external reaction...They need it.
    Is perfection and correctness important to you? Is this part of your definition of authenticity?
    eh...who gives a f*ck?
    Do you edit your posts?
    Yeah I do, but just because my attention is so unstable and I write so fast without thinking and than I read it back and see hundreds of grammar mistakes.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    Type 3 influence might bring a 4 a desire to be identified by their work, while type 5 influence might bring a 4 a very strong thirst for knowledge and understanding as part of their identity. Also, 4's have a direct integration line to 1, which might bring a desire for truth and correctness.
    I've thought about this before, but haven't gone anywhere with it. I type as 4w3. I see 3 influence in that, if I'm honest, I desire to appear attractive, capable, etc etc. Keyword here is appear. So I guess competence here would be to fulfill an ideal image of sorts. I can see 5 influence too! I'm someone who lacks quite a bit in real world experience. Inhibition (i.e. self-consciousness, shame, etc.) causes me to keep a distance and bury myself in information to prepare for the world. I'm someone who googles up the most trivial of things because I don't know how to act, appear, behave, do, in so-and-so situation, situations in which others waltz through no problem.

    I know I didn't answer your questions directly.

  4. #4
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post

    I know I didn't answer your questions directly.
    Oh that's okay. I would not expect a 4 to do it any other way, other than his own way.

  5. #5
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    How concerned are you with competency?
    It's not at the forefront of my mind but it matters. In reality it's more of a concern about not messing things up, rather than a need to look good - in other words it's about avoiding the appearance of incompetence, than needing to appear competent. But then I'm Social-first 4, so I'm going to be more worried about looking stupid anyway.

    Also, sometimes it's just of matter of recognising that I'm bad at something and working hard to compensate for that.

    Does it give you a sense of identity or purpose to be good at something?
    Sort of. It helps me to be good at something but mostly I'm good at things that have no marketable value; they're not going to get me jobs, make people like me or improve my life significantly. So in that sense I always feel incompetent.

    Do you want others to know what you're good at, or do you do it just for yourself?
    I would like people to value what I'm good at, yes. I realise I need more praise than many people in order to believe I'm good at something. Mostly though, I don't push for that because it's kinda pathetic to seek it out. I don't, however, do things in order to simply impress people; I do it for myself primarily. I'm not that desperate for approval and I'm too stubborn to change in order to please others. I'm just going to do my own thing and if others appreciate it, that's great.

    Would an accomplishment feel less authentic or genuine if you showed it off?
    Yes. I'm very uncomfortable about showing it off. I would worry that I would make others feel less than me or that my accomplishment really isn't that significant/worth/deserving in the scheme of things. I also don't want to be that sad, attention-seeking person.

    This could partly be cultural, though, because I come from a very egalitarian society where it's important to appear ordinary and never show off.

    Is perfection and correctness important to you? Is this part of your definition of authenticity?
    I am a perfectionist but it's not entirely about authenticity. It's about authenticity in that I want certain things I do/make/create to be exactly what I imagine it should; for it to be true to my ability and to my vision. Even if no one will notice or care, I have to get it right because I know that I would be half-assing it if I didn't - and that's not good enough. However, sometimes it's just a matter of not looking stupid. In that case, it's all about doing the minimal amount to get by.

    It really depends on what I'm doing or working on, and whether it's something that is meaningful to me or not.

    Do you edit your posts?
    Do I edit my posts?

    Understatement of the century! I proof read and edit each post multiple times (sometimes dozens of times). I worry about explaining myself well and about grammar, punctuation or spelling mistakes. Sometimes I even get a little obsessive and edit it way too much.

    And yes, I did edit this post too.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  6. #6
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Not a 4 but I may have it in my trifix.

    How concerned are you with competency?
    Very

    Does it give you a sense of identity or purpose to be good at something?
    Absolutely. What's the point of existing if you're not competent enough at anything to make a valuable contribution?

    Do you want others to know what you're good at, or do you do it just for yourself?
    I want others to know what I'm good at but I'm also shy about self-promoting myself. As a result, people don't always know what I'm capable of.

    Would an accomplishment feel less authentic or genuine if you showed it off?
    No

    Is perfection and correctness important to you? Is this part of your definition of authenticity?
    Moderately important but it really depends on the context how important it is. I'm perfectionist about some things and not perfectionist about others. I've never really thought about how it relates to authenticity. If its regarding ethical things, then I suppose it is. If its regarding something more impersonal like how things are organized than no.

    Do you edit your posts?
    Sometimes. If it affects how someone will interpret it or if I find out I unintentionally made an error of fact or said the opposite of what I intended, I will quickly fix it. If its just a little typo, probably not.
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  7. #7
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post

    How concerned are you with competency?
    Concerned enough to be irritated at my lack of it. Which then again frustrates me to no end as it isnt something I want to actively think about,as there are more important things to concern myself with consciously. Still, it can worry me to the point of paralysing me in fear. If someone knows how to turn this damned thing off in my brain, plz lemme know.

    Does it give you a sense of identity or purpose to be good at something?
    I guess so. More that it removes a head ache. It's...kind of expected to be competent. More than that. If I put my time and effort into something, I want it to become special, I want it to be quality, and I want it to be worthy of other peoples attention first before putting it out in the world. In a way, Im my own worst critic, as it means that I feel a lot of shame for substandard stuff. In another way, it also means I can be extremely lazy as I refuse to get off my ass to do just *anything*. It needs to be worth my time.

    As @Southern Kross said, however, my skills arent exactly economically viable or marketable so they have their own intrinsic value to me in that way. And that too is sometimes a source of frustration to me, as I was raised to take care of myself and succeed by my parents. Tbh, I'm still fighting them as well as myself in sorting out *what* I should give priority to.

    Do you want others to know what you're good at, or do you do it just for yours
    Recognition is part of it, I suppose. It depends, really. If it is something I do to please others, then yes, I'd like others to at least notice it, as the pleasure I derive from doing this comes from them. But that is also because the effect Im seeking to achieve is to see them enjoy what I did. Otherwise, I failed, really. Other things are intrinsically motivated, though a lot of what I do is geared towards helping,entertaining or cheering up others.

    Would an accomplishment feel less authentic or genuine if you showed it off?
    In a way, yes. If it isn't obviously affecting others,then I failed, so bragging is not exactly the way to go. Drawing attention one time to it with a hint is as far as I'm usually comfortable going with it. I sometimes will point out what Ive tried to do (which I guess can read as bragging) when I feel I've failed in order to gather information as to why I failed, so I can improve next time.

    If the result was meant to be subtle, I'm quite content to just have it be oblivious while it still serves its intended purpose. As for bragging, I might list it amidst my successes if the topic comes up in other conversations later on.

    Either one of these cases won't stop me from feeling like a fraud however if something I've done or created does NOT live up to my own internal standard yet others seem to oohh and ahh over it, either just to soothe my ego, or in a way, worse, coz they genuinly don't see the flaws (yet).

    Is perfection and correctness important to you?
    Correctness as in politeness, no. However, I do hold a certain image of what Im trying to achieve in my head that feels 'true'. And, unfortunately, reality has taught me that it is rarely possible to achieve said image in the real world. So that can be utterly frustrating. I'm still in the process of learning to not cling so hard to what I've envisioned and to allow for a bit of creative processing to happen in reality to reshape it and redefine the end result with the means available in the real world, to achieve a new sort of perfection. It still requires me to grieve the loss of the original vision atm though. And it can sap me of my will to proceed, for fear of destroying the ideal forever in my mind.

    Is this part of your definition of authenticity?
    I'd say so, yes

    Do you edit your posts?
    Yes. My first post tends to be a draft. A rambling of my thoughts. This is especially true in more complex posts, where I'm consolidating a ton of data from both the thread itself and what I want to say. To merge those two together can be tricky. Often, when I reread my post, I'll have additional epiphanies, or things will click and seem clearer, so i'll go over my post to polish it. Additionally, Ti-users on here can be really nitpicky and take your post apart and lose...focus as to what you were trying to converse in the pursuit of their truth, so I've learned to at least *try* and cover my ass on what trips up their Ti

    ...especially when it comes to a post that is rather complex, in a thread that I find fascinating and want to see continue in order to learn from it.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Additionally, Ti-users on here can be really nitpicky and take your post apart and lose...focus as to what you were trying to converse in the pursuit of their truth, so I've learned to at least *try* and cover my ass on what trips up their Ti
    Don't worry, I do that as a 5 too Nitpick on someone else's post, that is.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  9. #9
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    How concerned are you with competency?
    You need it to survive. I am concerned with it because I want to live well, have opportunities, and be noticed positively.

    Does it give you a sense of identity or purpose to be good at something?
    Yes, and the reverse: I'm probably not going to commit enough to get good at something if I'm not drawn into it by a sense of purpose or a wish to identify with it.

    Do you want others to know what you're good at, or do you do it just for yourself?
    Your competence has to be at least a little visible to get the survival benefits out of it in this social world we live in. Yeah, I do want others to know. Also, validation helps confirm that what I thought was competence really is. One can be mistaken, and honestly, getting very identified with your activities as I do can cloud the judgment of one's own work.

    Would an accomplishment feel less authentic or genuine if you showed it off?
    Only if I showed it off more than the accomplishment was worth.

    Is perfection and correctness important to you? Is this part of your definition of authenticity?
    Yes. If I am doing something, I care about it and identify with it to some degree, so of course it feels inauthentic not to do well at the things that I consider a part of me. My identification would be unreal if it didn't have the substance of real life performance to fill it in.

    Do you edit your posts?
    Mainly for typos or language clarity. I won't take back the message of a post, though, and it is awkward when someone else decides to do this. Especially when someone responds to you, but by the time you get there, they've blanked it all out and replaced it with "never mind". aaaaaaaaa.

  10. #10
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Most 4s are pretty competency focused internally due to the fact that they integrate to 1. Also their wings are both competency types as you have pointed out. Interesting indeed.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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