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  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I don't really think in terms of "competency" unless it comes to life in general. I feel kind lacking in whatever is needed to live a full, satisfying existence. I have trouble pinpointing what it is (because it's probably nothing), and so I just sort of carry a sense of deficiency around. I have this the most in the social realm because I tend to feel awkward, unlikeable, & burdensome even.

    A part of me feels like I have potential, mainly because that was hammered into my head while growing up, but I don't feel like I have the energy or motivation to pursue it. Daily life just takes so much energy & I require so much down time to just think/meditate that I sort feel stunted at that. Most of my goals are attached to being autonomous, being able to do what I want without expectations, obligations or overseeing eyes.

    One of my earliest memories was my sister bragging to a friend that I drew better than her friend's brother, who was older. I was probably about 3 at the time. In school, I got academic & artistic awards & labels like "gifted" as well as special treatment (lots of absences/tardiness overlooked, didn't have to take some tests or was given alternate assignments like "create your own project"). This very likely formed my identity/persona, as well as indulging bad tendencies of mine (poor with structure or discipline to do mundane tasks, feeling separated/different from others). My sense of competency was being the "smart, arty girl", and my incompetency was in the practical & social realms of life. But even as I got older, I questioned my own supposed smarts or talents, because I increasingly did less with them, but without that identity I'd get a nagging sense of "nothing". I feel incompetent to be who I'd like to be, I guess, and/or I feel like the world is not "made" for someone like me, like whatever I "have" is not valued by it.

    (As a side: I mentioned at PerC a feeling of having "the wrong currency", like money from another country that's not recognized. Just as when you exchange money, you often have a fee & are left with less, I'll feel like converting who I am to something deemed "valuable" would mean losing myself in a way. I have a knee-jerk reaction to that; I'd rather just sit on my useless money. I think this is related to competency...?)

    I didn't have achievement in mind at all as a kid; I was actually quite a slacker in many ways. I remember finishing assigned books ahead of time because I just found them interesting, however nerdy that may be. I spent most of my time when home doing little art projects I came up with, just because an idea would strike me. I wouldn't usually show these to people, but I wasn't extremely secretive either. I don't remember feeling inauthentic or less genuine to receive recognition either... I remember being kind of blase about accepting awards, but also feeling resentment & contempt if someone I saw as less intelligent or talented was acknowledged as equal or better even. So I did have a drive to not be outdone by the overachievers, when I felt I did better with a flick of my wrist (I was quite arrogant in some respects).

    As an adult, I don't share much of anything with people because I feel embarrassed, like it's never good enough. I think it could make me feel inauthentic in the sense that it falls short of this ideal I have, and I worry I've projected the ideal & people will expect a lot. I hardly speak of anything I "do" because I don't want to give the wrong impression. I tend to downplay myself in person & find doing the opposite hard (which is why things like job interviews are hard). I admit I hardly can judge myself objectively.... If I compare what I do with anything, then it's always something extraordinary that I don't think I'm smart or talented or even just motivated enough to live up to.

    There is definitely a concern for perfection & correctness. I am embarrassed by mistakes & of any shortcomings in what I create. Having other people point it out is terrible, because it confirms the shame I have over "never being good enough". As a kid, I was indignant at being scolded or criticized, because I'd feel like no one was seeing any of my good & like I almost had higher standards than they were even aware existed. I felt "misunderstood". As an adult, I'm less arrogant & also less sensitive. I'm more likely to just downplay so people are pleasantly surprised or so I don't have to expend as much energy.

    I do edit my posts if I catch a typo or some other error, but as I write them I also edit/organize (mainly cuz I don't write in order).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #12
    Riva
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    Interesting thread and I like the explanation given in the op. The way I imagine e4s is, as overanalytical, depressed people who can even make Gengish Khan cry by simply telling how they feel each morning. The op however changed my perspective about them especially as it opened my eyes as to how competent some/most of them are to whatever they are passionate about. Therefore I'm really interested in following the replies.

  3. #13
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    That's cool, Riva!

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't really think in terms of "competency" unless it comes to life in general.
    This is a very good point to bring up, and I know what you mean. While I responded that I care about competency in that one needs it to get by, that's as deep as it gets. Thinking about competency was a learned behavior, painfully learned. I was downplaying something and not opening up fully in parts of my own post, which says something about how I react to this subject. One of the greatest reasons why I am even here investigating my personality is to break the habit of talking and acting like a person with different "currency".

    Thanks for the relatable post and for saying so much.

  4. #14
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't really think in terms of "competency" unless it comes to life in general. I feel kind lacking in whatever is needed to live a full, satisfying existence. I have trouble pinpointing what it is (because it's probably nothing), and so I just sort of carry a sense of deficiency around. I have this the most in the social realm because I tend to feel awkward, unlikeable, & burdensome even.

    A part of me feels like I have potential, mainly because that was hammered into my head while growing up, but I don't feel like I have the energy or motivation to pursue it. Daily life just takes so much energy & I require so much down time to just think/meditate that I sort feel stunted at that. Most of my goals are attached to being autonomous, being able to do what I want without expectations, obligations or overseeing eyes.

    One of my earliest memories was my sister bragging to a friend that I drew better than her friend's brother, who was older. I was probably about 3 at the time. In school, I got academic & artistic awards & labels like "gifted" as well as special treatment (lots of absences/tardiness overlooked, didn't have to take some tests or was given alternate assignments like "create your own project"). This very likely formed my identity/persona, as well as indulging bad tendencies of mine (poor with structure or discipline to do mundane tasks, feeling separated/different from others). My sense of competency was being the "smart, arty girl", and my incompetency was in the practical & social realms of life. But even as I got older, I questioned my own supposed smarts or talents, because I increasingly did less with them, but without that identity I'd get a nagging sense of "nothing". I feel incompetent to be who I'd like to be, I guess, and/or I feel like the world is not "made" for someone like me, like whatever I "have" is not valued by it.

    (As a side: I mentioned at PerC a feeling of having "the wrong currency", like money from another country that's not recognized. Just as when you exchange money, you often have a fee & are left with less, I'll feel like converting who I am to something deemed "valuable" would mean losing myself in a way. I have a knee-jerk reaction to that; I'd rather just sit on my useless money. I think this is related to competency...?)

    I didn't have achievement in mind at all as a kid; I was actually quite a slacker in many ways. I remember finishing assigned books ahead of time because I just found them interesting, however nerdy that may be. I spent most of my time when home doing little art projects I came up with, just because an idea would strike me. I wouldn't usually show these to people, but I wasn't extremely secretive either. I don't remember feeling inauthentic or less genuine to receive recognition either... I remember being kind of blase about accepting awards, but also feeling resentment & contempt if someone I saw as less intelligent or talented was acknowledged as equal or better even. So I did have a drive to not be outdone by the overachievers, when I felt I did better with a flick of my wrist (I was quite arrogant in some respects).


    As an adult, I don't share much of anything with people because I feel embarrassed, like it's never good enough. I think it could make me feel inauthentic in the sense that it falls short of this ideal I have, and I worry I've projected the ideal & people will expect a lot. I hardly speak of anything I "do" because I don't want to give the wrong impression. I tend to downplay myself in person & find doing the opposite hard (which is why things like job interviews are hard). I admit I hardly can judge myself objectively.... If I compare what I do with anything, then it's always something extraordinary that I don't think I'm smart or talented or even just motivated enough to live up to.

    There is definitely a concern for perfection & correctness. I am embarrassed by mistakes & of any shortcomings in what I create. Having other people point it out is terrible, because it confirms the shame I have over "never being good enough". As a kid, I was indignant at being scolded or criticized, because I'd feel like no one was seeing any of my good & like I almost had higher standards than they were even aware existed. I felt "misunderstood". As an adult, I'm less arrogant & also less sensitive. I'm more likely to just downplay so people are pleasantly surprised or so I don't have to expend as much energy.

    I do edit my posts if I catch a typo or some other error, but as I write them I also edit/organize (mainly cuz I don't write in order).
    I could have written this. I found it hard not to bold just about everything

    Just change some of the personal anecdotes about art to language in general (verbal skills especially) and music (singing and playing the flute). According to my mom, my father accidentally ensured that my peers in school basically could not understand me by teaching me words and phrases a child my age would never use, causing a rift between me and the other kids I never managed to close since. He meant well, he was quite the purist about our maternal tongue and I took to it well apparently at a young age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    That's cool, Riva!


    This is a very good point to bring up, and I know what you mean. While I responded that I care about competency in that one needs it to get by, that's as deep as it gets. Thinking about competency was a learned behavior, painfully learned. I was downplaying something and not opening up fully in parts of my own post, which says something about how I react to this subject. One of the greatest reasons why I am even here investigating my personality is to break the habit of talking and acting like a person with different "currency".

    Thanks for the relatable post and for saying so much.
    It is a learned behavior and it is exhausting to have to value it when you really do not want to take it into consideration. It is unfortunately part of reality, however.


    ...I just came from the Type 8 thread, and somehow the juxtaposition between the descriptions in here about lack of drive and motivation and the over-the-top drive and motivation to the point of not knowing what to do with it just seems hilarious atm
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  5. #15
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    And another thing about 4 competency:


    Does anyone else feel like they aren't entitled to focus on their passions coz they are non-stop trying to figure out, apologise and better themselves in all the things they are *not* good at in order to navigate the world and not disappoint/burden others? I find myself constantly distracted going..well I should really be doing this instead, or fixing this, or dealing with this problem, instead of sitting here playing word games and thinking up fantasy stories...which in turn does not exactly inspire writing something awesome in the first place

    I'm still struggling with picking between what I feel I should be entitled to do (pursue my passions) and what others have called 'facing reality and getting on with it' and somehow I can't..I cant find energy to do both. And I feel ridiculously incompetent in the stuff that people seem to feel I *should* take care of... Oddly, people prefer when I do the first, but bitch when I don't do the second.

    Can someone tell me if there is a way out of this catch-22?
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  6. #16
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    I am concerned about competency when it involves something I am passionate about. For example: I wanted to show a side of suffering that I believed other people did not see. And I focused my writing on bringing that out. I also knew that suffering so it had a lot of meaning for me. And I was able to bring a different perspective to something that was typically stereotyped. I expressed that through a poem.

    I had the poem published on a site and a year later a woman contacted me and asked if her organization could use that poem in a play. And I consented to that. Two years after that she contacted me again and asked if I would come and watch the play and speak after it was over. And I declined. I just could not do that.

  7. #17
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    And another thing about 4 competency:


    Does anyone else feel like they aren't entitled to focus on their passions coz they are non-stop trying to figure out, apologise and better themselves in all the things they are *not* good at in order to navigate the world and not disappoint/burden others? I find myself constantly distracted going..well I should really be doing this instead, or fixing this, or dealing with this problem, instead of sitting here playing word games and thinking up fantasy stories...which in turn does not exactly inspire writing something awesome in the first place

    I'm still struggling with picking between what I feel I should be entitled to do (pursue my passions) and what others have called 'facing reality and getting on with it' and somehow I can't..I cant find energy to do both. And I feel ridiculously incompetent in the stuff that people seem to feel I *should* take care of... Oddly, people prefer when I do the first, but bitch when I don't do the second.

    Can someone tell me if there is a way out of this catch-22?
    In terms of the theory I think these are average 1 traits. We burden ourselves with a lot of "shoulds" and beat ourselves up for not meeting them perfectly, which then wears on our confidence & motivation (which feels like lack of energy, I think). When we're integrating we have better discernment on what is really important & what is a realistic standard (more like a healthy 1). I don't really know how to control that...I guess it starts at awareness & making choices about your own thinking & behavior.

    I went through a period where I had a sort of mantra of "being nice to myself", being forgiving & supportive in the way I would be to a friend. I think I grew as a person. I've noticeably had an easier time making friends since then. I've given myself permission to say stupid things, run late sometimes (or a LOT, because that's my flaw & it's not any worse than anyone else's), whatever. This helps me stay motivated, because I feel less incompetent when I don't demand perfection of myself. Then the more I DO, the closer I am to who I feel I am internally (or who I WANT to be, I guess), and the more confident I am to keep putting myself out there. That is a positive cycle.

    It's easy to fall back into negative cycles though, because 4s tend to notice what is lacking, and having very high standards with nothing ever being perfect means we'll always be let down by the reality of ourselves & the world. The dwelling on the negative makes everything feel meaningless (& this is a 5 influence), and then always being obligated to do meaningless stuff makes you feel that your life is dull, that you're wasting your potential, and that you have no significance. Then you have no motivation to do much of anything, which feels like a physical lack of energy even. This makes you feel increasingly less competent & as you do less you fall farther from your too high ideals.

    For me, a more positive cycle can start with: consciously replace negative thoughts with positive ones to "rewire" my thinking habits ----> act on the positive thoughts even if I don't believe them yet (this is hard when you feel it's "fake" because it doesn't align with "how you feel") ----> notice the good & reinforce the action with positive thoughts on the good ----> genuinely feel the good & feel motivation ----> continue.

    That is not easy & I always feel like I am tricking myself at first, but once I'm firmly in it, it feels more natural. It's easy for me to lose awareness again & fall back into old habits. The ego fix is like an addiction! :P
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  8. #18
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    oes anyone else feel like they aren't entitled to focus on their passions coz they are non-stop trying to figure out, apologise and better themselves in all the things they are *not* good at in order to navigate the world and not disappoint/burden others?
    Well, it has nothing to do with whether I focus on my passions or not, but I do struggle to take credit for what I'm good at when I'm sucky, or just disappointingly mediocre, at so many other (related) things.

    It feels like dishonesty.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #19
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Interesting thread and I like the explanation given in the op. The way I imagine e4s is, as overanalytical, depressed people who can even make Gengish Khan cry by simply telling how they feel each morning. The op however changed my perspective about them especially as it opened my eyes as to how competent some/most of them are to whatever they are passionate about. Therefore I'm really interested in following the replies.
    Wow, glad it had that effect!

    I'm also interested in hearing these replies. Thanks everyone for replying so thoroughly. =D I will respond individually when I have a chance. Keep it coming, 4s =,)
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  10. #20
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Without reading everything that's been said so far (I skimmed), I'd say that competency...or adequacy (same meaning, different feeling) matters more to me than I would like it to.

    How concerned are you with competency adequacy?
    It's not my first priority-- authenticity and what I see as "right" come first. Right behind though, adequacy at what I'm interested in or what I'm spending time doing definitely comes into play. Note though, that it's the actual adequacy, really doing whatever it is well, that counts. Not seeming to be competent.

    Does it give you a sense of identity or purpose to be good at something?
    It contributes to my sense of identity and purpose.

    Do you want others to know what you're good at, or do you do it just for yourself?
    I think I would like people to know and appreciate what I am good at, but I tend to hide my skills to some extent. I think this is mostly because I hate show offs, but also because I think I fear a negative reaction. Most of the things I am good at, I do out of self expression and so it's a bit precious to me I guess. Too precious and part of me to risk showcasing.

    Would an accomplishment feel less authentic or genuine if you showed it off?
    I repeat: I hate show offs. There is a difference between showing off and sharing a skill with people though, I do believe it's a fine line. The difference is in the intent and the condition of a person's heart. I know my heart is in the right place to share my skills, but I feel weird and arrogant doing so. A good example would be this: I sing, but the only time people usually hear is during praise + worship at church (that's aside from close friends who hear me sing w/ the radio in the car, etc). I am being a bit challenged in this area of share vs. don't share recently though, as I've considered the possability of selling my artwork. I've done paintings for friends and family who have asked, but to expect strangers to like my work is weird and presumptuious to me. We'll see if I can get over it!

    Is perfection and correctness important to you? Is this part of your definition of authenticity?
    Ha, perfection!?! No. Authenticity to me is the ability to tell truth (even if it's ugly) without pretenses or ulterior motives. Authenticity is correct, to be correct is to be authentic-- that's how I see it anyway. This is exactly why I hate show offs, they are showcasing their abilities for praise (ulterior motives). So not authentic.

    Do you correct your posts?
    Down to the comma, if I notice it. Quite a clever question. In light of my answer to the last question, editing my posts would seem incorrect yes? Hmmm...
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