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  1. #21
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I don't fantasize myself as being male at all. (Although I do think it would be cool to stand and pee once. Just once though.)

    I don't really have any issues, myself, with being female.. the issues stem from societal parameters that favor men. When I was younger, I translated that into "Damnit, if I was a man I could play football.." but as I've grown older, I realize that people don't care what should be, only what is. So I work around it now. It could have easily blossomed into resentment, but it turns out that I related more to men than I did women growing up, so since most of my friends were male at the time that resentment never really blossomed. Glad thing it didn't either, it looks ugly on people. Society is lazy and stunted in the intellectual field, not men.

    I do remember thinking of myself as superheroes as a kid, but I would always be the female version of it. I would be Iron Man, Samus-style. I would be Batman, only I'm a female.. but all of the personality quirks and such would be there. I'm fairly sure I was even asexual most of the time--I didn't ever assign a gender to the position.. I just made very little differentiation between the two genders, and I still find them to be very closely linked.

    I don't get offended when people have mistaken me for male before in the past.. there's nothing offensive about that. But I don't really want to be one at all, I am fine with who I am and I always have been. My problems seem more to stem from other people assuming I want to be male because I do x or think like 'a man' to them. People have a hard time believing there are people very sure of themselves and what they want.. so when I say I have a slightly violent side to me since I have no qualms fighting for those I want to protect, they assume I think like a man because of that. To me, this is a human instinct, not a male instinct, although it is certainly predominately displayed in men since society sort of nurtures it all to be that way.

    A mistake I made when I was younger was dressing like a man to be treated like one. It worked. In high school and throughout some of college. Then it stopped working. As guys got older, they either didn't care all what I wore or they still knew I was a girl beneath those clothes.. so guys who wanted to flirt were going to do it no matter what I wanted them to do. I cannot control their actions. So, it has only been recent in my life where I have been developing my own 'style' of clothing, since I used to tailor that to meet my needs via what others thought of what I wore. It's been a pretty fun experience to create a style of my own.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

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  2. #22
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting! This is a great post.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I don't fantasize myself as being male at all. (Although I do think it would be cool to stand and pee once. Just once though.)
    *smirk*

    I don't really have any issues, myself, with being female.. the issues stem from societal parameters that favor men. When I was younger, I translated that into "Damnit, if I was a man I could play football.." but as I've grown older, I realize that people don't care what should be, only what is. So I work around it now. It could have easily blossomed into resentment, but it turns out that I related more to men than I did women growing up, so since most of my friends were male at the time that resentment never really blossomed. Glad thing it didn't either, it looks ugly on people. Society is lazy and stunted in the intellectual field, not men.
    I've never resented men either. I'm also lucky that my parents raised me as a human rather than a man or a woman. I could wear what I want, play in the mud if I want, have toy guns rather than barbies, and I was never told it wasn't feminine.

    However, as an intellectual exercise, I have wondered if I feel more male than female. My parents are both psychiatrists and we have a lot of table-talk about subjects like this; like which aspects of the male or female mind are really male or female, or which are just social "norms."

    I do remember thinking of myself as superheroes as a kid, but I would always be the female version of it. I would be Iron Man, Samus-style. I would be Batman, only I'm a female.. but all of the personality quirks and such would be there. I'm fairly sure I was even asexual most of the time--I didn't ever assign a gender to the position.. I just made very little differentiation between the two genders, and I still find them to be very closely linked.
    I relate to this a lot. In fact, I wrote my first sci-fi novel with a female heroine when I was in middle school - the writing was so bad, but the plot was pretty action oriented and intense.. and I remember thinking, "how come the action heroes are always male? I'm going to change that..."

    I don't get offended when people have mistaken me for male before in the past.. there's nothing offensive about that. But I don't really want to be one at all, I am fine with who I am and I always have been. My problems seem more to stem from other people assuming I want to be male because I do x or think like 'a man' to them. People have a hard time believing there are people very sure of themselves and what they want.. so when I say I have a slightly violent side to me since I have no qualms fighting for those I want to protect, they assume I think like a man because of that. To me, this is a human instinct, not a male instinct, although it is certainly predominately displayed in men since society sort of nurtures it all to be that way.
    You could say that again...

    I would say there's a very 'nurturing' aspect to the type 8 stereotype.. obviously there's that line to 2.. but the idea of fighting to protect something is very tigress/huntress/feminine, if you think about what it really is.

    I don't know what Sarah Connor's enneagram type would be (in Terminator 2) but is that not a bad-ass, strong woman who is fighting to protect her young? There's nothing unfeminine about that.

    A mistake I made when I was younger was dressing like a man to be treated like one. It worked. In high school and throughout some of college. Then it stopped working. As guys got older, they either didn't care all what I wore or they still knew I was a girl beneath those clothes.. so guys who wanted to flirt were going to do it no matter what I wanted them to do. I cannot control their actions. So, it has only been recent in my life where I have been developing my own 'style' of clothing, since I used to tailor that to meet my needs via what others thought of what I wore. It's been a pretty fun experience to create a style of my own.
    Ha.. I have my own style too. When I say I'm more comfortable in male -ish clothes, what I mean is - I love leather jackets and tight rockstar jeans. But, I don't have a curvy figure with big boobs and big ass and tiny waist. My figure is pretty straight, with slight curves. I look hot and sexy in my dad's clothes, and he was a rockstar in the 60's so.. that style may have rubbed off, since I am shaped very similarly to him, overall. However, I really relate to what you wrote here - I don't shop for male or female clothes; just for what looks and feels good on ME. Some people would say it's unfeminine but I just don't have the figure for most dresses, and even if I did, I'd wear what I want, when I want.

    And while I'm not ridiculously flashy, I do like some flare; my own flare. I'll leave the house in pajamas if I feel like it; or go out in public in my gym clothes if it's convenient. I also rarely wear makeup unless I'm on stage. But if I am going to dress nice (outside of stage clothes), the rockstarish leather look really turns me on.

  3. #23
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I don't fantasize myself as being male at all. (Although I do think it would be cool to stand and pee once. Just once though.)

    I don't really have any issues, myself, with being female.. the issues stem from societal parameters that favor men. When I was younger, I translated that into "Damnit, if I was a man I could play football.." but as I've grown older, I realize that people don't care what should be, only what is. So I work around it now. It could have easily blossomed into resentment, but it turns out that I related more to men than I did women growing up, so since most of my friends were male at the time that resentment never really blossomed. Glad thing it didn't either, it looks ugly on people. Society is lazy and stunted in the intellectual field, not men.

    I do remember thinking of myself as superheroes as a kid, but I would always be the female version of it. I would be Iron Man, Samus-style. I would be Batman, only I'm a female.. but all of the personality quirks and such would be there. I'm fairly sure I was even asexual most of the time--I didn't ever assign a gender to the position.. I just made very little differentiation between the two genders, and I still find them to be very closely linked.

    I don't get offended when people have mistaken me for male before in the past.. there's nothing offensive about that. But I don't really want to be one at all, I am fine with who I am and I always have been. My problems seem more to stem from other people assuming I want to be male because I do x or think like 'a man' to them. People have a hard time believing there are people very sure of themselves and what they want.. so when I say I have a slightly violent side to me since I have no qualms fighting for those I want to protect, they assume I think like a man because of that. To me, this is a human instinct, not a male instinct, although it is certainly predominately displayed in men since society sort of nurtures it all to be that way.

    A mistake I made when I was younger was dressing like a man to be treated like one. It worked. In high school and throughout some of college. Then it stopped working. As guys got older, they either didn't care all what I wore or they still knew I was a girl beneath those clothes.. so guys who wanted to flirt were going to do it no matter what I wanted them to do. I cannot control their actions. So, it has only been recent in my life where I have been developing my own 'style' of clothing, since I used to tailor that to meet my needs via what others thought of what I wore. It's been a pretty fun experience to create a style of my own.
    To answer your unspoken question : guy peeing is like being awesome 1000 times a year. It's grand.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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  4. #24
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    To answer your unspoken question : guy peeing is like being awesome 1000 times a year. It's grand.
    You know, it was actually only recently when I adopted this 'you know, it would be cool once...' thing. I was reading Game of Thrones, and Tyrion (SPOILERS) talks about wanting to piss on the edge of the world, and makes a horridly long trip to the frozen north JUST so he can pee off the side of The Wall 700 ft in the air... and he made it sound so grand and worth the trip.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  5. #25
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    You know, it was actually only recently when I adopted this 'you know, it would be cool once...' thing. I was reading Game of Thrones, and Tyrion (SPOILERS) talks about wanting to piss on the edge of the world, and makes a horridly long trip to the frozen noth JUST so he can pee off the side of The Wall 700 ft in the air... and he made it sound so grand and worth the trip.
    Forget fast cars and unicorns. Peeing is the name of the game
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #26
    Member Vergil's Avatar
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    @Maybe

    download.jpg

    This would be the ideal me while still being female. I wouldn't mind being less endowed.
    Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive.

    ~George Bernard Shaw~


    *1w9-5w6-4w3 sx/sp* *ENTP* *ILE - selector*

  7. #27
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    @Maybe

    download.jpg

    This would be the ideal me while still being female. I wouldn't mind being less endowed.
    Hot ^^

    This is how I feel much of the time:


  8. #28
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Forget fast cars and unicorns. Peeing is the name of the game
    Haha, I can sometimes ask my male friends if they want to pee criss-cross together with me XD

    In general, I tend to identify with the males I wear as avatars. Funnily enough, I guess most would find them in terms of masculinity effeminate. Like my current avatar is of Hei from Darker Than Black:


    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  9. #29
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    I already answered once but I can do so again:

    I am curious, to what degree do 8 females feel male?
    50/50. I feel more like inbetween gender than being clearly defined. Should clarify as I've been thinking more about this: there are times when I feel clearly like a man, not just masculine, but manly, like I see myself through the eyes of a man. I'm pretty much in this period now. I don't experience my body as female, I see the persona I project as a man with a phallus. I see myself as being aggressive, combative, competitive, action-oriented, domineering and push among other things. It's most of all a mental image though.

    Do you imagine yourself as a man in the work place?
    No.

    Do you dream of having a literal phallus?
    As in finding it desirable? No. I can dream about being a man though, but I think for me it's more metaphorical usually, in the sense of action/penetration logic than passivity/reception. See the answer to the first question also.

    Do you fantasize about being a male super-hero, or identify with male role models tremendously?
    Yes, usually more than I do female. I think this has more to do with the actions though. Male heroes behave in a way female heroes don't tend to which I find overall less attractive and have a harder time identifying with. I mean, compare say, I don't know, Ariel to Hei? Sorry, bad comparison probably. I can't think of a good female hero at this point in time in a story for grown-ups that's not pushed towards a more masculine role. Anyway, regardless, there tend to be specific behaviors and attitudes I still don't share with those characters. I like stoically silent but emotionally volatile and vulnerable men the most in fiction. I relate very strongly to them and I think they represent my animus. They're me in so many ways the female counter-part would not be. Again, Hei is a perfect example. I relate so much to him.

    Are your friends predominantly male?
    After re-evaluating how I view friendships, I guess in a way, yes I do, part because I have a tendency to participate in male-dominated activities like playing video games. Also, I kick the guys' asses. Hater's gonna hate. I don't give two fucks about our gender when we play. In play it's all fair game as long as it's not against the rules and I'll prove that I'm the better one. Don't hold my gender against me and do definitely not underestimate me based on my gender. I've been involved in male clique groups where people perform at a very high level in video gaming (e.g. hardcore raiding in WoW) and I can outperform these men on good days. I'm logical, analyical, cut and dry and I'm not going to sit on my ass and expect someone to save me. I'm the one who saves you. The idea of saving a guy kind of turns me on. I think that's part why I have such a strong attraction towards 4 or 5w4 men and INFP men. I want to emotionally protect them.

    How does the phallic-narcissistic mindset manifest in you?
    Mostly in the forms to dominate and conquer and to a degree control. Competitiveness, to prove that I'm the alpha "male". Also, see the above.
    Last edited by Entropic; 03-14-2013 at 08:51 AM.

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  10. #30
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Since I haven't actually done this yet:

    I am curious, to what degree do 8 females feel male?
    I feel carnal, and my body feels "right" to me, but I have always had male alter-egos as well as female. (I'm a multi-media artist, so the alter-egos are not something I apply to real life, but rather, personal expression.) When I read descriptions of male and female thinking, I often relate to aspects of both. On online tests, I tend to score much higher as a male. When I encountered the idea of transgenderism - when I was about 18 - I read about it, curious about the process. The moment I learned that I'd have a small package if I were to go through the operations to become male, the idea was thrown out the window. It's too important to me that I can dominate. As a female I do just fine. Plus, I don't suffer "body dysphoria." It's just that some of my social habits are more stereotypically male. Stereotypical - however - is different from something that actually makes a person male. I'm realizing lately that I'm a woman through and through, but more of a huntress than some women.

    Do you imagine yourself as a man in the work place?
    No, but I love dressing in drag and imitating male guitar players like Slash. My body is pretty androgynous and I get a rush out of pulling this off. But it's more of a fun rush than something I think about regularly.

    Do you dream of having a literal phallus?
    I'm mostly into men irl, but in my dream life, I sometimes have a phallus and give it to women.

    Do you fantasize about being a male super-hero, or identify with male role models tremendously?
    In my dreams I have the ability to fly, and outside of the sexual scenario I mentioned above, I am usually female in my dreams. My fantasy/sci-fi novels have strong male characters, but the protagonists are *always* female. Some characters of each gender are more heroic than others. In my current novel I identify most closely with a male character, but in some of my others, the female protagonist has been very similar to me, or some super-heroine version of myself.

    I don't look for role models, and I function independently. But I can think of two occasions in which I was deeply inspired by someone's work, and those cases are Trent Reznor and a local male musician that I know. My father was a famous rockstar, and he's a lot like me genetically, so he probably served as more of a role model than my mother, even though I trust her and admire and respect her. She's just so different from me, as a character, that I may have picked up more habits from my dad without realizing it. (For context, my father is an ENTP 7w8, and my mother is an INFJ, and probably a 9 or 6.)

    Are your friends predominantly male?
    They were through most of my teens and early 20s, but in my late 20s I started connecting more deeply with a higher percentage of females.

    How does the phallic-narcissistic mindset manifest in you?
    I always feel a drive to push forward. My goals can feel myopic. Once I get going on a project, I can feel as though my whole mindset is sort of a "phallus" because I have this very direct aim at something I want, and I can't possibly do it enough - I enjoy every aspect of trying to achieve a goal, and the chase is just as fun as the reward.

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