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  1. #21
    Member Vergil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    Hmm.. would you say that criticizing yourself before others can would help you avoid feeling bad about criticism, so actually while you convince yourself it's for the sake of being right, it's also self-protection? Armor of sorts?
    It is indeed like an armor. It's like priming yourself for the assault that is to come from outside.

    "I have already criticized myself, so I know what kind of feelings are likely to be evoked within me. I am therefore better prepared to handle those feelings when people start their onslaught."
    Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive.

    ~George Bernard Shaw~


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  2. #22
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    It is indeed like an armor. It's like priming yourself for the assault that is to come from outside.

    "I have already criticized myself, so I know what kind of feelings are likely to be evoked within me. I am therefore better prepared to handle those feelings when people start their onslaught."
    Really! That is not at all how I approach it. (How I approach it is on the previous page.)

    ... interesting!
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  3. #23
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    @Vergil @EJCC

    That is very interesting that you both approach it differently. o0
    @EJCC - do you know your tritype and MBTI ?
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  4. #24
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    EJCC - do you know your tritype and MBTI ?
    They're both in my sig.

    As I understand it, type 1 + ENTP is extremely uncommon, while my type (discounting the 7 head fix) is much more common. So that may be part of it.

    Also, the idea of an "assault from outside" is not something I relate to at all, as my type does not include self-pres (first or second), 6, or 5.
    Last edited by EJCC; 03-14-2013 at 03:49 PM. Reason: typo!
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    They're both in my sig.

    As I understand it, type 1 + ENTP is extremely uncommon, while my type (discounting the 7 head fix) is much more common. So that may be part of it.

    Also, the idea of an "assault from outside" is not something I relate to at all, as my type does not include self-pres (first or second), 6, or 5.
    Actually I bet the 9 wing has a lot to do with the "assault from the outside." The way I describe 9's is that they are an objecting passing through space being absorbed into other peoples' agendas, often forgetting their own agendas. For this reason 9's often lose sight of what they need. The 1w9 would probably mean he is unaware of himself that he has to figure it out before others do, because when he doesn't have himself figured out, the boundaries are almost completely open to anyone with input whether he knows it or not.

    as an 8w9, The only time my boundaries are completely up 100% is when all of my needs are met. However I'm often oblivious to what those needs are, so my mind is usually open to others telling me what I need. At this point I absorb the information, try to metabolize it, and if it pisses me off I spit it out and get hurt. This actually feels very much like a form of assault from the outside that I'm constantly defending myself against. My identity often disappears when I stop moving or making decisive action.

  6. #26
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    They're both in my sig.

    As I understand it, type 1 + ENTP is extremely uncommon, while my type (discounting the 7 in my trifix) is much more common. So that may be part of it.
    Yeah. @Vergil and I have a similar issue - if anyone in the world is correctly typed at 1, it's her.... but both of us don't always fit the "persona'' because she's ENTP and I'm Ne-F (Ne/Fe | Ti) type 8, plus we have fixes at 5 and 4, so we're more similar to each other in many ways than we are to people of our own core. But the core differences are still there.

    Hmm, any theories for why ENTP 1 would be so uncommon?

    Also sorry - I missed your sig

    Also, the idea of an "assault from outside" is not something I relate to at all, as my type does not include self-pres (first or second), 6, or 5.
    Ah, makes sense.

    It's interesting though - you type at SO instinct and yet don't need social approval, don't feel averse to criticism? How does the SO manifest with your inner critic?
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  7. #27
    Member Vergil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Really! That is not at all how I approach it. (How I approach it is on the previous page.)

    ... interesting!
    I used to be my own fortress...quite literally. :P
    Criticism of the self in solitude is for improvement. Criticism of the self as a preemptive strike is damage control. I do both.

    ...and my unusual MBTI-Enneagram combination is the root of some of the above behaviors, I guess.
    Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive.

    ~George Bernard Shaw~


    *1w9-5w6-4w3 sx/sp* *ENTP* *ILE - selector*

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    I used to be my own fortress...quite literally. :P
    Criticism of the self in solitude is for improvement. Criticism of the self as a preemptive strike is damage control. I do both.

    ...and my unusual MBTI-Enneagram combination is the root of some of the above behaviors, I guess.
    read my above post about the 9 wing tell me what you think.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    I used to be my own fortress...quite literally. :P
    Criticism of the self in solitude is for improvement. Criticism of the self as a preemptive strike is damage control. I do both.

    ...and my unusual MBTI-Enneagram combination is the root of some of the above behaviors, I guess.
    ^ Do you think that can have to do with being 5 fixed, not to mention 4, too? Both are withdrawn types.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Actually I bet the 9 wing has a lot to do with the "assault from the outside." The way I describe 9's is that they are an objecting passing through space being absorbed into other peoples' agendas, often forgetting their own agendas. For this reason 9's often lose sight of what they need. The 1w9 would probably mean he is unaware of himself that he has to figure it out before others do, because when he doesn't have himself figured out, the boundaries are almost completely open to anyone with input whether he knows it or not.

    as an 8w9, The only time my boundaries are completely up 100% is when all of my needs are met. However I'm often oblivious to what those needs are, so my mind is usually open to others telling me what I need. At this point I absorb the information, try to metabolize it, and if it pisses me off I spit it out and get hurt. This actually feels very much like a form of assault from the outside that I'm constantly defending myself against. My identity often disappears when I stop moving or making decisive action.
    I'm a coconut.
    To those whom I care about, my boundaries are flexible as hell. I am not as patient with outsiders. I don't care much. So, long as I have not violated any rules (mine, or, legal, organizational, etc.), any further expectations I do not meet are of no concern to me. So the first bit in bold is true only for friends. I am willing to consider even the most outrageous suggestions because I feel uncertain.


    As for the second bit, I am almost always open to input, I do not accept things until I have thought them through. I would like to think that I am pretty good at figuring myself out and I manage to weed out the accurate from the inaccurate, etc., given sufficient time. That is not like assault to me.

    What is assault to me, however, is quite literally an assault by means of words. Criticism is something I have a very hard time dealing with, but if others criticize me, rather than telling them off, I just take it in and see which parts are applicable and which are not. I have also noticed that it is easiest to understand a person, their motivation, their disposition towards you, etc., in situations where they are allowed to pass judgement on you. So, the manner of criticism, the words they use, the reasons they give...all of it is an insight more into them than me. So, if I am ever faced with a situation where I have judged poorly enough to be at the receiving end of much chastisement from other people (those who know my actions and how I failed) I will use it to learn both of my faults and the faults of others.

    The only part the preemptive self-criticism helps with is emotional management. I do not like to make emotional displays and try my level best to hold it in, as if I were "taking it like a man" :P So, if I criticize myself in advance, I will know what feelings to be watchful for and how to deal with them when people point their high and mighty fingers at me. =/

    @DJ Arendee - I have answered.
    Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive.

    ~George Bernard Shaw~


    *1w9-5w6-4w3 sx/sp* *ENTP* *ILE - selector*

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