[Type 8] Do 8s Have an Anger Problem?

[valaki]

One of the fundamental concerns of the Gut Triad is how the individual relates to their anger: type 8s express anger, type 9s avoid anger, and type 1s suppress anger. In both the Gut Triad and the Enneagram itself, 8s are the most at home with anger. As an 8, I have no qualms with letting someone know when they've pissed me off, and frankly find the experience of being angry cathartic. I have friends who also type as 8s who say that they generally feel some residual level of anger. For us, being angry is just something of a natural state.

I don't know what you mean by "generally" feeling residual level of anger? Does that mean constantly or just that it's easy to get into it? For me only the latter's true. Though, when I'm less healthy, it's more easy to get into it, so it could seem more constant.

That said, I'm beginning to wonder if it's healthy for me to take my anger for granted in the way that I do. The person I'm seeing now believes that I have an "anger problem", and that I ought to seek help for it. I'm not sure what constitutes a "problem", however. While I certainly have a temper, I have never been violent, and have never been one to stay angry about anything for too long. I'm debating whether I should listen to my SO and find a way to "manage my anger", or just find someone else who can deal with me on my own terms. I've always felt the anger that I feel is less about hostility and more about my inner fire--my personal sense of ambition, strength, and resiliance.

I guess you've sorted this out since then but I would've said, ask SO why he recommends this route of "managing anger". Does SO get hurt easily?

That btw, is the only problem I see about being angry. It can cause bad feelings in other people. Consequently, sometimes this will lead to antagonism, then being explicitly unliked by such people etc. etc. Even when I'm just being simply argumentative with a lower level of anger which I personally don't even perceive as real anger - just something enjoyable -, some people can feel bad about it. One of them told me that after talking to me they would have a ruined day sometimes. That was quite shocking to learn. And no, knowing this unfortunately didn't help, as I didn't change...

My question to other 8s is have you ever attempted to manage your anger? What prompted you to do so, and what were the results?

Well a long time ago, I thought I should be able to control it so I tried but I ended up with no results. I found I could not repress it, it would just come back stronger within a minute or so and I couldn't talk myself out of it either. So I left it at that, I decided it was better for me to stay this way and just let it out

To all: how do you define a healthy relationship with anger?

If you're already angry, better just let it out.

Other than that, I once saw a book about anger management that had the main message of not waiting until you get angry, you need to change your way of viewing the situation before you start reacting to it. Sounds complicated but I guess this is supposed to be the ultimate way to do things... I would have to change a lot for that though, I would have to learn thinking first before acting. No, better if you change/manage the situation itself.

All the same, I think there's a lot of power in being able to manage one's emotions even in difficult situations. Now I'm just working out when it's called for versus when to just let loose on someone.

So what did you learn about this? How do you decide when it's called for?

Sometimes when I get angry at certain people, in the long run, I end up feeling sort of bad about it, but I'll never think so in the moment. I think in the long run, letting anger run free is a bad thing, and one should learn how to better channel their anger. For the most part, I am not a very angry person at all. But in the times that I do get angry, people around me are very intimidated by what comes out, and they've often told me I need to fix or change myself. I'm probably not much older than you, if at all, but from my experience and sight, do you really think you can tie down your anger, if you are a type 8?

I couldn't imagine doing so.

I'm not sure I even want to, I like the feeling.

It doesn't mean it's always good, as you say.

That is why those around me have learned to circumnavigate.

What do they do exactly?

I've written on anger before, but to be short and brief I think it is very hard to be an 8 and not have anger issues. It sort of comes with the territory.

Yeah but why do you think so? A natural consequence of how 8's are? Tied to wanting control? Feeling good and alive with anger? Etc...

People don't really wake the beast in me, IRL.

Happens much more frequently here.

I've only gotten really really angry, like stay away from me angry, a maybe two times in the last 5 or 6 six years IRL.

Why more often online? Hmm I don't see much of a difference between online and IRL. Maybe IRL I'm a bit more angry.

Nice you only got that raging only two times in 6 years. Not that it happens very often for me, no, but more than that...

Same. I've gone full out warcry shouting at people probably twice in my life. It happens a lot online though.

God, just twice? In my family when I lived with them, shouting happened everyday. Like, real bad shouting My brother & me leading the way Sometimes parents too

I'm very intense when I'm feeling mobilized, and a lot of people interpret this as anger when it isn't.

Yep subjective definitions. When I'm just like, "normal argumentative", they think I'm very angry etc.

I find that when I am most enthusiastic, people think I am "insane," which is odd to me.

You just probably like to jump into things with real intense passion, some people have the tendency to start worrying about overdoing when they see that. A friend of mine is like that, when he worries about me, it's pretty annoying

 

[kyuuei]

Yeah but why do you think so? A natural consequence of how 8's are? Tied to wanting control? Feeling good and alive with anger? Etc...

It's kind of like asking why children throw tantrums. They're wired for it perfectly. I'm sure there are some children that don't ever really throw tantrums, but the way the brain, and mechanisms, and everything is set up.. it's primed for acting like a fool and not caring. Similarly, the personality of the type 8 is perfectly poised for anger issues. There are probably mellow 8s out there.. and while no one I know would say I have legit needs-help anger issues.. I cannot deny that anger is both my fuel and my crutch.

 

[valaki]

It's kind of like asking why children throw tantrums. They're wired for it perfectly. I'm sure there are some children that don't ever really throw tantrums, but the way the brain, and mechanisms, and everything is set up.. it's primed for acting like a fool and not caring. Similarly, the personality of the type 8 is perfectly poised for anger issues. There are probably mellow 8s out there.. and while no one I know would say I have legit needs-help anger issues.. I cannot deny that anger is both my fuel and my crutch.

OK I guessed you meant it like that; when I said "a natural consequence" I was referring to this. My question is more about how this wiring is/how it works exactly. That's what I listed options for ("Tied to wanting control? Feeling good and alive with anger? Etc..."). So, would you be able to give a neat explanation on that?

Oh and children throwing tantrums, I was one who definitely did.

 

[kyuuei]

"Tied to wanting control? Feeling good and alive with anger? Etc..."

All of the above. We crave control. Independence in a world where you increasingly need to rely on others to get anywhere. Feeling absolutely focused when angry. Feeling out of control in a lifestyle built on it via anger. There are so many mechanisms that feed loops tied to anger. It is the most corrosive and one of the most powerful emotions out there--and that naturally attracts the 8 that constantly has to flirt with that fire, bordering on not being so scared of it that you let it die out.. and it burning you.

 

[valaki]

All of the above. We crave control. Independence in a world where you increasingly need to rely on others to get anywhere. Feeling absolutely focused when angry. Feeling out of control in a lifestyle built on it via anger. There are so many mechanisms that feed loops tied to anger. It is the most corrosive and one of the most powerful emotions out there--and that naturally attracts the 8 that constantly has to flirt with that fire, bordering on not being so scared of it that you let it die out.. and it burning you.

Thanks nice makes sense ;p

 

[NK258]

I know I'm not an 8 and that is who you want to reply but I just want to say that I don't think 8's have an anger "problem". I think their life energy beautiful. It's as if their only real challenge is to submit to their very own power and fill their needs. Ironically, they are their greatest challenge to overcome.

I like 8's. Just the way they are. And I think they just need to relax, give up control, and give themselves a break. They're perfect just the way they are. <3

 

[valaki]

It's as if their only real challenge is to submit to their very own power and fill their needs. Ironically, they are their greatest challenge to overcome.

What needs do you mean here?

 

[NK258]

What needs do you mean here?

In order to lead, you must first learn to follow ...

 

[valaki]

In order to lead, you must first learn to follow ...

I see

 

[Azure Flame]

8's have anger problems because they need a hug

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Why more often online? Hmm I don't see much of a difference between online and IRL. Maybe IRL I'm a bit more angry.

Nice you only got that raging only two times in 6 years. Not that it happens very often for me, no, but more than that...

No consequences online. It's just words on a page.

It would be dangerous to allow my anger to get rolling downhill like that IRL.

 

[valaki]

8's have anger problems because they need a hug

Lol just how cute and romantic you are there!

No when I'm angry I don't feel like I need a hug. I actually don't find "being comforted" very helpful. But then maybe I just didn't experience it enough or not good enough

No consequences online. It's just words on a page.

It would be dangerous to allow my anger to get rolling downhill like that IRL.

Ahahah dangerous, cool.

For me the online stuff is less... slightly less real? So more anger IRL.

 

[Azure Flame]

when I'm angry its because I require cuddles.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

After recently, finally, figuring out my type for the last time, I can say that I do sort of have anger problems, but I have extreme self-control due to the severity anger might cause. I don't get angry often, but when I do, I either become extremely intolerant, aggressive, and energized (8w7 coping mechanism), or I will withdraw and become extremely cold, harsh, and vindictive (5w4 coping mechanism, strong fixation to 5). While the 5's self consciousness can be a strain when I feel angered or wronged, it is usually overshadowed by the sheer anger emphasized originally by the 8 and the emotional intensity and added emotional masochism with anger of the 4.

I also had to learn how to control my anger or risk getting in trouble a good deal when I was younger. The way I usually did this was by fantasizing about breaking things or hurting the people who wronged me, and it made me calm down a good amount. I still do this tactic today, it's just that I don't really get angry that much. I have gotten to the point where I've been so angry that I have to actually start solving unrelated intellectual problems in my head so that I couldn't divert my full energy at the problem that upset me, as in that scenario I would probably become highly impulsive and simply break anything in sight and make the problem worse.

 

[valaki]

when I'm angry its because I require cuddles.

hey cute

(not condescending!)

After recently, finally, figuring out my type for the last time

Where did the 3 go?

I can say that I do sort of have anger problems, but I have extreme self-control due to the severity anger might cause. I don't get angry often, but when I do, I either become extremely intolerant, aggressive, and energized (8w7 coping mechanism), or I will withdraw and become extremely cold, harsh, and vindictive (5w4 coping mechanism, strong fixation to 5). While the 5's self consciousness can be a strain when I feel angered or wronged, it is usually overshadowed by the sheer anger emphasized originally by the 8 and the emotional intensity and added emotional masochism with anger of the 4.

I also had to learn how to control my anger or risk getting in trouble a good deal when I was younger. The way I usually did this was by fantasizing about breaking things or hurting the people who wronged me, and it made me calm down a good amount. I still do this tactic today, it's just that I don't really get angry that much. I have gotten to the point where I've been so angry that I have to actually start solving unrelated intellectual problems in my head so that I couldn't divert my full energy at the problem that upset me, as in that scenario I would probably become highly impulsive and simply break anything in sight and make the problem worse.

Interesting, the diversion into fantasy and/or intellectual problem solving might be some N thing? I can't discharge anger related impulses this way. It's gotta be something physical for me. When angry I'm still lucid enough to not cause irreparable damage in my physical environment if I don't want it to be a pain in the ass later. So that part's okay.

I guess it's nice having self-control Maybe that's an Ni thing for you, trying to foresee consequences so much and that helps with self-control here.

Btw why did you decide on 8 core instead of 5 or 4 core? Just curious.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

hey cute

(not condescending!)


Where did the 3 go?




Interesting, the diversion into fantasy and/or intellectual problem solving might be some N thing? I can't discharge anger related impulses this way. It's gotta be something physical for me. When angry I'm still lucid enough to not cause irreparable damage in my physical environment if I don't want it to be a pain in the ass later. So that part's okay.

I guess it's nice having self-control Maybe that's an Ni thing for you, trying to foresee consequences so much and that helps with self-control here.

Btw why did you decide on 8 core instead of 5 or 4 core? Just curious.

Sanjuro typed me via a questionnaire and told me I was much more 8-ish than 3. Plus I realized that my social fears are out of looking weak to others rather than looking like a failure. He told me that I have a strong connection to 5, and we also figured out I had an 8-4 push-pull thing. Type 8 and 4 are complete opposites of each other, and can create a bit of a sadomasochistic-esque personality that might be akin to an unhealthy 3.

Well, given that I am a synesthete, I have exceptional visualization and an extremely vivid imagination to the point where I can shut out the real world completely and build another world/scenario in my mind, so I can build an extremely vivid scenario using my mind's eye that actually feels like I am hurting them and breaking things.

Yeah, if I couldn't foresee consequences, I would probably be dead or imprisoned.

 

[NK258]

I see

Lol! You like that I talk in riddles? *feeling the luv* >.<

 

[valaki]

Sanjuro typed me via a questionnaire and told me I was much more 8-ish than 3. Plus I realized that my social fears are out of looking weak to others rather than looking like a failure. He told me that I have a strong connection to 5, and we also figured out I had an 8-4 push-pull thing. Type 8 and 4 are complete opposites of each other, and can create a bit of a sadomasochistic-esque personality that might be akin to an unhealthy 3.

Oh I see... I might have 8-4 myself and do have strong connection to 5. But 7 as well... so we do differ a bit

Well, given that I am a synesthete, I have exceptional visualization and an extremely vivid imagination to the point where I can shut out the real world completely and build another world/scenario in my mind, so I can build an extremely vivid scenario using my mind's eye that actually feels like I am hurting them and breaking things.

Yeah, if I couldn't foresee consequences, I would probably be dead or imprisoned.

I'm not quite sure that it's all just because you're a synesthete, you know I'm one too but even though I have vivid imagination myself I don't feel like it's actually happening if I try to make myself part of the imagination. Thus the hurting others and breaking things in imagination would not be satisfactory to me.

Lol! You like that I talk in riddles? *feeling the luv* >.<

As long as they are explained afterwards

 

[NK258]

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION] well. I personally feel that dominance and control are two different things. You can't really dominate a situation w/out giving up a certain amount of control. If you're afraid of relinquishing control then you're essentially controlled by your fear and you're stuck fighting yourself to dominate the situation (in order to have actual control of any said such scenario).

8's have an intense animalistic energy about them and it's almost as if they're afraid to let go and just 'be' and trust that that's okay and good. It's bad only because they deny their very own need to be themselves. It's like, they put all this internal effort into asserting there right to be who they are and by default struggle actually 'being'. This is all just speculation because obviously I'm not an 8 so I really don't know. And I'll stop there because I'll probably just end up rambling about things I don't know. Because adorably, it'll be the 8ish thing to do to say, "you don't know" because they want to control what goes in. Essentially, what 2's and 8's have in common is their propensity to be stubborn and their want to figure it out for themselves. Lol!

But what do I know. That last sentiment is probably off the mark too.

 

[valaki]

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION] well. I personally feel that dominance and control are two different things. You can't really dominate a situation w/out giving up a certain amount of control. If you're afraid of relinquishing control then you're essentially controlled by your fear and you're stuck fighting yourself to dominate the situation (in order to have actual control of any said such scenario).

What do you mean by dominance here?

8's have an intense animalistic energy about them and it's almost as if they're afraid to let go and just 'be' and trust that that's okay and good. It's bad only because they deny their very own need to be themselves. It's like, they put all this internal effort into asserting there right to be who they are and by default struggle actually 'being'. This is all just speculation because obviously I'm not an 8 so I really don't know. And I'll stop there because I'll probably just end up rambling about things I don't know. Because adorably, it'll be the 8ish thing to do to say, "you don't know" because they want to control what goes in. Essentially, what 2's and 8's have in common is their propensity to be stubborn and their want to figure it out for themselves. Lol!

I'm not sure what you mean by "just being themselves". Elaborate?

I only say "you don't know" when I'm not actually asking for information and yes I can be pretty stubborn and I do want to figure stuff out for myself... still, I can ask for information and this is just such a situation.

But what do I know. That last sentiment is probably off the mark too.

Wasn't off the mark hey heh