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  1. #1
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    Default Differences between 8w9 and 9w8?

    What are they? How would a self forgetting individual choose between the two?

    With me, I often do what I want to do but sorta have no idea what that is. Its like the jetski is turned on and no one can stop me... but I have no IDEA WHERE I'M GOING!

    I accept others' input to a flaw, to the point that I absorb it and try it out, then realize it doesn't work for me and I get very angry at the person as a result. Sometimes this results in me accusing them of manipulation.

    Often times I have a lot of people in my life coming over and telling me what's best for me. I used to ignore it as a kid, until people started telling me to be "humble." This "humility" was a way to open my gate. I became "humble" and started accepting too much input, listening to others too much. This was a huge mistake and my life fell apart. I grew incredibly angry, closed the gate, and now consciously ignore everyone's input and the jetski is set to my own direction. I now ignore everyone else's feelings, and I antagonize those who try to make me give a shit about their concerns.

    However, sometimes women will come up to me and give me their life goals, and I'll wonder if its possible compromise my own dreams to connect ours together.

    I identify a lot with 9 and my life sorta feels like I'm navigating through a field of gravity wells. People start drawing me into their lives and I have to force them out to maintain the course of my own direction.

    At the same time I have a retarded amount of energy and regardless how much I pretend to agree with others, I assert my way regardless. This makes me lean toward 8 again.

    How I deal with anger somewhat varies. I don't like hurting people unless it is a last resort and they're not getting the message even though I have incredible thoughts of revenge. I'm often frustrated that most idiots don't have the sense of decency to respond to logic, and only respond to emotion. I've gone "all out anger" on people 3 times in my life, where I use the resonance frequency of the room to amplify my voice and become terrifying, often making my dad and other victims start crying, but Idunno if that's really core 8 or just a wing 8 at work. The other day a salesman convinced me to buy a suit for 1200 dollars because I have no idea how much suits costs. Needless to say, I felt humiliated and taken advantage of. I was incredibly angry, went out and bought 6 pounds of Mac and 3 Pounds of cheese. I really f***in like mac'n'cheese.

    Some of the 9 traits I identify heavily with are:
    -Heavy inertia, not responding to people quickly, hard to get the ball rolling. Most people think they need to yell at me to get me to do something. When they do I often respond with, "ok geez you dont need to yell." and just start mozying my way toward the job, haha.
    -Looking inward at who I am is very difficult and vague. What I want to do in my life is hard to describe to others and is very vague. "I want to do something kinesthetic and help people."
    -I can absorb other people's personalities into my own psyche to the point that I know what they're feeling and thinking. This also has a negative affect in which I am rather suggestible and easy to manipulate if I don't put my guard up.
    -I get angry after following other's advice that doesn't work.
    -I'll put on a front of agreeing with people even if I don't, mostly because I want them to stop talking to me and I don't want to create a scene.
    -I identify to an extent with having to defend myself from other's aspirations instead of my own. I have to remind myself, "this is what I'm after, this is what they're after. Ignore them and do what you do."

    Ideas? Is there a single arbitrating question that would help me identify which one I am? For the most part I'm still pretty set on 8w9, but I'm more curious to understand where the line is drawn between the two enneatypes. How much is 8, how much is 9?

  2. #2
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    Actually I think I figured it out. an 8's self esteem is based on their individuality while a 9's self esteem is based upon their feelings for others? Agree/disagree?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Actually I think I figured it out. an 8's self esteem is based on their individuality while a 9's self esteem is based upon their feelings for others? Agree/disagree?
    Disagree. Most 9s have problems with apathy. They have a push-pull on withdrawing/connecting. The self-esteem (at least for me) is based on understanding "everything". What I mean by everything is, people's point of views, peoples attitude, knowledge, the reason behind why such people are committing mistakes/sins. 9's core is understanding/acceptance. 8's core revolves around "control". 8 is energized and stimulated by conflicts, 9 gets drained by conflicts no matter how trivial the conflict is. 8 is not really humble. 9s are great in humility and humble in greatness. 8 is a natural badass. 9w8 is nice and passive by default but bad badass underneath .

    I know a person (relative) that is 8w9 to the core. He's very controlling at everyone (or maybe because he's very unhealthy). Uncompromising, abrasive, lustful, cynical to the people's motives, combative. When me and other people are talking about him, we always nickname him "The King", because his word is law. He won't ever EVER submit to anyone other than his own. He is quiet and peaceful if he is not provoked, but he always has an issue regarding anger, control, and pushing other people's boundary. He even sneaked up on other people's things or profile accounts/phones/text messages if one is not around. He's rude, totally unhealthy. But I've seen his good side, that's when he integrated to 2 and became helpful and protective of those people he cared about.

    Btw, both 8 and 9w8 have problems with authority. As much as possible 8 doesn't want to be "under" someone's control. 9 is okay about having someone who's in authority as long as, that person in authority is not rude, not very demanding, not very pushy, otherwise they would be like an 8 who will detest submission. 9w8 is somewhat a rebel type. Their peace is shaken when someone gets pushy and bossy around them and 9w8 strikes back and defend themselves aggressively. As much as possible they want to maintain tranquillity and comfort and inner peace.

    Why do you confuse yourself whether you're a 9 or 8? How controlling are you? How do you feel about conflicts?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porsche View Post
    Why do you confuse yourself whether you're a 9 or 8? How controlling are you? How do you feel about conflicts?
    It really depends how we define conflict.

    I don't like conflict when it involves me stating my opinion, and lots of people tell me I'm an idiot while they have nothing to say about the topic. They just tell me I'm an idiot and that's it.

    I do like conflict when it involves me stating my opinion, and someone rebuts logically and dispassionately.

    ... I also enjoy dolling out punishment to people who deserve it, maybe because I'm looking for an excuse to kick someone's ass anyway.

    As for being "controlling" I've tried to iron out most of that behavior in my life. I don't like the idea of being viewed as a controlling person. I'd much rather be viewed as a typical joe shmoe who is a nice guy... except when he isn't allowed to be. Socionics put it excellently when it said:

    If they have their aim on a victim, they act slowly, by the method of the "compressive ring".
    I can't really describe it any way other than that. It feels like I am surrounding someone from all angles. Every possible game theory option they could take, I've already thought about and taken into consideration. First I must talk to all of her friends and develop a positive relationship with all of them without them knowing my interest in the primary woman. If her friends are cock blocking guys, make friends with all of them, eventually my attention on them and lack thereof on her will draw her attention to me, thus causing all the other men to think we're already dating. Then once that is accomplished, I learn lots of facts about her. I talk to her until I have a solid grasp of who she is. I check the facts by having conversations with her friends who inadvertently let out information to cross check my own findings. Then once all that is done and I feel confident that I know the girl, I go in for the kill. At this point she has nowhere to run. She can't lie without me knowing she's a liar. She can't talk to other guys without me knowing who the competition is. She can't do this or that without me knowing what it is. She's all mine, she can't run away and hide. If she's truly not interested in me, I will know way beforehand, and I won't go in for the kill. I don't like to fight battles I can't win.

    As for my enemies, I only face them in an upfront direct way. If they're passive aggressive and being direct only makes problems worse, then I'll up the ante and beat them at their own game.

    Sounds fucked up? Maybe. Its mostly a game to me, and most NFJ's play these sorts of games right back, so its not a bad thing (relatively speaking). Most girls don't realize I do it. One girl found out I was already friends with all her friends and she FLIPPED OUT! haha. She had a lot of secrets she didn't want to reveal.

    Although, most of the time I just look at a girl and talk to her a few days then ask her out to see what her answer is. *shrug*

  5. #5
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    I can write a list of things that I struggle with.. Maybe that can help you a bit?

    - I do not struggle with conflict.. I struggle with avoiding conflict. Because I don't mind it, it is VERY easy for me to start a conflict and have it explode. I'm blunt, and abrasive, and I have issues communicating with people because I put things way too harsh.. especially in an American society where people are so so used to tip-toeing around issues. I've gotten much better as I've aged, but it is still something that plagues me often. I end up starting conflicts because I said x instead of xy. The only conflict that really drains me is the sort where it's all political games, smooth tongues, and dancing around issues. Those sort of things I am simply not cut out for.
    - Being in control of my life is of the utmost importance. I've done a LOT of stupid things in the attempt to be in control. I've dated men for a number of years that were complete retards and morons--and I KNEW they were.. but because I couldn't get a date worth my time, I decided I would 'decide' to date morons on purpose so I could get rid of them whenever I wanted. As a bonus, I couldn't get my heart broken again by a good guy that I genuinely wanted. A ridiculous notion, right?
    - Which brings me to my next point.. I don't like people knowing how far removed from society I really am. The way I think is uniquely my own--and very often it clashes with society. I think that people should be a certain way.. and it frustrates me to no end that they are not. I understand as much as I can logically--but I can't truly understand because people make no sense to me. The jobs I work, the things I do, they don't line up with the rest of society, and I often start conflict trying to make 'my' way work in the middle of society's path. And sometimes, it means having to cover up that I am drawing my lines all over their sand. I would pretend to like these guys just so that people wouldn't know I willingly decided to date morons. Why would I want anyone knowing that? Which leaks into the next one..
    - I struggle with privacy. I don't like people invading my emotional space, my mind, the core to who I am, and stupid details that I genuinely don't care about.. which is so ironic since I am a complete open book. I willingly give information--but try to take it from me and I'll bite your hand. And give what I gave you to anyone else and I'm likely to sew your lips shut. My privacy helps me feel in control of my life. People violating my trust via my privacy is the quickest way for me to throw them out of my life.
    - I struggle, constantly, with bossing people around. I am SO so bossy. I wish I weren't, since it is a bit unbecoming, but it is there and I do have to curb it when necessary.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I can write a list of things that I struggle with.. Maybe that can help you a bit?

    - I do not struggle with conflict.. I struggle with avoiding conflict. Because I don't mind it, it is VERY easy for me to start a conflict and have it explode. I'm blunt, and abrasive, and I have issues communicating with people because I put things way too harsh.. especially in an American society where people are so so used to tip-toeing around issues. I've gotten much better as I've aged, but it is still something that plagues me often. I end up starting conflicts because I said x instead of xy. The only conflict that really drains me is the sort where it's all political games, smooth tongues, and dancing around issues. Those sort of things I am simply not cut out for.
    - Being in control of my life is of the utmost importance. I've done a LOT of stupid things in the attempt to be in control. I've dated men for a number of years that were complete retards and morons--and I KNEW they were.. but because I couldn't get a date worth my time, I decided I would 'decide' to date morons on purpose so I could get rid of them whenever I wanted. As a bonus, I couldn't get my heart broken again by a good guy that I genuinely wanted. A ridiculous notion, right?
    - Which brings me to my next point.. I don't like people knowing how far removed from society I really am. The way I think is uniquely my own--and very often it clashes with society. I think that people should be a certain way.. and it frustrates me to no end that they are not. I understand as much as I can logically--but I can't truly understand because people make no sense to me. The jobs I work, the things I do, they don't line up with the rest of society, and I often start conflict trying to make 'my' way work in the middle of society's path. And sometimes, it means having to cover up that I am drawing my lines all over their sand. I would pretend to like these guys just so that people wouldn't know I willingly decided to date morons. Why would I want anyone knowing that? Which leaks into the next one..
    - I struggle with privacy. I don't like people invading my emotional space, my mind, the core to who I am, and stupid details that I genuinely don't care about.. which is so ironic since I am a complete open book. I willingly give information--but try to take it from me and I'll bite your hand. And give what I gave you to anyone else and I'm likely to sew your lips shut. My privacy helps me feel in control of my life. People violating my trust via my privacy is the quickest way for me to throw them out of my life.
    - I struggle, constantly, with bossing people around. I am SO so bossy. I wish I weren't, since it is a bit unbecoming, but it is there and I do have to curb it when necessary.
    The bold. Bolded to the max.

    Its often the reason I get banned on a lot of websites and I'm left feeling like "OH COME ON!"

  7. #7
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    You put that better than I ever could.

    However I do the E9 Sx/So method of dating, which apparently is, throw yourself out there, get run over by a bus, go to the hospital, recover, dust yourself off and do it again. Why? Because the hurt goes away... or maybe I'm just ignoring the pain, I don't really know anymore.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I can't really describe it any way other than that. It feels like I am surrounding someone from all angles. Every possible game theory option they could take, I've already thought about and taken into consideration. First I must talk to all of her friends and develop a positive relationship with all of them without them knowing my interest in the primary woman. If her friends are cock blocking guys, make friends with all of them, eventually my attention on them and lack thereof on her will draw her attention to me, thus causing all the other men to think we're already dating. Then once that is accomplished, I learn lots of facts about her. I talk to her until I have a solid grasp of who she is. I check the facts by having conversations with her friends who inadvertently let out information to cross check my own findings. Then once all that is done and I feel confident that I know the girl, I go in for the kill. At this point she has nowhere to run. She can't lie without me knowing she's a liar. She can't talk to other guys without me knowing who the competition is. She can't do this or that without me knowing what it is. She's all mine, she can't run away and hide. If she's truly not interested in me, I will know way beforehand, and I won't go in for the kill. I don't like to fight battles I can't win.

    As for my enemies, I only face them in an upfront direct way. If they're passive aggressive and being direct only makes problems worse, then I'll up the ante and beat them at their own game.

    Sounds fucked up? Maybe. Its mostly a game to me, and most NFJ's play these sorts of games right back, so its not a bad thing (relatively speaking). Most girls don't realize I do it. One girl found out I was already friends with all her friends and she FLIPPED OUT! haha. She had a lot of secrets she didn't want to reveal.

    Although, most of the time I just look at a girl and talk to her a few days then ask her out to see what her answer is. *shrug*
    OMG! This reminds me of an 8 I'm talking about. When he was very young he courted a girl then built "fence around her". No guy could ever court her without him attacking them. Those guys who attempted to court the girl were rolling on the floor with dirt because of the type 8, and since then the girl's first and last boyfriend is that type 8.

    Nice game you play

  9. #9
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    I do not struggle with conflict.. I struggle with avoiding conflict. Because I don't mind it, it is VERY easy for me to start a conflict and have it explode.
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    The bold. Bolded to the max.

    Its often the reason I get banned on a lot of websites and I'm left feeling like "OH COME ON!"
    I never started a conflict. 9s are never offensive but always defensive and 9w8 is more aggressive when defending.

    Usually the 9s have tolerance for those who irritate them. They can forgive once, twice, thrice, until they reach a point where they explode. 9s forget their anger, 8s are expressive about anger and it is really overt, and they react so easily. 9s especially 9w8s are understanding but could really be physical when it comes to expressing anger. 9w1 represses anger, 9w8 embraces anger.

    In my case, it's all or nothing. It's either I forget it totally (not suppressing, but dissipating all of the anger felt) or express them overtly. Some of the things were broken because of my anger, and it happened many times, and part of my hands bled and also part of my feet bled.

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    double post

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