[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] Differences between 8w9 and 9w8?

[Entropic]

IME 9w8s don't seem very 8-like at all - at least on the surface. They're very mellow, go-with-the-flow people with a no-BS interior. A good description I read said that 9w8s, "display calmness from a position of strength".

I think 8w9s are going to be a lot more domineering and unperturbed by conflict. I read somewhere that 8w7s believe offence is the best defence, but 8w9s are all about setting up a good defensive system and waiting for others to make their move. So I suppose you could say 8w9s show "strength from a position of calmness".

I read those descriptions also and I kind of agree that 8w7 is more up-front and directly confrontational whereas 8w9 is more diplomatic.

 

[Animal]

My ex was a 9w8 and I'm an 8 (probably a slightly stronger wing 9).

I seek out conflict on the internet - through political debates or recently, another personality forum. But in my personal life, I don't fight much except if it's necessary.

When I dated a 9w8 for two years, we didn't fight often, but it was always me starting a confrontation. He would push me beyond the limit, showing up late, leaving his huge mess around and dishes, spending his money thoughtlessly and not having enough for food so that I had to pay; being lazy in ways that affected *me* and *my* schedule. He was a hard worker at work, but lazy at home, and I don't take well to imposition on my space and time. So I would confront him, and he would not fight back, and would make peace. Then, for a week he'd change his habits, and ultimately slip back into the same habits. I was always more take-charge, and when something came up that I was doing, which was unfair to him, I changed it, worked on myself, and took it seriously. Once I promise to do something, I do it. If I don't intend to do it, I say so in the first place. But he would just say something to appease me, and fail to do what he said, if he didn't feel like it at the time.

I don't want to make him sound all bad, though. He was very calming and kind and patient. When I gave him a list of all the things I needed him to do, I asked him what he needed from me, and he said, in essence, "I need you to believe I love you, and that when I do these things, it's not because I don't love you, but only because I have terrible habits. It's my own problem. I am not as goal-oriented as you. It doesn't mean I don't love you." He was my first long-term boyfriend, because prior, I never let anyone in and had issues with vulnerability. So, props to the 9w8 for softening me up.

That might help?

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION]
your initial post doesn't seem related to enneagram as much as personal boundaries. it sounds like yours are poorly defined and as a result you fluctuate from overly harsh/stand-offish to overly permissive and not asserting your own desires and needs. you might want to consider defining your own boundaries and the boundaries of others more clearly and learning to assert them without becoming excessively forceful or angry. anyway, just something to think about, it's a common problem of younger men in general

 

[Rasofy]

task will get easier once you disconsider the stupid wings

 

[Azure Flame]

IME 9w8s don't seem very 8-like at all - at least on the surface. They're very mellow, go-with-the-flow people with a no-BS interior. A good description I read said that 9w8s, "display calmness from a position of strength".

I think 8w9s are going to be a lot more domineering and unperturbed by conflict. I read somewhere that 8w7s believe offence is the best defence, but 8w9s are all about setting up a good defensive system and waiting for others to make their move. So I suppose you could say 8w9s show "strength from a position of calmness".

Hmm... Idunno if that's the best simplification because its still a little confusing, maybe the words need to change.

So an 8w9 would choose to become calm and a 9w8 would choose to become strong?

 

[Southern Kross]

Hmm... Idunno if that's the best simplification because its still a little confusing, maybe the words need to change.

So an 8w9 would choose to become calm and a 9w8 would choose to become strong?

Let me explain further:

9w8s don't avoid conflict like 9w1s. It doesn't bother them as much; they see conflict as something to be overcome and defused. They face it staunchly and try to hold things together, rather than try to escape as a 9w1 would. In that sense, their calmness comes from strength, not through avoidance. (calmness is the goal; strength is the means to achieve it)

The 8w9 don't overtly assert their strength like a 8w7. Charging in or going on the attack, like a 8w7, may seem rather like panicked aggression to 8w9. They see their strength as coming from the knowledge that they are well prepared; in their confidence that they will be able to tackle the challenges they may face. They feel secure in their abilities and show this through a forceful, self-assured composure, rather than engaging in a constant, all-out battle to prove their dominance. In that sense, their strength comes from calmness, not through outright antagonism. (strength is the goal; calmness is the means to achieve it)

So what I'm saying is the difference between them is down to which is their primary goal: strength or calmness. And also if they are pushed, what would they sacrifice first? A 8w9 would forgo the appearance of calm if they felt they were losing dominance over a situation, but a 9w8 would rather let things slide and retain harmony, than attempt to assert themselves.

 

[Azure Flame]

Let me explain further:

9w8s don't avoid conflict like 9w1s. It doesn't bother them as much; they see conflict as something to be overcome and defused. They face it staunchly and try to hold things together, rather than try to escape as a 9w1 would. In that sense, their calmness comes from strength, not through avoidance. (calmness is the goal; strength is the means to achieve it)

The 8w9 don't overtly assert their strength like a 8w7. Charging in or going on the attack, like a 8w7, may seem rather like panicked aggression to 8w9. They see their strength as coming from the knowledge that they are well prepared; in their confidence that they will be able to tackle the challenges they may face. They feel secure in their abilities and show this through a forceful, self-assured composure, rather than engaging in a constant, all-out battle to prove their dominance. In that sense, their strength comes from calmness, not through outright antagonism. (strength is the goal; calmness is the means to achieve it)

So what I'm saying is the difference between them is down to which is their primary goal: strength or calmness. And also if they are pushed, what would they sacrifice first? A 8w9 would forgo the appearance of calm if they felt they were losing dominance over a situation, but a 9w8 would rather let things slide and retain harmony, than attempt to assert themselves.

Thank you. That makes sense.

 

[Faceless Beauty]

I'll agree with 9's feeling invisible. I mean, I'm not a 9 but I can see how that could be true.

I disagree that 8's walk in feeling like "ok there's a new sheriff in town." At least, if I do, its unconscious. I've been called out on that behavior though. Its not something I consciously say to myself, "ok dj, its time to puff out your chest and make yourself look big. 1 2 3 *inhale* FFF!" However I find I'm different from a lot of 8's I've spoken to because a lot of people tend to do things knowingly in their head while I just do them because they feel like a good idea. So its hard to say who is right and wrong.

I wouldn't say that I feel invisible to everyone else, but most people are invisible or background noise to me.

 

[The Great One]

I read those descriptions also and I kind of agree that 8w7 is more up-front and directly confrontational whereas 8w9 is more diplomatic.

8w9 isn't diplomatic at all. 8w9's come off like a grizzly bear that is very dangerous but probably won't fuck with you unless they are provoked.

 

[Azure Flame]

8w9 isn't diplomatic at all. 8w9's come off like a grizzly bear that is very dangerous but probably won't fuck with you unless they are provoked.

I don't think 8w9's look dangerous at all unless they've chosen to strive for that. I was bullied all through high school and in the military because people mistakenly thought they could get away with it. Only now after 25 years have I decided to start consciously going more on the offensive around strangers.

I can easily intimidate people if I want to but my reasons for doing that are often times juvenile. I personally don't like the idea that people are scared of me and I try to make others feel comfortable around me... even though I'm awful at that. I get uncomfortable when people around me are nervous or on the guard. I actually take it a little personally when people are intimidated by me. For this reason I get especially angry at people who play victim around me.

 

[The Great One]

I don't think 8w9's look dangerous at all.

They don't necessarily look dangerous, but they kind of have this strong "Don't fuck with me or there will be trouble" vibe to them. You know not to mess with them.

 

[Faceless Beauty]

They don't necessarily look dangerous, but they kind of have this strong "Don't fuck with me or there will be trouble" vibe to them. You know not to mess with them.

I wouldn't say that they have a "dangerous" vibe to them. It's just a different brand of strength or energy that is less volatile than that of the 8w7, despite being veiled by outward calm.

 

[The Great One]

I wouldn't say that they have a "dangerous" vibe to them. It's just a different brand of strength or energy that is less volatile than that of the 8w7, despite being veiled by outward calm.

Again, I'm not saying that they have a dangerous vibe to them.

 

[Azure Flame]

Again, I'm not saying that they have a dangerous vibe to them.

8w9 isn't diplomatic at all. 8w9's come off like a grizzly bear that is very dangerous but probably won't fuck with you unless they are provoked.

So what are you trying to say?

lol just cut your losses and say you don't fucking know.

 

[The Great One]

So what are you trying to say?

lol just cut your losses and say you don't fucking know.

I meant that they have a "don't fuck with me vibe" and you know not to fuck with them. It isn't really that they are dangerous, they just come as bold and courageous.

 

[The Great One]

Typewatch explained how the 8w9 works a lot better than I can ....

8w9s tend to be more reserved and self-contained. They are more modest and friendly. They aren't as megalomanic as 8w7s. They are less likely to overestimate themselves. They speak in simpler language and seem less "heady" than 8w7s with their more drawn out cadence. They don't understand the eight-winged-seven self-destructive behaviour. They are more grounded and unmovable but they can get aggressive in a hurry if provoked. They are natural defenders who focus on solidifying structures as opposed to tearing them down and starting anew.

8w9s believe the best defense is to be well-fortified. They don't believe in preemptive aggression. They wait for the enemy to strike first and are natural counterpunchers. Their style of dominance is to endure whatever you throw at them and gradually steamroll you. They delight in pushing their weight against you and making you feel their physical presence. They are more "I am unbreakable and will steadily wear you down".

 

[Azure Flame]

Typewatch explained how the 8w9 works a lot better than I can ....

I can see some elements of truth to that, but that description sounds like someone's interpretation and some things are a little off, or exaggerated. This is why I ignore most of the typewatch descriptions

I've often employed the "I can last longer than you can" tactic on my punishers in the military. One guy punished me by posting me outside his door at 530am. I made it a point to get there at 5:15 and knock on his door loudly and obnoxiously to wake him up, then perform my chow calls before then. So after 3 and a half months of this he had bags under his eyes and begged his friends to take me off his hands. My goal was to make him miserable by outlasting him because I knew he didn't want to put forth the effort to punish me (for something inconsequential and stupid).

8w9s tend to be more reserved and self-contained. They are more modest and friendly. They aren't as megalomanic as 8w7s. They are less likely to overestimate themselves. They speak in simpler language and seem less "heady" than 8w7s with their more drawn out cadence. They don't understand the eight-winged-seven self-destructive behaviour. They are more grounded and unmovable but they can get aggressive in a hurry if provoked. They are natural defenders who focus on solidifying structures as opposed to tearing them down and starting anew.

8w9s believe the best defense is to be well-fortified. They don't believe in preemptive aggression. They wait for the enemy to strike first and are natural counterpunchers. Their style of dominance is to endure whatever you throw at them and gradually steamroll you. They delight in pushing their weight against you and making you feel their physical presence. They are more "I am unbreakable and will steadily wear you down".

lol... so basically according to typewatch, 8w9's are this:

ps: I <3 the rockbiter

 

[The Great One]

I can see some elements of truth to that, but that description sounds like someone's interpretation and some things are a little off, or exaggerated. This is why I ignore most of the typewatch descriptions

I've often employed the "I can last longer than you can" tactic on my punishers in the military. One guy punished me by posting me outside his door at 530am. I made it a point to get there at 5:15 and knock on his door loudly and obnoxiously to wake him up, then perform my chow calls before then. So after 3 and a half months of this he had bags under his eyes and begged his friends to take me off his hands. My goal was to make him miserable by outlasting him because I knew he didn't want to put forth the effort to punish me (for something inconsequential and stupid).



lol... so basically according to typewatch, 8w9's are this:

ps: I <3 the rockbiter

Well, I'm gonna take what you say with a grain of salt because most people on here and on PerC tell me that you're really a mistyped 6 in denial. I haven't really decided your type for myself yet though, so I'm not gonna judge you. However, if you were a mistyped 6, it would explain why you didn't relate to my post.

 

[Azure Flame]

Well, I'm gonna take what you say with a grain of salt because most people on here and on PerC tell me that you're really a mistyped 6 in denial. I haven't really decided your type for myself yet though, so I'm not gonna judge you. However, if you were a mistyped 6, it would explain why you didn't relate to my post.

Yeah. They also recently made a thread about me stating that the only thing I'm good for on this earth is "being attractive." So I'd take what they say with a grain of salt as well.

 

[The Great One]

Yeah. They also recently made a thread about me stating that the only thing I'm good for on this earth is "being attractive." So I'd take what they say with a grain of salt as well.

Again, I'm not judging you because I haven't really had a chance to really analyze you yet, so please don't get offended.