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  1. #1
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    Default need help with ISFP 4w3

    I'm trying to date an ISFP 4w3, I'm ESTP 8w9.

    I hear E4's tend to do a lot of push pull. every girl I've ever dated has been this way but its never actually worked out because the whole behavior is pretty confusing to me.

    Ideas? How long is this push pull crap supposed to take? When is she gonna actually open up to me and tell me about her personal interests? In the 9 months I've known her, how come she'll invite me, we get really close, flirty, touchy and cuddly, then at the end of the night she just flips and turns into a porcupine? how come she'll suddenly get really cold in our texts and not return my phone calls for weeks? How come when I'm about to give up on her and try to leave her she gets really emotional and pulls me back in? And how come she turns into a witch when things seem to be going perfectly all night?

    We've never gotten physical because she's scared once I do that I'll have what i want and just leave (not the case). She used to say we were just friends, until one day I told her (paraphrased) "I'm done chasing you, you're the reason I couldn't leave Colorado, I care about you and really like you." After 2 weeks of no contact, she calls me up in tears on thanksgiving asking me, "Why do you like me!?" and how she's attracted to me and really cares about me too but can't let me go because she'll be heartbroken, but can't get in a relationship with me because I'll just lose interest eventually and look elsewhere, so i'm supposed to just sit here at arms distance and suffer in constant sexual tension and deep feelings for one another even though apparently nothing is going to happen?!!!

    So is this typical E4 crap? What do I do? Should I just manipulate her and constantly pretend I'm on the verge of leaving? That seems to work but I don't really like the idea of doing that.

    Over time we're getting closer and closer. Ever since I told her my feelings for her she's been WAY more open with me than before. But at the same time this is frustrating.

    I think I love her, but I'm hesitant to tell her because... common wisdom sometimes says its best to keep that hidden. I once told her that "when I'm in love, I have trouble keeping it in." she responded with, "really?" *big hopeful eyes*

    Most of our emotional communication is nonverbal, as an ESTP I pick up on a lot of it. some examples include: enormous owl eyes watching me from the window of the bar an entire minute straight as I cross the street to join her; sometimes when I start to feel a warmth between us she'll sit with her hands between her thighs and squeeze her legs together and lean attentively toward me smiling subtly as I talk to her; long affectionate hugs of the entire body dragging her hands off of me as we part; hands on my back and arm lightly every so often when moving around me...

    Would an ISFP 4 act this affectionate around a 'friend'?

    Ideas? Thanks!

  2. #2
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    You don't have I tell her you love her right now. I'd advise against that right now even. Start telling her things you like about her and not just her physical or sexual traits and do it at random times (ie: not only when she's just whined to you about her insecurities). Don't act impatient around her or pressure her but do this for a while and see if she gets better but set a date in your own mind when you're gonna stop/end it and if you do don't announce it to her AT ALL or leave in a huff. Just quietly exit and make some other excuse.

    That's my advise but I'm not a 4.

  3. #3
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    On another note, I don't understand why people do this. If you don't like me okay fine but you can't not like me and act all clingy at the same time.

    Trust issues, man.

  4. #4
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    My advice is to just leave or seek relationship counselling. But since this isn't really a relationship counselling forum, and instead an enneagram forum lets look at other stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I'm trying to date an ISFP 4w3, I'm ESTP 8w9.

    I hear E4's tend to do a lot of push pull. every girl I've ever dated has been this way but its never actually worked out because the whole behavior is pretty confusing to me.
    Then stop dating in the reactive triad. Push-pull is not 4 specifically, but sounds like reactive triad in general. In the case of the 4, push-pull is internal, more inner drama, and usually not overt. More aloofness, pretension, and pride. Wtf is this flirty cuddly bs? It's inauthentic and playing games. The girl you describe may be an sx 4, I don't know I have trouble determining that subtype (it's rare imo).

    We've never gotten physical because she's scared once I do that I'll have what i want and just leave (not the case). She used to say we were just friends, until one day I told her (paraphrased) "I'm done chasing you, you're the reason I couldn't leave Colorado, I care about you and really like you." After 2 weeks of no contact, she calls me up in tears on thanksgiving asking me, "Why do you like me!?" and how she's attracted to me and really cares about me too but can't let me go because she'll be heartbroken, but can't get in a relationship with me because I'll just lose interest eventually and look elsewhere, so i'm supposed to just sit here at arms distance and suffer in constant sexual tension and deep feelings for one another even though apparently nothing is going to happen?!!!
    Sounds like an attachment type. Try this: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ar...p#.UQkakjSPWHc

    So is this typical E4 crap? What do I do? Should I just manipulate her and constantly pretend I'm on the verge of leaving? That seems to work but I don't really like the idea of doing that.
    No, not "typical E4 crap" at all. She sounds pretty shameless actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly
    On another note, I don't understand why people do this. If you don't like me okay fine but you can't not like me and act all clingy at the same time.

    Trust issues, man.
    You said it sister.

  5. #5
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    I really think she has issues beyond being type 4. She sounds like she's a mess internally and, in turn, making chaos externally. She might actually make things a self-fulfilling prophecy which will further validate her fears. Unless you are willing to become her "stable rock" and possibly go to relationship counseling, it probably won't work out.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    No, not "typical E4 crap" at all. She sounds pretty shameless actually.
    Interesting you say that. Are you referring to E4 "shame"? if so, how would the "shame" sort of manifest?

    As for the other responses, yes, she could very well be a mess internally. I still talk to other women but I'm not as close to them as I am to her. yeah I'll keep the compliments coming. She reacts very positively when I tell her what I appreciate about her, but I've only done this a few times. I suppose I could step it up a little and be more vocal about it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    On another note, I don't understand why people do this. If you don't like me okay fine but you can't not like me and act all clingy at the same time.

    Trust issues, man.
    Yes. I wonder this as well. I suspect issues with abandonment because she lost most of her family about 6 years ago. But I still don't know if she would be clingy toward "just a friend." She thinks her looks are all she has and I've only recently started explaining to her otherwise. She reacts very positively to it.

  8. #8
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Yes. I wonder this as well. I suspect issues with abandonment because she lost most of her family about 6 years ago. But I still don't know if she would be clingy toward "just a friend." She thinks her looks are all she has and I've only recently started explaining to her otherwise. She reacts very positively to it.
    Yes abandonment issues too. And I don't think you're just a friend. She probably likes you, but that doesn't mean more will come out of it though. People have issues and sometimes they are unresolvable. I'm serious. You can't waste your life (not to mention suffer during that time) waiting around for them, and it's not even polite to drive home the point to someone that they have issues to resolve, when they haven't even realized this themselves. Not to mention, it's not guaranteed that they'll get better in the end anyway after you and her have your semi-nonprofessional psychotheraphy. It's just not worth it sometimes, unless a) they're really ready to get better or b) you're so desperate that you can not do better anyway.

    Like I said, reassure her, give it a date and then quietly exit if nothing changes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Yes abandonment issues too. And I don't think you're just a friend. She probably likes you, but that doesn't mean more will come out of it though. People have issues and sometimes they are unresolvable. I'm serious. You can't waste your life (not to mention suffer during that time) waiting around for them, and it's not even polite to drive home the point to someone that they have issues to resolve, when they haven't even realized this themselves. Not to mention, it's not guaranteed that they'll get better in the end anyway after you and her have your semi-nonprofessional psychotheraphy. It's just not worth it sometimes, unless a) they're really ready to get better or b) you're so desperate that you can not do better anyway.

    Like I said, reassure her, give it a date and then quietly exit if nothing changes.
    Yeah you're right. I think I need to be open to other women in the mean time. Things might change, but I need to change my goals here. For the most part she seems to be getting better, and I often pride myself in my ability to uplift people, but sometimes I need to realize when the problem is out of my control.

  10. #10
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    I don't have any kind of enneagram perspective for the moment but ... you've stuck around this kind of behavior for 9 months. That probably says something about you as well. You sound frustrated, yeah, but also intrigued. Is there a possibility that you actually find it attractive and it keeps you interested? She may very well be picking up on those cues from you, unconsciously or otherwise, and playing them up to keep you around.

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