[Type 6] E6 - How to Trust

[Santosha]

Looking for thoughts and experiences from other E6's on how you've learned to trust. The world, other people, yourself. I attempt to rationalize or think myself through fear, but I sense this is just another mental loop somewhat disconnected from my emotions.

I want to feel trust, not just think it.

Ideas?

 

[highlander]

Looking for thoughts and experiences from other E6's on how you've learned to trust. The world, other people, yourself. I attempt to rationalize or think myself through fear, but I sense this is just another mental loop somewhat disconnected from my emotions.

I want to feel trust, not just think it.

Ideas?

The world? Not so much. Maybe I should work in that.

Other people? Learned the hard way it is destructive not to. It impaired personal progress and proved to be counterproductive. If you think about it, others do things for a reason and with a few exceptions have pretty good intentions. On the other hand, past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior and some level of healthy skepticism is wise to have which I apply based on how important of a situation it is.

Myself? I would have given myself a better grade on this a few years ago not because I have changed but becauase I lacked some self awareness. Though I am generally pretty confident and can be assertive and hold strong views, I do question my intuition or thinking at times. In some ways it is good because I seek out other's perspectives and generate consensus but in other ways, I can waste time and water down my actions. Self awareness is probably the first step.

 

[skylights]

e9 boyfriend is teaching me a lot about how to trust via optimism, not magnifying situations, and not jumping to worst case scenarios.

For example, we usually meet up in the evening (edit - I was writing this around 5 pm), but he hasn't contacted me back yet since early afternoon. My sx 6 impulse is to panic, try to track him down, send him a million messages, ruminate about where he is, and spend my evening waiting to hear from him. I know there is someone reading this now being like "this chick is crazy", but please understand that the emotion involved is not anger at him for being an independent being, but fear revolving around not knowing what's going on with him and if he's okay, along with the confusion of not being able to plan my night without his input, as I would prefer to spend it with him if possible - and we essentially have an unspoken agreement that we spend our nights together unless we specify otherwise.

I'm learning, though. I left him a voicemail and facebook message, in case his phone is dead or mine failed again like yesterday (it displayed my text to him 4 hours after I sent it). I've gone to the coffeehouse where we usually meet, gotten myself a drink I enjoy, and settled in to do some internetting. I'm going to go home soon and have dinner. I haven't driven to his house to hunt him down; I haven't blown up his phone; I've gone slightly out of my way to try to get up with him if he came here like usual, but I haven't deviated from doing things that are self-fulfilling because I feel anxious. My assumption is that he had a hard day, got some food, and fell asleep. He'll probably call me in a few hours when he wakes up, and we can go get some food together. Everything is going to be fine.

Trusting is weird. It's nice, though. It's like everything falls together in a way that works out just fine, when you just go about things as they arise. Though in typical 6 fashion, I am ready with my cascading sets of contingency plans if and when needed.


Edit - Speaking of, moments after writing this, he called me. Indeed, he fell asleep. We went and got food. We are still happy and in love. All is well.

 

[Rad3k]

Hey. I'm not strictly e6, so I don't know if this helps you, but anyway.

Trust is a complicated issue. I rarely fully trust others, there are few people that are close to me. I really hate exposing myself, showing my vulnerability. It probably has much to do with fear of rejection combined with bad experiences. So I enclose myself with a kind of emotional shell, the "outer me", that doesn't have any real vulnerabilities, and I pretend that it's the real me. That way I can entrust much to others, but inside I'm always prepared for things to go wrong, and I'm reasonably safe when they do. Sometimes I send "probes" to check if a person can be trusted more, and if they fail, I immediately back away (without showing it) before any harm can be done. I'm working towards getting stronger inside, so that I need less and less of this outer shell, and maybe eventually discard it altogether (but I'm not sure if it's possible while still being human).

There's one more important thing. I believe that most people are well intentioned and will not deliberately harm others. So if someone knows me well enough, I usually trust them in that they'll do the best they can. I know that if they failed me somehow, they would feel at least equally as bad about it as I would.

I'm curious how that relates to how you e6 perceive trust. What are you afraid of the most when putting your trust in others?

 

[Mempy]

I'm learning, though. I left him a voicemail and facebook message, in case his phone is dead or mine failed again like yesterday (it displayed my text to him 4 hours after I sent it). I've gone to the coffeehouse where we usually meet, gotten myself a drink I enjoy, and settled in to do some internetting. I'm going to go home soon and have dinner. I haven't driven to his house to hunt him down; I haven't blown up his phone; I've gone slightly out of my way to try to get up with him if he came here like usual, but I haven't deviated from doing things that are self-fulfilling because I feel anxious. My assumption is that he had a hard day, got some food, and fell asleep. He'll probably call me in a few hours when he wakes up, and we can go get some food together. Everything is going to be fine.

Trusting is weird. It's nice, though. It's like everything falls together in a way that works out just fine, when you just go about things as they arise. Though in typical 6 fashion, I am ready with my cascading sets of contingency plans if and when needed

This is a really good example of coping well given the uncertainty of the situation. It's also, maybe, a common type six problem--worrying about others, what the hell is going on, and putting your life on standstill until you get some reassurance.

But you didn't. You continued pursuing satisfying activities even though your night could have been more than a little ruined. You took care of yourself. Maybe the act of taking care of yourself helped maintain a positive, even-keeled mood, which helped with your explanations for the situation: Instead of "That jerk; he's completely inconsiderate! Not telling me what he's doing! Doesn't he realize what stress this causes me?" you thought, "Eh. Probably fell asleep. He'll call me when he wakes up. It's fine. I'm enjoying myself anyway." You didn't totally depend on another person to have a good night, which made it easier to (a) not hold someone else responsible for your feelings and (b) not jump to untoward conclusions about his behavior or character.

Trusting is partly about learning to be more optimistic, yes. But I tend to think it's ultimately more about learning to take care of yourself. Trust in yourself and your ability to take good care of yourself is the basis, I think, for trust and intimacy with others. You trust yourself to still pursue satisfying activities even in the wake of uncertainty or someone's absence; you take a certain amount of responsibility for your feelings; you're good to yourself and take care of your needs, whether or not anyone else does. Given all that, it's a lot easier to trust people, although maybe it's just that you don't need to as much.

 

[skylights]

This is a really good example of coping well given the uncertainty of the situation. It's also, maybe, a common type six problem--worrying about others, what the hell is going on, and putting your life on standstill until you get some reassurance.

But you didn't. You continued pursuing satisfying activities even though your night could have been more than a little ruined. You took care of yourself. Maybe the act of taking care of yourself helped maintain a positive, even-keeled mood, which helped with your explanations for the situation: Instead of "That jerk; he's completely inconsiderate! Not telling me what he's doing! Doesn't he realize what stress this causes me?" you thought, "Eh. Probably fell asleep. He'll call me when he wakes up. It's fine. I'm enjoying myself anyway." You didn't totally depend on another person to have a good night, which made it easier to (a) not hold someone else responsible for your feelings and (b) not jump to untoward conclusions about his behavior or character.

Trusting is partly about learning to be more optimistic, yes. But I tend to think it's ultimately more about learning to take care of yourself. Trust in yourself and your ability to take good care of yourself is the basis, I think, for trust and intimacy with others. You trust yourself to still pursue satisfying activities even in the wake of uncertainty or someone's absence; you take a certain amount of responsibility for your feelings; you're good to yourself and take care of your needs, whether or not anyone else does. Given all that, it's a lot easier to trust people, although maybe it's just that you don't need to as much.

You are right. What you said touches straight into the heart of the 6 core problem of looking outwards for security. Since I'm sx, I look first to my significant other, and I feel groundless when I can't know what's going on with him. So it really boils down to me trusting in my ability to provide my own security. I think one really good thing about the relationship for my enneatype is that it motivates me to want to be able to provide him with security, so I am forcing myself to learn to be more self-reliant.

 

[Evo]

Looking for thoughts and experiences from other E6's on how you've learned to trust. The world, other people, yourself. I attempt to rationalize or think myself through fear, but I sense this is just another mental loop somewhat disconnected from my emotions.

I want to feel trust, not just think it.

Ideas?

I'm so glad you made this thread cause I was going to make one, and now I don't have to

My goal is to "feel" trust as well. Not just think it.

I'm am fairly new at understanding what it's like to be a 6. And I have just been suppressing my anxiety for so long now, that I am forced to face it.

I like what this site has to say. http://theenneagram.blogspot.com/2007/09/type-6.html

At the bottom in particular where is shows the cycles. I have never really had a huge sense of loyalty. It's very subjective. And I have a problem with that. How does one just be loyal, and know it's going to pay off? And how does one decide to just stop being loyal if the person hurts you? How far do good intentions go? sighs

Anyways I think loyalty has something to do with it, I guest that would mean trusting people and being optimistic,and thinking that people are doing their best...at least for me... I have started to see this also has to do with having an under-active Root chakra.

The world? Not so much. Maybe I should work in that.

Other people? Learned the hard way it is destructive not to. It impaired personal progress and proved to be counterproductive. If you think about it, others do things for a reason and with a few exceptions have pretty good intentions. On the other hand, past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior and some level of healthy skepticism is wise to have which I apply based on how important of a situation it is.

Myself? I would have given myself a better grade on this a few years ago not because I have changed but becauase I lacked some self awareness. Though I am generally pretty confident and can be assertive and hold strong views, I do question my intuition or thinking at times. In some ways it is good because I seek out other's perspectives and generate consensus but in other ways, I can waste time and water down my actions. Self awareness is probably the first step.

What's bolded usually happens to me. :/

e9 boyfriend is teaching me a lot about how to trust via optimism, not magnifying situations, and not jumping to worst case scenarios.

For example, we usually meet up in the evening (edit - I was writing this around 5 pm), but he hasn't contacted me back yet since early afternoon. My sx 6 impulse is to panic, try to track him down, send him a million messages, ruminate about where he is, and spend my evening waiting to hear from him. I know there is someone reading this now being like "this chick is crazy", but please understand that the emotion involved is not anger at him for being an independent being, but fear revolving around not knowing what's going on with him and if he's okay, along with the confusion of not being able to plan my night without his input, as I would prefer to spend it with him if possible - and we essentially have an unspoken agreement that we spend our nights together unless we specify otherwise.

I'm learning, though. I left him a voicemail and facebook message, in case his phone is dead or mine failed again like yesterday (it displayed my text to him 4 hours after I sent it). I've gone to the coffeehouse where we usually meet, gotten myself a drink I enjoy, and settled in to do some internetting. I'm going to go home soon and have dinner. I haven't driven to his house to hunt him down; I haven't blown up his phone; I've gone slightly out of my way to try to get up with him if he came here like usual, but I haven't deviated from doing things that are self-fulfilling because I feel anxious. My assumption is that he had a hard day, got some food, and fell asleep. He'll probably call me in a few hours when he wakes up, and we can go get some food together. Everything is going to be fine.

Trusting is weird. It's nice, though. It's like everything falls together in a way that works out just fine, when you just go about things as they arise. Though in typical 6 fashion, I am ready with my cascading sets of contingency plans if and when needed.


Edit - Speaking of, moments after writing this, he called me. Indeed, he fell asleep. We went and got food. We are still happy and in love. All is well.

This seriously is a perfect example.

This happens to me all the time...it's very hard to not let it bother me.

Do you find that being optimistic/realistic deals with the impulse and panic...like makes it dissapate ...or is it just suppressing the feelings? Cause I can't tell for me.

Hey. I'm not strictly e6, so I don't know if this helps you, but anyway.

Trust is a complicated issue. I rarely fully trust others, there are few people that are close to me. I really hate exposing myself, showing my vulnerability. It probably has much to do with fear of rejection combined with bad experiences. So I enclose myself with a kind of emotional shell, the "outer me", that doesn't have any real vulnerabilities, and I pretend that it's the real me. That way I can entrust much to others, but inside I'm always prepared for things to go wrong, and I'm reasonably safe when they do. Sometimes I send "probes" to check if a person can be trusted more, and if they fail, I immediately back away (without showing it) before any harm can be done. I'm working towards getting stronger inside, so that I need less and less of this outer shell, and maybe eventually discard it altogether (but I'm not sure if it's possible while still being human).

There's one more important thing. I believe that most people are well intentioned and will not deliberately harm others. So if someone knows me well enough, I usually trust them in that they'll do the best they can. I know that if they failed me somehow, they would feel at least equally as bad about it as I would.

I'm curious how that relates to how you e6 perceive trust. What are you afraid of the most when putting your trust in others?

Fear of abandonment. Which rejection plays its part in that...but it's like there is an "impending doom cloud" hovering over that says "something really bad will happen (maybe even death, depending on the person's inner voice) if you are abandoned." Which of course is not the case. But just because it's irrational doesn't mean its not there.

This is a really good example of coping well given the uncertainty of the situation. It's also, maybe, a common type six problem--worrying about others, what the hell is going on, and putting your life on standstill until you get some reassurance.

But you didn't. You continued pursuing satisfying activities even though your night could have been more than a little ruined. You took care of yourself. Maybe the act of taking care of yourself helped maintain a positive, even-keeled mood, which helped with your explanations for the situation: Instead of "That jerk; he's completely inconsiderate! Not telling me what he's doing! Doesn't he realize what stress this causes me?" you thought, "Eh. Probably fell asleep. He'll call me when he wakes up. It's fine. I'm enjoying myself anyway." You didn't totally depend on another person to have a good night, which made it easier to (a) not hold someone else responsible for your feelings and (b) not jump to untoward conclusions about his behavior or character.

Trusting is partly about learning to be more optimistic, yes. But I tend to think it's ultimately more about learning to take care of yourself. Trust in yourself and your ability to take good care of yourself is the basis, I think, for trust and intimacy with others. You trust yourself to still pursue satisfying activities even in the wake of uncertainty or someone's absence; you take a certain amount of responsibility for your feelings; you're good to yourself and take care of your needs, whether or not anyone else does. Given all that, it's a lot easier to trust people, although maybe it's just that you don't need to as much.

Yes, I agree learning to take care of yourself. Which also can include sticking up for yourself and being strong. And just in general feeling grounded. Getting security from yourself. Knowing that you have the right to be here and be yourself, and no one can take your right to be here away. We only do that ourselves.

You are right. What you said touches straight into the heart of the 6 core problem of looking outwards for security. Since I'm sx, I look first to my significant other, and I feel groundless when I can't know what's going on with him. So it really boils down to me trusting in my ability to provide my own security. I think one really good thing about the relationship for my enneatype is that it motivates me to want to be able to provide him with security, so I am forcing myself to learn to be more self-reliant.

I'm not sure if I know what you mean, when you say you want to provide him with security. I'm still learning.

Do 6's desire to do that...provide others with security...and by that do you mean providing him with a place of refuge almost?

 

[skylights]

Do you find that being optimistic/realistic deals with the impulse and panic...like makes it dissapate ...or is it just suppressing the feelings? Cause I can't tell for me.

Yes, I think it helps it dissipate... I think it helps me see that it is an illusion that I need to panic, and how I can achieve the same effectiveness (or more) if I don't panic. The challenge for me is to separate the "paths" in my mind, to go from a narrow-visioned worst-case-only panic to a realistic/optimistic viewpoint along with pragmatic contingency planning. With the example I gave, when I'm panicking, I keep expanding the worst-case possibilities, and it feels like all these awful things will happen if I don't resolve the situation right now.

If I can recognize that 6 process and step back to examine my thoughts, I can identify the danger-cue (him not contacting me), the potential danger (him being incapable of contacting me because of injury, illness, etc), and the most likely explanations for it - something I don't really do when I'm panicking. Then I can develop a realistic plan, based off of those likelihoods, with some easy immediate steps based on the most likely scenarios (eg the facebook/phone messages), some moderately-involved steps for later if I have to provide for the less-likely scenarios (eg driving to find him), and finally some serious resource-consuming, boundary-crossing steps (eg finding his roommate, calling his parents, alerting the police) based on the true worst case scenarios - and I can plan relative time cut-offs or other determining factors that I will use to decide when to move to the next level of effort.

That series of steps allows me to postpone the feeling of panic until I feel like it's more necessary - it's true that it's suspending it to a certain degree, but panicking is also a biological loop wherein stressful thoughts make you feel more stressed and then stressful feelings make you think more stressful thoughts, and so by stopping the stressful thoughts, you halt the biological stress loop. So it's both dissipation and suspension, but I'd hate to let it all dissipate in case I really needed it later! In other words, I don't think it's entirely possible to eradicate the fear in and of itself, but I don't think you really want to do that, anyway. I'd rather be on guard when it comes to him because it's one of my top priorities in life to keep him happy and safe.

I'm not sure if I know what you mean, when you say you want to provide him with security. I'm still learning.

Do 6's desire to do that...provide others with security...and by that do you mean providing him with a place of refuge almost?

I'm not sure about all 6s... I think my sexual-dominant instinct variant has a lot to do with my focus on our relationship. And yes, it's absolutely like providing him a place of refuge. I have a very strong sense of our relationship being a mutual haven for us - a sense of healing, home, happiness, relaxation, learning, growth, warmth, immersion, safety, stability, security, protection, desire, belonging, wanting, trust, understanding, sharing, intimacy, compassion, and so on. He's extremely self-sufficient, and it was hard for me to understand how to take care of him at first - it's still a little "mystical" to me, how I help him. Over time I've learned that a peaceful, comfortable retreat from problems and pressure is really meaningful to him - he's a 9w1 sp-dom. When you asked this, I thought of this scene from the Disney Atlantis movie:

I wish I could create that invisible bubble for him, like nothing can harm him. But since that would kind of infringe on his right to live independently, I try to at least surround him with love, and provide him with the understanding that I will be there if and when he wants me. I hope I'm doing the best I can do for him.

Ultimately I know that part of overcoming sx 6 is to acknowledge that I'm whole, complete, safe, and secure without my significant other (without anything besides myself, in fact), but it's tricky to reconcile that and the acknowledgment that I would like to weave my life with his, if he is willing, for the rest of my existence. I think that part of the key is focusing on being appreciative while he is around, instead of constantly trying to weed out the potential problems between us.

 

[King sns]

I'm getting a little better with this as I get older. I'm still very cynical about everything/ everyone but it's at a slightly tolerable level now... I think it's just about letting go. Decatastrophizing worst case scenarios. You can't really think your way out of this, just place less importance on whether or not something gains or loses your trust. Who cares if you trust (insert thing) at the end? You move on. This is difficult or impossible on situations where it's impossible to devalue the worst case scenario. (AKA worst case scenario is death or starvation if I do not remain cynical and untrusting.) For emotional losses etc. it really shouldn't be as big of a deal as we make it out to be.

In summary, don't work on trust, work on not caring about trust.

If I can keep an open mind and see the positives and negatives in all these situations, hopefully I can get a more realistic view of how trustworthy the world actually is rather than just how I perceive it to be. If that makes sense.

 

[gromit]

This is maybe a random thread for it, but what is phobic vs counter-phobic six?

 

[King sns]

This is maybe a random thread for it, but what is phobic vs counter-phobic six?

phobics give into the fears and anxieties and try to placate them and counterphobics question and rebel against what makes them anxious.

 

[gromit]

Are the counter-phobic more aggressive toward people? I am not sure I understand six that much. How does it manifest in this current thread topic?

 

[gromit]

I can't see how it's a good match for nine as claimed.

 

[skylights]

This is maybe a random thread for it, but what is phobic vs counter-phobic six?

It's basically a rephrasing of fight-versus-flight. A "phobic" ("phobos" meaning "fear") 6 tries to deal with their fear via flight - by hiding or running from the threat. A "counter-phobic" 6 tries to deal with fear via fight, by preemptively facing it out in the open.

Here's the old ocean-moonshine.net distinction description:

It is typically at a quite young age then, in response to the illegitimate or insensitive exercise of authority, that Sixes adopt their fundamental strategy for dealing with their underlying anxieties and for handling imbalanced power relationships. Some Sixes adopt a basically phobic approach. Phobic Sixes are generally compliant, affiliative and cooperative. They strive to avoid undue attention and to defuse tension by appearing to be "harmless." They thereby strive to avoid triggering aggression in others. Other Sixes adopt the opposite strategy of dealing with anxieties and become counterphobic, essentially taking a defiant stand against whomever or whatever they find threatening. This is the Six who takes on authority or who adopts a dare devil attitude towards physical danger. Counterphobic Sixes can be aggressive, and frequently adopt a rebellious or anti-authoritarian demeanor. Such Sixes are often unaware of the fear which motivates their actions. For counterphobic Sixes, the inner tension of living with their anxiety is greater than the fear of any external threat they might be facing, so they adopt an oppositional attitude and throw themselves into action. This approach sometimes succeeds in obscuring from the counterphobic Six's line of vision the fear which is actually at the root of their behavior. Consequently, counterphobic Sixes frequently deny being anxious. Interestingly, some phobic Sixes are also unaware of their underlying anxiety, an anxiety which is often readily apparent to others. Because anxiety serves as the backdrop to all their emotional states, some Sixes are unaware of its existence, as they have nothing with which to contrast it.

Most 6s react both ways, but I assume the phobic/cp distinctions caught on because the two ends of the spectrum present so differently. A phobic 6 could easily look like a 2 or 9, and a cp 6 generally looks like an 8. Personally, I tend away from the distinctions, because 6 thinking is 6 thinking, regardless of the resulting behavior.

Are the counter-phobic more aggressive toward people? I am not sure I understand six that much. How does it manifest in this current thread topic?

Yes, definitely, because they try to nip danger in the bud before it begins. The paradox is that this often creates conflict, because the "danger" is entirely in the 6's mind, and doesn't necessarily correlate to actual danger. So the 6 observes someone who's being sulky and grouchy, fears that the grumpy person will be cruel to them, illustrates that scenario in their mind, and creates this colorful interpretation of the grump as their enemy, and then aggressively confronts the grump to prevent the grump from catching them off guard later. So then this person who is already grumpy gets barked at by the 6, and in turn resents the 6 for seemingly randomly attacking - so the 6's fears are realized. The truth might just be that the "grump" pulled an all-nighter for school and is tired and hungry, and was no danger whatsoever to the 6, but the 6 created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So then in relation to this thread, 6s have to learn to trust because it stops us from accidentally creating these self-fulfilling prophecies and sabotaging ourselves.

I understand myself as a 6 somewhat in the frame of having grown up in a "battlefield", because I was fighting a very severe disease from birth through most of my early life. I was always "fighting", always on the defense, and I always had to guard myself against danger - I could have died, many times. Now I've overcome the medical condition enough to live a rather normal life, but I have a really hard time escaping that mindset of always scanning the battlefield for the next danger. My vision of the world is distorted because I don't trust that a crisis isn't looming right beyond the horizon. It's sad though, because I spend so much time thinking about how to keep myself alive that I don't spend living. Learning to trust changes that.

I can't see how it's a good match for nine as claimed.

It's good in my relationship because my SO simplifies and breaks down problems while I analyze and plan. He can help me not be afraid and to appreciate what I have during times of peace while I can help him prepare for and navigate during times of conflict. We share a desire to bond and belong, as well as a desire for comfort and stability. We're both ethical and hardworking, but really enjoy lots of relaxing together. Our relationship has been magnetic and fluid from the get-go, though not without a handful of major upturns. We have always shared trust between us so deeply that we don't bother wondering about the other. The positive match may have little to do with enneatype, but it works for us, either way.

 

[gromit]

Yes, definitely, because they try to nip danger in the bud before it begins. The paradox is that this often creates conflict, because the "danger" is entirely in the 6's mind, and doesn't necessarily correlate to actual danger. So the 6 observes someone who's being sulky and grouchy, fears that the grumpy person will be cruel to them, illustrates that scenario in their mind, and creates this colorful interpretation of the grump as their enemy, and then aggressively confronts the grump to prevent the grump from catching them off guard later. So then this person who is already grumpy gets barked at by the 6, and in turn resents the 6 for seemingly randomly attacking - so the 6's fears are realized. The truth might just be that the "grump" pulled an all-nighter for school and is tired and hungry, and was no danger whatsoever to the 6, but the 6 created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So then in relation to this thread, 6s have to learn to trust because it stops us from accidentally creating these self-fulfilling prophecies and sabotaging ourselves.

I think I have seen some six like this on the forums...

I understand myself as a 6 somewhat in the frame of having grown up in a "battlefield", because I was fighting a very severe disease from birth through most of my early life. I was always "fighting", always on the defense, and I always had to guard myself against danger - I could have died, many times. Now I've overcome the medical condition enough to live a rather normal life, but I have a really hard time escaping that mindset of always scanning the battlefield for the next danger. My vision of the world is distorted because I don't trust that a crisis isn't looming right beyond the horizon. It's sad though, because I spend so much time thinking about how to keep myself alive that I don't spend living. Learning to trust changes that.

Ugh. That is rough. Glad you are doing better now.

It's good in my relationship because my SO simplifies and breaks down problems while I analyze and plan. He can help me not be afraid and to appreciate what I have during times of peace while I can help him prepare for and navigate during times of conflict. We share a desire to bond and belong, as well as a desire for comfort and stability. We're both ethical and hardworking, but really enjoy lots of relaxing together. Our relationship has been magnetic and fluid from the get-go, though not without a handful of major upturns. We have always shared trust between us so deeply that we don't bother wondering about the other. The positive match may have little to do with enneatype, but it works for us, either way.

I meant how it's good for the nine.

 

[Randomnity]

Looking for thoughts and experiences from other E6's on how you've learned to trust. The world, other people, yourself. I attempt to rationalize or think myself through fear, but I sense this is just another mental loop somewhat disconnected from my emotions.

I want to feel trust, not just think it.

Ideas?

What is trust? I'm not sure it's a yes/no kind of thing. I don't really think about trust at all, but more in terms of expectations. I expect that person X will probably do things a certain way, and person Y will probably do them some other way. I don't tend to worry too much about people betraying me. I don't expect them to, but if they do I deal with it. e.g. in a relationship I have never worried about my partner cheating without huge red flag appearing.

I can't decide if I trust everyone or no-one or everyone to various degrees. I don't know if I really understand at a concrete level what trust means. Does anyone want to describe what it means for them?

 

[SilkRoad]

I need to work on my trust issues so at the moment I'm not sure what to post in this thread. I feel as though my problem is that I don't trust a lot of people, but in practice I tend to act as though I trust them anyway, because I feel it's the right thing to do, or I want them to prove me wrong, or something. If things then go wrong I feel lke I've been "proved right" in a depressing self-fulfilling way.

Re: counterphobic/phobic. I think it's a sliding scale. People have weird ideas about sixes. We're insanely aggressive, or we're in a constant state of terror. I have actually seen these things suggested or that 6 is innately a more unhealthy type than others. I think if you were totally at either extreme it would probably be very unhealthy, but most aren't. I would hope, anyway! But for myself I think of it as being a bit too forebearing/submissive some of the time and a bit too forthright at other times. That would really apply to me. I'm primarily phobic, I know that. But I can see counterphobic moments/traits in myself, too.


EDIT: 6s are generally very loyal (somewhat paradoxical) and although we over-analyze, I know for a fact that there are an enormous amount of people out there who analyze very little or not at all. I think this is partly where the 6/9 good relationship comes in. To be very simplistic about it, I imagine a 6 could help a 9 wake up/be a bit more alert and a 9 could help a 6 chill out a bit. Although the chilling out thing is strange. I posted a thread once about how I am laid-back but wound up at the same time. A lot of 6s posted in the thread and said they totally agreed. For myself at least, I feel as though there are loads of small things that don't get to me, in part because I just don't want to add the stress to my life. I don't care, or I'm ready to go with the flow. But when I care, I care extremely and almost obsessively, and depending what it is, I may become very anxious, too.

We're not all ticking time bombs ready to go off though, don't worry. 6 integrates to 9 when healthier and this would help explain why I debated between 6 and 9 for ages. I would like to think I'm reasonably healthy though I have lots of work to do

 

[citizen cane]

Trust is for chumps.

 

[Evo]

I need to work on my trust issues so at the moment I'm not sure what to post in this thread. I feel as though my problem is that I don't trust a lot of people, but in practice I tend to act as though I trust them anyway, because I feel it's the right thing to do, or I want them to prove me wrong, or something. If things then go wrong I feel lke I've been "proved right" in a depressing self-fulfilling way.

I'm primarily phobic, I know that. But I can see counterphobic moments/traits in myself, too.


EDIT: 6s are generally very loyal (somewhat paradoxical) and although we over-analyze

What you've said here is very similar for me. Especially the way you described trust. But can you explain the loyal part...and the somewhat paradoxical part too??

[MENTION=206]Randomnity[/MENTION] It feels like I trust no one. But I act like I trust people immediately. Actually when I get into a new relationship I trust right away and can get attached very quickly too.

I would say the definition of trust for me would be: waiting for my belief, that the other person will use their abilities to their fulfullment, to come true. <---So in other words hope.

This hope has not made it to faith yet though.

When the hope is reassured and shows signs that it wont dwindle down, that is when I trust someone.

I am not saying this is reality though....cause people really are doing the best they can at any given moment. lol

SO YES YOU ARE SOOO RIGHT! It's more like expectations!

And trust would lead to loyalty. Which I don't understand on a concrete level cause its subjective.

Example: one time my bf was debating with someone in the other room, and they came out an asked me to decide who was right. I didn't really agree with either of them. I said well it does a little of this AND a little of that. And my bf was really mad at me for not just agreeing with him even when the agreeing would have made me a liar.....<---in this way I am not loyal....that's why I have always had a problem with loyalty... Also it seems like a T vs. F thing

 

[SilkRoad]

What you've said here is very similar for me. Especially the way you described trust. But can you explain the loyal part...and the somewhat paradoxical part too??


[MENTION=206]Randomnity[/MENTION] It feels like I trust no one. But I act like I trust people immediately. Actually when I get into a new relationship I trust right away and can get attached very quickly too.

I would say the definition of trust for me would be: waiting for my belief, that the other person will use their abilities to their fulfullment, to come true. <---So in other words hope.

This hope has not made it to faith yet though.

When the hope is reassured and shows signs that it wont dwindle down, that is when I trust someone.

I am not saying this is reality though....cause people really are doing the best they can at any given moment. lol

SO YES YOU ARE SOOO RIGHT! It's more like expectations!

And trust would lead to loyalty. Which I don't understand on a concrete level cause its subjective.

Example: one time my bf was debating with someone in the other room, and they came out an asked me to decide who was right. I didn't really agree with either of them. I said well it does a little of this AND a little of that. And my bf was really mad at me for not just agreeing with him even when the agreeing would have made me a liar.....<---in this way I am not loyal....that's why I have always had a problem with loyalty... Also it seems like a T vs. F thing

A lot of what you just said resonated too

I think the "loyalty" thing is paradoxical because you wouldn't think that difficulties with trust would lead to loyalty. I also saw it said somewhere that 6s tend to be very loyal but are occasionally capable of "incredible acts of disloyalty". I suppose any human being is capable of that but I kind of knew what they meant. I certainly relate though to what you said about hoping that people will fulfill their potential (if that's what you meant), partly because of your belief, faith and trust in them. But also feeling that it's a bit unlikely that they will. Both at the same time.

In my case, I'm extremely loyal to friends/loved ones almost to the point of being a bit obsessive about them, sometimes. But if someone betrays my trust in what I feel is a manner really dangerous to myself, I am capable of dropping them almost coldly, completely cutting them out of my life. (This happens very very rarely, but it has happened.) And then I wonder if that's disloyal, too...