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Thread: Anger's Seduction

  1. #1
    hyggelig Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Aug 2008
    173 so/sx

    Default Anger's Seduction

    I'm posting this here, because it's a type 1 problem and I think others in the gut triad ought to understand or sympathize or have something to contribute to a conversation about it.

    I got to thinking about this while watching "Dexter" -- which figures. A lot of why that show resonates with me so much is how he struggles with his "need". This season, in particular, has him alternating between hating the need and wanting to get rid of it, and loving the need and everything it represents. So watching this season got me thinking a lot about my personal "need": anger.

    I'd like to think that I'm a conscientious and right-minded person. I take pride in everything you'd think an ESTJ 1 would take pride in: being reliable, intelligent, trustworthy, honest, grounded. But for every action there's an opposite reaction, and when you try so hard to be one thing, there's always a part of you that wants to rebel. For example: Dexter (again). I watch that show, I relate to all of his rationalizing, I see that there are holes in the justice system that could easily be filled with the right type of vigilante justice. But then I catch myself, I see that those thoughts don't exactly lead down the right path (religious term reference unintended), and I stop myself -- but it's the tension of almost thinking that way that keeps me watching.

    Similarly, I have a love/hate relationship with anger. Obviously, being a 1 (and a self-proclaimed "8 in chains"), it's natural that anger defines me, in a sense. Seeing things going wrong is what drives me, and things go wrong every day. My view on humanity and human nature is based almost entirely on jadedness and frustration with human imperfection. Anger is what led me to the career path (nonprofit work) that I'm currently seeking out. That all makes sense, and is not hard to deal with.

    The problem is: the anger I'm describing is a heavy stock boiling in a pressure cooker, and because it doesn't get let out -- and it is impossible to turn the temperature down -- I really, really want to let it out.

    I fantasize about it. Almost every favorite book/movie/character/etc in my life is some form of rage catharsis that I idolize and secretly want to be. On the one hand, my most common recurring dreams involve going insane and losing control -- but on the other hand, the characters that I love the most seem to have already lost control. Most of this is natural, yes, and even if I'm being dramatic about it, it's only human. But I think I have too much love for anger. I think it's sitting a bit too close to the door of its cage, and I worry that it's going to take the keys from the sleeping guard and let itself out. But what worries me the most is that I almost want that to happen. From my communication with other Ones on TypeC, this isn't a common focus -- and from my communication with people in real life, it's enough to make people a little concerned for you. So I've come to the conclusion that something needs to be done. Anger is trying to seduce me, and I need to resist.

    Fellow TypeC members: How much do you relate to this? Is it a problem that you've come to deal with successfully? What can be done to ease this? Can anything morally right take the place of this need that is morally wrong, without repressing it to the point of loving it even more? Do I find an outlet for it? Is that all that needs to be done?

    It's possible that I just wrote a wall of text that could be answered with "You're overblowing and dramatizing a small problem, this is natural and common, nothing can be done and you have to live with it" -- but I hope that isn't the case. I hope that this wall of text will help me reconcile all of this and will help people with similar thought processes to reconcile theirs in a similar fashion.
    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw or gryffindor (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #2
    Mr. Blue Array entropie's Avatar
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    Apr 2008
    3w2 so


    I have similiar anger management problems, whereas they stem from repressed emotions for me. In time I do not deal with emotions, but archive them rationally as "shit happens" and in time later on they come back and fuel frustrations about why are people so stupid.

    I've found in the course of my life that the best and sometimes only solution to deal with frustrations is to minimize contact to people around me and be more concerned with my projects and my family. This tho a way not everybody is cut out for.

    The main problem with anger is that it blinds you for nearly everything which would be reasonable for you right in that moment. And anger for me at least, always has a source. When I myself am balanced, not so much can shake me, then I become quite perfectionistic at leading my environment into a better and more efficient way of dealing with things.

    So my main sentence in all this would be: "before you can help others, learn to help yourself." Because I have found that an integral stability of your own selve, gives you the strength to convey that to the outside world.

    Maybe a partner in crime, a friend or a boyfriend, could help you work on that strong emotions and give you a valve to vent it ?
    Johari / Nohari

    "How dreadful!" cried Lord Henry. "I can stand brute force, but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect."
    ~ Oscar Wilde - The picture of Dorian Gray

  3. #3
    Interspecial Interpreter Array Amargith's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    4dw sx/so
    IEx None


    I dislike anger as an emotion. I disable it as soon as I can, if I can, which is about 80 percent of the time. While it has its uses, it consumes wayyyy too much energy, at least for me, to be used for long periods of time. If I am too tired to take care of it, then it can simmer for hours, draining me even more

    Usually though, I combat anger with understanding. Anger usually means that you care about something which is good, but it also means that you are somewhat stuck in your own perspective, imo, which I tend to be rather paranoid about. I try to understand the situation, how it came to be, what it is likely to progress towards and what control I have over this. I refuse to be angry at something I cannot help (and consequently Im often angry at myself for *NOT* doing something about the situation that I perfectly well can rectify), and understanding tends to get me further than storming at a wall like a mad person (pun intended). Anger also often hides other emotions and seems to be used especially by TJs to avoid admitting that they in fact feel sad, hopeless, powerless or afraid and insecure. Because it is an emotion that inspires action, it tends to be one that people who dislike feeling powerless go to as a default. And in that respect, it can definitely move mountains and get shit done...though the cost of that anger tends to be rather high for that person as well, imo. Learning to let go, and first understand the situation to see if something can be done is key to combatting it. If after careful scrutiny of the obtained information through understanding there *is* no way out, acceptance is preferred over mindnumbing, non-stop frustration which leads to anger outburst.

    With this all said though, I should get angry more often probably
    It would allow me to be less flexible and actually follow through on some issues, Im sure and rid myself of some of this soul-sucking apathy I occasionally experience.

  4. #4
    78% me Array Eruca's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    5w4 sx/sp


    If anger is such a great problem to you EJCC the advice above is good. However, isnt the issue here that your relationship with your anger is love-hate? You dont just want it gone, because it defines you, it provides you with a driving force. Perhaps a reason to live? This doesnt seem like a trait you should be, on the whole, hostile too. Emotion is the only motivator. Accept it as long as it motivates you to resultantly good action, and hold it back if it threatens a bad result.

    If your anger is too great over longer periods of time then take some steps to relieve it. Physical exercise, martial sports, punching a pillow, whip your partner during sex...anything!

  5. #5


    I quite like anger as an emotion. I see emotions as fuel, and expression as something that has value or not.

  6. #6
    Earth Exalted Array Thursday's Avatar
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    Mar 2008
    8w9 sp/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I quite like anger as an emotion. I see emotions as fuel, and expression as something that has value or not.
    Agreed. I use every emotion and I refuse to act on it unless it has been properly placed, but I'll never throw it away.
    I N V I C T U S

  7. #7
    You have a choice! Array 21%'s Avatar
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    May 2009


    I am almost never angry and the only time I am it's most likely I am hurt or feel neglected or threatened or something else -- never really 'angry'.

    What you said in the OP is very interesting. I am not familiar with Dexter, but from the little that I've heard he is taking justice into his own hands. I can identify a bit with this kind of 'righteous anger'. When I see something bad on the news I just feel extremely angry and I want to make things right, the bad guys punished and made to repent, the victims healed of the hurt, and the world will be a slightly better place. Sometimes I feel like it is society's fault, and I want to yell "Look what you have done! Why was there no one there to help when one of your members was in pain? How could you let this happen?", and it seems like the world lacks sympathy and maybe if everyone would just reach out a little bit more everything will be so much better. I am not sure if this is what you are talking about. I suspect that my take on it is a bit Fe-flavored, because ultimately I want a metaphorical global group-hug to make all the problems go away.

    That said, there was a period some time ago when I felt depressed and angry. I didn't know what I was angry at. I just felt overworked and completely exhausted and alienated from everything. Maybe I was just angry at my life situation at the moment, and I went on a movie-watching spree where I wanted stressful, violent movies -- very unlike my usual self. I especially wanted movies that dealt with "sticking it to the man" and "grace under fire". I wanted the characters' lives to be horrible, and I wanted them to face unfair situations, and I wanted them to be thrown into dilemmas, but most importantly was I wanted them to take a moral stand against all this. The urge for this kind of message lasted for only about a week, and after a lot of movies I felt purged of this emotion, and it has not returned since.

    I think as long as you don't completely lose control of yourself and fly into a blind rage when you are angry, it isn't anything to be too worried about. What has always helped me is to let the emotions come to you. Don't repress them. Feel them, and explore what exactly you feel and why. I think you have done quite a bit of exploring already and you are a little concerned when you realize your complex relationship with anger. I'd say keep exploring. Like what @Amargith said. Is this anger covering over other emotions? Are you afraid you would lose your moral convictions without it? What about it that you like? What about it that bothers you? And how can you express it in a positive way?
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  8. #8


    As a 4, I experience a wide variety of emotions. Anger is my least felt one until I start to integrate into 1-ishness. At that point, anger gets tangled up in a worrying of being evil for carrying out actions that I second-guess deep down in my 4-ish nature. This dilemma is always felt in hindsight and seems to be a rare form of the 4-ish longing for the past. Longing for the past creates a disconnect between my concept of my current identity and my past identity, which results in a compulsive re-creation of my idealized self. Being unwilling to see myself as an unchanging person seems to underscore the entire process of trying to embody a round peg in a square whole, so to speak. I suspect that a similar process unfolds in the 1-ish tendency to see the world as imperfect.

    Once, I decided to view myself as, more or less, nothing at all ( I suppose "literally insignificant" is a more apt description), and suddenly even simple tasks seemed to immediately reward me with a feeling of satisfaction. Maybe if you view the world as a blank slate, you would no longer feel guilt for changing it according to your standards?

  9. #9
    Away with the fairies Array Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
    4w5 so/sp


    I don't feel it as broadly as you seem to @EJCC, but I do understand the feeling - possibly because as a e4 my security point is e1. I know when I'm forced to confront frustrating circumstances repeatedly, I get filled with the same sort of anger and must struggle to contain it (working in retail incited intense rage in myself ). In such situations I found it impossible to calm down and let it go, and it just continued to build and build inside me. Human beings are so incredibly infuriating. I'm reminded of the Jean Paul Satre quote: "Hell is other people".

    I don't know what approach would be the healthiest to deal with it - like you say it's hard to know if it's best to repress or find an outlet. I remember hearing about Japanese Salary Men and the interesting ways they release their frustrations (other than karaoke and copious amounts of sake). The have these fully furnished rooms; with chairs, side tables, vases and lamps etc; and you pay a fee and get 15 minutes to go in with a baseball bat and smash the crap out of everything. I imagine it would be cathartic.

    BTW have you ever seen the movie Falling Down?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array tinker683's Avatar
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    Nov 2009
    9w1 sx/sp



    I relate to a great deal of what it is you said - maybe it's because I'm a One wing?

    Like you I have this churning....feeling....inside me most of the day. I wouldn't necessarily call it aggression (even if it feels similar) so much as I think it's more restlessness. It's like a general sense of discontentment, a constant feeling of needing to to move, almost like a shark. I can't sit on my laurels too long before I start to feel like I need to get up and fucking do SOMETHING!

    Most of the time I can channel this energy into something productive: I can use it to motivate myself out of apathy or force myself out of a box that I've managed to work myself into which I gotta say happens a lot more than I care to admit.

    Othertimes though it can be difficult to channel it and then it just starts to stew and boil and fester and thats where it can really turn into anger. The worst part is that because I'm quite sure just what it is I'm discontented about, I end up keeping it to myself as I don't know what to do with it, which invariably ends up causing it to contaminate every other aspect of my life in someway.

    I think this is why I find Taoism so appealing: It's stress on harmony and peace and accepting and adapting to things you can't change
    "There is no such thing as spare time, no such thing as down time, no such thing as free time, there is only life time. Go."
    ― Henry Rollins

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