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  1. #21
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Either you're not a 4, or you're a Social-first 4 (perhaps in a bit of denial ). Even then I would find it a little difficult to believe a 4 would not feel that need at all. I'm a 4w5 so/sp and I feel more of a push/pull effect - I want both to fit in and be special.

    But yeah, if you like you could look up some Social 4 descriptions - it's driven by a sense of shame about feeling different.

    Can I ask what on earth makes you think you're a 4, if you don't care at all about "uniqueness"? I don't want to sound flippant; it's just a little bizarre. That second post in particular is very un-4-like. I mean essentially what you're saying is true, but deep down inside, I can't help but unconsciously resist accepting that fact, if that makes sense. And I think that sort of mindset is central to the 4 enneatype.
    I appreciate the feedback. This is hard to write about clearly so I'll just say it: I embody uniqueness to such an extent that I don't have to strive for it. I am unique. I have always always been different and it has always been pointed out to me. When I read the descriptions about 4s wanting to be unique, I can't relate, because it implies that you don't know you are unique, if it's something you long for. I don't long for it because I am it. I can remember not knowing it, but I was very young -- it came to me in feedback pretty quickly to make me realize that I was different. It's not what I would have chosen; it's what happened as a natural course of me unselfconsciously being myself and then seeing how people react to that. I get told it often. It's not always a bad thing, either -- sometimes it's like "I have never met anyone as wonderful as you" in some way. But sometimes it is like "You are SO. WEIRD." My mother said this to me repeatedly last time she visited my house. I am weird even to my own mother. I am not trying to be different. I am just being myself.

    It hurts me in the heart a little to be called weird. It feels rejecting. I usually see things about the person who called me weird that I also think are weird, but I keep it to myself. Sometimes I feel like I have to really steel myself just to be able to stand my rightful ground. I wish it didn't have to be that way. It makes me feel isolated and it can make me feel inferior if I let it.
    Last edited by Tiltyred; 08-22-2012 at 02:17 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #22
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    my own infj mother is totally weird to me too! haha i tell her this frequently.

    maybe it doesn't always express itself as a want...maybe it's just more of an awareness...or a way of seeing yourself....a defining characteristic.

    because...i've been told i'm weird...i used to all the time. but...i don't see myself that way...and i don't think of it as a way to define myself. it just doesn't resonate with me as being important to who i am....possibly because i'm not that weird...or...possibly because i'm not a 4 and it's not something i pay attention to.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #23
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    4w5s are emotional skeptics. it's more of a feeling of fakeness that permeates everything. almost everyone else seems to agree on the value of things within rather narrow ranges, especially aesthetically, and these beliefs feel very hollow to 4s, who have to struggle for most of their lives continually trying on new beliefs and coming to terms with their lack of a definitively anchored self. this is especially acute in those 4s who have not stabilized their own adolescent coping strategies, that of being consumed by the desires and valuations of the other (via e2 projection), and who have not been able to balance self-other in distinct and separate ways, who can't listen to both sides fully, and who haven't developed the ability to give reasons (e1 integration point) and provide equanimity (rather than simply perceived originality and uniqueness discursively) in the face of real, sincere, not so demonizable others (both internally and externally).

    you can see why the point between 4 and 5 can be so nihilistic. to truly face the emotional complexity of existence, to try to bring equanimity to life as the highest form of compassion to ALL beings (because you are willing to truly identify with both them and yourself distinctly yet at the same time and feel the cleaving force that emerges, pulling you apart), without allowing one's own fears and/or those of others to overtake you amidst real threat and uncertainty.

  4. #24
    ISFJophile zelo1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It hurts me in the heart a little to be called weird. It feels rejecting
    It is understandable to feel it as rejecting. 'Weird', to you, is presumably a clear pejorative term for 'different'. The people calling you weird however may not see it that way and therefore would have no idea you were offended. You do well not to fight back in kind. Me? I would regard it as a compliment even though I know it was not intended that way if said by an acquaintance. If said by someone I respected I *could* be devastated and my Ti would have some serious damage control to take care of.
    Cognitive functions:
    Fi (95%); Ti (90%); Ne (75%); Fe (60%); Ni (50%); Si (50%); Te (15%); Se (5%)

    "INFP values but INTP skills" describes me best of all

  5. #25
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    ^^ oh yeah right damn...i never mean that as an insult.

    you reminded me tho that my type 4 bf also doesn't like to be called that...i don't get it. he is weird. why's it matter to say it?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #26
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I really want to be unique, and in that particular way, I am completely conventional.

    I have figured this part out - the more alone we feel, the more connected we actually are to humanity. Although, at this point in my life I am not lonely, and it feels pretty funny.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #27
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I appreciate the feedback. This is hard to write about clearly so I'll just say it: I embody uniqueness to such an extent that I don't have to strive for it. I am unique. I have always always been different and it has always been pointed out to me. When I read the descriptions about 4s wanting to be unique, I can't relate, because it implies that you don't know you are unique, if it's something you long for. I don't long for it because I am it. I can remember not knowing it, but I was very young -- it came to me in feedback pretty quickly to make me realize that I was different. It's not what I would have chosen; it's what happened as a natural course of me unselfconsciously being myself and then seeing how people react to that. I get told it often. It's not always a bad thing, either -- sometimes it's like "I have never met anyone as wonderful as you" in some way. But sometimes it is like "You are SO. WEIRD." My mother said this to me repeatedly last time she visited my house. I am weird even to my own mother. I am not trying to be different. I am just being myself.

    It hurts me in the heart a little to be called weird. It feels rejecting. I usually see things about the person who called me weird that I also think are weird, but I keep it to myself. Sometimes I feel like I have to really steel myself just to be able to stand my rightful ground. I wish it didn't have to be that way. It makes me feel isolated and it can make me feel inferior if I let it.
    Interesting. A lot of what you say is similar to my own experience. I hate being weird and being made to feel self-conscious too. But to be perfectly honest, my weirdness is something I also take pride in (yes, I know how pathetic that sounds ).

    The thing is with 4s, it's not just that they are "unique", as if it's just a matter-of-fact truth they have to get used to; they want to be "unique" too. They (secretly) relish their difference, even if it's the negative kind. So you see, it's not just a personal quality that is thrust upon them, to some degree it's also a pursuit. Deep down, all 4s fear being normal.

    If this isn't something you relate to then perhaps you aren't a 4 - that is, unless you are really suppressing a underlying desire to be special, and aren't conscious of it. But then this also wouldn't be very 4-like, because we tend to be so concious of, and relatively honest with, our feelings. Your sense of difference suggests 4-ness is a part of you, but maybe it isn't your primary type.

    Do you feel innately "defective"? By that I mean: do you believe that people think you're weird, not just because they fail to understand you, but ultimately because there is something wrong with you underneath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    You might just have a really strong 5 wing, or may even be 5 instead. It’s more a 5 thing to actually feel like an alien, like there’s an ‘uniqueness’ (or a feeling of being different) that’s already there and there’s even a preoccupation of compensating for it rather than striving for it.

    At any rate, I totally relate to the quoted text above. Sometimes too I wonder if being least so variant exacerbates it, like my underlying drive to fit into a bigger group is so atrophied that- while I don't mind the immediate consequences- a long term consequence (I think) is generally feeling even more like a fish out of water than I already do.
    Actually, now that you say that, she could be a 5w4. After all the type is known as the iconoclast, and this could explain the sense of feeling different and not understood but still being happy and secure in who you are. The way she talks about uniqueness also sounds like the sort of thing my 5w4 friend would say.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Could also be some Fe involved here as well, wanting said uniqueness to be accepted by the group. I already feel somehow outside of the circle, but I desire to have the unusual traits and interests embraced by the group. But at the same time, I recognize that everyone is unique in their own way, so it isn't just me.
    Yes, that did cross my mind too.

    And I still think the Social instinct might be contributing on top of all this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    my infp bf is a type 4 so first and i don't think he wants to be unique. same push/pull thing there. like being hyper aware of where he is in relation to other people. feeling he doesn't measure up in this way or that.

    i don't get it...i tell him why do do you care?? if you valued such n such you'd likely be such n such way...so...you don't really want to be that way...it's a whole weird twisty mindfuck thing that seems ridiculously frustrating to be concerned about.
    Oh, don't try to rationalise it my friend. I know it's totally ridiculous but it can't be helped. All I can tell you is that it feels like failure to not be special in some way. It's like being told when you're young that you have great promise, that will be something extraordinary, and then you end up working at McDonalds - except we told ourselves that.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #28
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Do you feel innately "defective"? By that I mean: do you believe that people think you're weird, not just because they fail to understand you, but ultimately because there is something wrong with you underneath?
    Yes.

  9. #29
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    This irks me no end, this emphasis on wanting to be unique, different, and special. I don't want that. I would like to fit in! Other people tell me I am unique, different and special. Or, as they say on the playground, WEIRD. Any other 4s like this, or I am just unique in this ... oh wait a minute ... oh damn, srsly? ... reality check: am I unique because I don't want to be unique? bwahaha, what a Special Snowflake, quel rich irony.

    No, seriously. Anyone?
    you sound like me, perhaps you're actually a 9. I thought i was a 4w5 for the longest time, than i realized it didn't fit me at all. I never wanted to be different, but people call me unique and weird. I like fitting in, even though I rarely do. I'm 89% sure i'm a 9w1 sx/sp/so
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  10. #30
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I don't lead with 9, but it's definitely part of my tri-type.

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