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  1. #21
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Could you cite the sources for these? I need to eat them up, I love them so.
    Crap, I forgot to put the link in there. How silly of me.

    Here you go.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #22
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    *Warning: may be mistyped*

    Fear isn't something I strongly relate to. If I were asked what my greatest fear is, I would have to take some time to think about it because not much comes to mind, as there aren't many things I genuinely fear, as far as I'm aware. Anxiety, on the other hand, is a different story. When I say anxiety, I'm referring to an emotion which does not necessarily have an object as fear does. Anyways, I can't even remember the last time I didn't feel anxious on some level. I don't notice it all the time, but it's always there. I don't even know what it's like to not feel anxious.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    If you're a 6, how much fear do you really feel? Do you think feel you're essentially a mouse? Even if you're in a lion costume?
    For the record, I don't know if I'd call it fear, but rather adrenaline. Or maybe that's supposed to be counter-phobic. Maybe there isn't much difference between the two.

  4. #24
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Thinking about this topic again, yes I am afraid.

    I try to turn it into a propelling force to be overcome and confronted. However more often that is only a visualisation, my reality consists of me sitting in the dark, the embodiment of the human condition, scared to even step over the threshold.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #25
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    If you're a 6, how much fear do you really feel? Do you think feel you're essentially a mouse? Even if you're in a lion costume?
    I don't consider myself fearful. I'm alert and prepared for contingencies. When something stressful is happening, a voice inside may warn me of the worst possible outcome. I'm simply smart enough to know better than to accept that as a likelihood, even if I do take it into account in my response to the stress.

  6. #26
    Member Hecuba's Avatar
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    Yes, this is something I can myself relate too. I always fear any possible outcomes in concerns to myself, family or friends.

  7. #27
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    In my business experience with a lot of 6's (I don't know their level of health) I would rebrand their "fear" as "unproductive thought". As an 8, I more or less get a cocaine high when I make progress and see the possibility of wealth looming ever closer. The closer it gets, the harder I push, the less I eat. Meanwhile, my business E6 partner is completely slowing us down while me and a 3w2 ENFJ have the afterburners and throttle set to full.

    for example:
    me: I'm gonna go to the abandoned property forum and see if I can take some people's abandoned financial accounts.
    6: but think of all the other people who are doing the same thing!
    me: what good does that do me?
    6: uh... not much I guess

    Also, one of my business partners is a 6. He wrote the entire business plan by himself and planned to run the business completely on his own. The gym would have him and his wife in it, one of his trusted friends, and that's it. I worked for a 6, it was the same exact thing. Too scared to let the grass grow for fear of getting clipped. The 6's in my life don't seem to know how to control or set boundaries for their employees, or make a system that works. This could be lack of experience, or even because they all lack Ti. In business, you can't trust anyone, but you can trust the system you set in place. Meanwhile, I have 8 other subcontractors included in the revised business plan with an infrastructure that insures its in their best intrinsic interest to stay loyal to me. because, despite what we like to believe, success doesn't come at the hands of individuals.

    another example:
    me: send me your business plan if you want my money.
    6: well, that actually makes me a little nervous. I put a lot of time and effort into this.
    me: do you want my money or not?
    6: *generic ingratiation, still doesn't give me business plan*
    me: I'm going to make a business plan without your help, so you might as well hop on now or miss the train.
    6: *sends business plan*

    I wouldn't label them as scared, but their thinking is unproductive when we're trying to make progress. The guy wouldn't give me, the primary investor, his business plan. So I told him, "fine. I'm going to make one without you." Then he gave me his business plan and everything is peachy. But I recognize it by a sort of doubt, he runs up ahead, freezes, turns back, freezes, runs forward again, freezes... Its just indecision at its worst. And his method of compensating for his lack of confidence in his own (rather genius) business idea, was to plan the shit out of everything, down to the last penny.

    So the good news is, we have an awesome business idea.

    the bad news is, this guy is one of our close friends, and wants to be included, but isn't willing to put forth the risk or tell us how he intends on making that happen. I don't even think he's willing to tell us what he wants out of this, we're supposed to just assume it for him out of the goodness of our hearts. I think the issue is he has a complete lack of self assertion in all of our business meetings.

    Another 6 story, my boss when I worked as a painter, would tell us he bought us pizza for lunch so we wouldn't have to think about what we'll eat that day. I said thanks, gave him the pizza he ordered, and went to my car and ate the lunch I already packed. haha. In a less positive sense, the fucking retard was a "bull rider" and was pissed at me because he was paying me $2.50 more per hour than everyone else, and that was somehow my fault for asserting this pay in the interview.

    Anyway, the point is, in my experience, 6's need to realize what thoughts are unproductive, and what are. Brainstorming everything that could actually go wrong, productive. Not taking action because... they just don't feel good about it... unproductive. By all means, take safety precautions, have me sign an NDA or non-competition clause. But past that there is no excuse for inaction.

  8. #28
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    I don't think it's fear as a tangible feeling, but instead fear as a primary motivator. More a sense of general anxiety, like Orangey explained.

    I'm not "fearful", but I tend to overreact to things because of fear. I tend to immediately jump on things that feel threatening and seek to fix them. I wouldn't call myself CP in the sense that I don't pre-emptively attack, but I do prepare, and I pounce immediately upon feeling threatened. I'm still working on learning that sometimes sitting patiently and waiting is better, as everything tends to work out regardless.

    In feedback I've gotten at work, people have expressed how I jump on things. It can be good, in terms of stomping out problems, but it can also seem sudden, intense, and somewhat unnecessary. I also can be incredibly ruminative and it can seem useless and obsessive to others, as well as unpleasant because I'm not free to engage in other things when I'm ruminating.

    On the bright side, I research like there is no tomorrow, and when the time comes for me to jump into whatever I'm considering doing, I'm usually very well-prepared for the reality of it. It can be a huge asset in partnership with someone who is more optimistic, because then we have both a sense of hope and excitement and realistic preparation.


    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I would rebrand their "fear" as "unproductive thought".
    Yes, true.

    Also, one of my business partners is a 6. He wrote the entire business plan by himself and planned to run the business completely on his own. [...] 6: well, that actually makes me a little nervous. I put a lot of time and effort into this
    The way you speak of it, I would hold back, too. If you want a 6 to trust you, you're better off demonstrating why they should than threatening them into it. The more information you can provide them with ensuring you're the right choice, the more smoothly things will go. Demonstrate past success, current research, future plans, reasons you as a person can be trusted, etc. 6s aren't stubborn for no reason; we're stubborn because we're excellent at seeing how things could go wrong. The more you give answers to why things won't go wrong, the more willing we will be.

    Another 6 story, my boss when I worked as a painter, would tell us he bought us pizza for lunch so we wouldn't have to think about what we'll eat that day. I said thanks, gave him the pizza he ordered, and went to my car and ate the lunch I already packed. haha.
    This is the second time you've mentioned this anecdote on the forum. I find it interesting, because to me it just seems like a simple demonstration of good will, and not really a big deal or worth bringing up, but it clearly struck a chord with you. Why? It feels like forced and unhelpful "helpfulness" from someone you don't like?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    This is the second time you've mentioned this anecdote on the forum. I find it interesting, because to me it just seems like a simple demonstration of good will, and not really a big deal or worth bringing up, but it clearly struck a chord with you. Why? It feels like forced and unhelpful "helpfulness" from someone you don't like?
    It stuck in my mind because it was the most obvious form of E6 projection anxiety I've encountered, so I use it as my quintessential example.

  10. #30
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    It stuck in my mind because it was the most obvious form of E6 projection anxiety I've encountered, so I use it as my quintessential example.
    Ah. Interesting. I guess I tend to do that caretaking stuff too but mostly for my really close family members and my SO. I'd feel sort of weird doing it to coworkers.

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