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  1. #21
    Senior Member EntangledLight's Avatar
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    i think it would hurt, but it's not something that i actually contemplate that often so i don't think it's one of my deeper rooted fears. (are you a Sx or So first?)

    what really scares/worries me is something larger than myself such as a school of thought, law enforcement agency, corporation, etc., doing something that i find terrible to a person that i care about (or anyone really) and lacking any means to retaliate/fix the problem without screwing myself and others over in the process due to the poor thinking of others (see school of thought), or to a broken system.

    edit: that sort of predicament is probably closer to my core. the thought of it gets my blood pressure going because at the point, you either have to bite your tongue and just let other's take advantage of your loved ones, or, you say "to hell with it" and go Rambo on those motha fuckas.

  2. #22
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EntangledLight View Post
    i think it would hurt, but it's not something that i actually contemplate that often so i don't think it's one of my deeper rooted fears. (are you a Sx or So first?)

    what really scares/worries me is something larger than myself such as a school of thought, law enforcement agency, corporation, etc., doing something that i find terrible to a person that i care about (or anyone really) and lacking any means to retaliate/fix the problem without screwing myself and others over in the process due to the poor thinking of others (see school of thought), or to a broken system.

    edit: that sort of predicament is probably closer to my core. the thought of it gets my blood pressure going because at the point, you either have to bite your tongue and just let other's take advantage of your loved ones, or, you say "to hell with it" and go Rambo on those motha fuckas.
    Yeeeah fuck da police!
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  3. #23
    Senior Member EntangledLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yeeeah fuck da police!
    lol, that can be one avenue.

  4. #24
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It is said that 6s primary area of vulnerability is, "being betrayed and caught offguard."(From "Nine Lenses of the World"). Fellow 6s, do you think this is true? Has it happened to you?
    I'm not a 6 but I'm finding that I strongly identify with alot of the stuff in the type 6 threads. I am open to the possibility that I may be a type 6.

    That said, I don't think fear of betrayal or being caught off guard is necessarily limited to type 6. I think just about any type would find being betrayed unpleasant. Who wants to be betrayed? I can't think of anyone that would. Now the not wanting to be caught off guard aspect, that might be more type related. I can definitely see how this would fit type 6 but I could also see other types disliking this as well. Type 1, especially when they have a plan for how things should go and then something thwarts that plan. Type 5, especially when they are put in situations where they are expected to act without having enough time to think things through. Other types, like 7's might relish surprises and enjoy the quick thinking on their feet.

    I don't think I've ever experienced true betrayal but if I did, I'd probably be devastated by it. I really hate being caught off guard for the reason I give for type 5's.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Hmm... I think I'm a 6, but that doesn't quite sound like one of my primary fears. I do fear all the betrayal and deception that can be amalgamated into the blanket phrase "out there", I guess, but I fear more either a) losing someone close to me or, more often, b) everything crashing down and leaving me lost and confused. Maybe I really am a 9?
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  6. #26
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Anyhow, I think betrayal hurts the 6 so much because we already have a hard time trusting.. ourselves and others. When someone very close does this it is not only a let down, it causes us to question our own judgement in the future.
    I think it's this, absolutely. A concept that I struggle with is not having a decent grip on reality. I am such a big-picture person that it really shakes me when I learn that my picture is much smaller than I thought. So, for instance, when I learn that I have been acting on the premise x and learn that it was actually y, then I have to completely recalculate the morality of my actions and figure out where to go from there. This is one of the reasons I am so hesitant to act - I am not confident I have a good enough picture to be able to accurately gauge the result of my actions. Betrayal would fit in as a part of that, tinged even worse because it carries the connotation of personal trust. That said, there are other things that worry me more. Never making anything of myself is one of them. It's just that this 6 fear holds me back from acting to be able to achieve...

    Maybe that's why it's called a primary vulnerability. It's a weakness that can forestall moving forward in all other areas of life.

  7. #27
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
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    I find it to be relatively true. Then again, I have a paranoid streak that's a mile wide.
    I think that lower-functioning (I believe that's correct ennea-speak) 6s can have issues with paranoid delusions in social situations, or at least be prone to that sort of unhealthy behavior. At least I read that on one enneagram website, and it sounded fairly similar to me.
    I know that I'm afraid to trust people. I also know that my few close friends will attest to how much of a challenge it was to get me to come around, so if this is actually typical six vulnerability, then I'm something of a posterchild for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    So, for instance, when I learn that I have been acting on the premise x and learn that it was actually y, then I have to completely recalculate the morality of my actions and figure out where to go from there. This is one of the reasons I am so hesitant to act - I am not confident I have a good enough picture to be able to accurately gauge the result of my actions. Betrayal would fit in as a part of that, tinged even worse because it carries the connotation of personal trust.
    This sounds like an ENFP-flavored version of what I experience as an INTJ 6... Usually I'm quick to jump to negative conclusions and then learn later that a motive I thought was malevolent was actually quite benign. And then comes the embarrassment.

    Hopefully some of that made sense. I'm a bit loopy from my run at the moment.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quay View Post
    I react poorly when I feel I'm betrayed. I become very defensive, even with those who have done nothing to me.
    It's interesting - I recently asked someone about this topic. My 6 had a traumatic experience with betrayal before me, and since coming together, has always seemed to hold back and regularly "test" me, even though it's been years and he says he picked me specifically because he knows I am trustworthy. It's gotten better over the years, but is still very much there. I'm trying to tease out how much of it is just being a 6, and how much of it was experience from the betrayal, and whether it will ever reach a point where he will relax and feel at peace.

    I'd welcome any thoughts from any 6s.

  9. #29
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    It's interesting - I recently asked someone about this topic. My 6 had a traumatic experience with betrayal before me, and since coming together, has always seemed to hold back and regularly "test" me, even though it's been years and he says he picked me specifically because he knows I am trustworthy. It's gotten better over the years, but is still very much there. I'm trying to tease out how much of it is just being a 6, and how much of it was experience from the betrayal, and whether it will ever reach a point where he will relax and feel at peace.

    I'd welcome any thoughts from any 6s.
    I think it is probably the betrayal.

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think it is probably the betrayal.
    Could very well be. It's probably not either/or, but rather how the betrayal influenced and made an impression on him as a 6. Just trying to get some perspective and insight, given he continually and genuinely gives me the message that he trusts me more than anyone else in the world, yet seems to still never quite reach a point of total relaxation. It would be nice to know if I could be doing something I'm not already doing that would help.

    I found this today and the bolded is definitely in line with my experience.

    6w7 - Seeking Security and Stimulation

    Sixes with a 7 wing are generally outgoing and may appear more overtly nervous. More plainly want to be liked and will pursue others in contrast to 5 wing who pulls in. Can be charming, sociable, ingratiating. Have a faster tempo, stronger connection to 3. Often self-preservation subtypes, characterized by a personal warmth. Can have a cheerful, forward-looking drive and be disarmingly funny. Self-effacing, gracious and curious. When more entranced, may be self-contradicting and seem as if they want two things at once. Sometimes test others overtly, drive you crazy with mixed messages. It may be hard to follow what they're saying. When threatened, one defense is to become impossible to please. When counterphobic, they tend to be accusative. Some get caught up in big plans that they hope will result in material security. Also can be insecure, irritable, petty, irrational, chaotic. Subject to mood swings, inferiority complexes, runaway fears. May have hair-trigger flare-ups of paranoia. Falsely accuse others and then seem not to realize it. Other times they plead to be taken care of. Sometimes defensively conservative in their lifestyle. Some struggle with appetite.

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