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  1. #1
    Member khys's Avatar
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    Default Type 5's + introverted perceiving functions

    I've been doing a lot of study on how the anxiety of the Type 5 plays out with the introverted perceiving functions.

    I use Ni, so that's the one I'm familiar with.

    Those of you 5s who have Si in your functions, how does your anxiety manifest?
    How does Si combine with your judging functions? Are you introverted or extroverted?

    If you have an extroverted judging function, how different are you from the paragraph below?

    (From Riso's "using the enneagram for self-discovery")

    The basis of their orientation to the world is thinking; personality type 5 corresponds to Jung's introverted thinking type:

    Introverted thinking is primarily oriented by the subjective factor...It does not lead from concrete experience back again to the object, but always to the subjective content. External facts are not the aim and origin of this thinking, though the introvert would often like to make his thinking appear so. It begins with the subject and leads back to the subject, far though it may range into the realm of actual reality...Facts are collected as evidence for a theory, never for their own sake. (C.G. Jung)

    Although they correspond to Jung's introverted thinking type, Fives are perhaps more precisely characterized as a subjective thinking type because the aim of their thought is not introverted (that is, directed toward themselves); rather, it is directed outward toward the environment, which Fives want to understand for defensive purposes. The impetus for their thinking comes, as Jung says, from "the subjective factor," from their need to know about what lies outside themselves, as well as from their anxiety when they do not understand the environment. This is why thinking is the method Fives use to both to fit into the world, and paradoxically, to defend themselves against it.

    One of the results of the way Fives think is that even healthy Fives are not very deeply rooted in experience. They are the type of people who get a great deal of intellectual mileage out of very little experience because they always find something of significance where others see little or nothing. This may lead to great discoveries. However, when they stop observing the world and focus their attention on their interpretations of it, Fives begin to lose touch with reality. Instead of keeping an open mind while they observe the world, they become too involved with their own thoughts. Whatever does not agree with their ideas is simply not perceived or is rejected, which serious consequences for themselves.


    **disclaimer...there's a pack of 6 yr old boys having a sleepover at my house. if this is disjointed and hard to make sense of, it's because of all the explosion/machine gun/sword noises.
    Last edited by Patches; 07-06-2012 at 05:22 AM.

  2. #2
    Bunnies & Rainbow Socks Kayness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khys View Post
    One of the results of the way Fives think is that even healthy Fives are not very deeply rooted in experience. They are the type of people who get a great deal of intellectual mileage out of very little experience because they always find something of significance where others see little or nothing. This may lead to great discoveries. However, when they stop observing the world and focus their attention on their interpretations of it, Fives begin to lose touch with reality. Instead of keeping an open mind while they observe the world, they become too involved with their own thoughts. Whatever does not agree with their ideas is simply not perceived or is rejected, which serious consequences for themselves.
    This sounds rather INTJish, especially in the last paragraph.

    It also seems to conflict directly with Si, esp Si doms, and I know that ISTJ 5s are not that uncommon, so it'd be great to hear how those two reconcile.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayness View Post
    This sounds rather INTJish, especially in the last paragraph.
    I agree. It reads very much like home. I have always found it surprising that there can be people who read so much and understand so little, while even the very opposite is possible.

  4. #4
    I'm not Trunks
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    I don't really have knowledge at enneagram and their function. All I know I'm introvert and J type..nice info

  5. #5
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khys View Post
    If you have an extroverted judging function, how different are you from the paragraph below?
    I’m not entirely sure I know what you’re asking in the op- but it sounds like, because the description specifically mentions ‘introverted thinking’, you’re wondering how it’s different where the thinking function is extraverted (or maybe just where Je is ranked higher than Ji in the supposed function order)?

    I think this absolutely still applies:


    Although they correspond to Jung's introverted thinking type, Fives are perhaps more precisely characterized as a subjective thinking type because the aim of their thought is not introverted (that is, directed toward themselves); rather, it is directed outward toward the environment, which Fives want to understand for defensive purposes. The impetus for their thinking comes, as Jung says, from "the subjective factor," from their need to know about what lies outside themselves, as well as from their anxiety when they do not understand the environment. This is why thinking is the method Fives use to both to fit into the world, and paradoxically, to defend themselves against it.




    There’s a strong need to feel like the product of my assessment/understanding of shared reality matches actual (‘objective’) shared reality enough to function/interact with the world without problems- in spite of arriving at this assessment/understanding primarily through introverted/subjective means. Pi/Je is necessarily going to have a slightly different focus/goal than Ji/Pe- Ji/Pe focuses more on understanding the immediate external world, where Pi/Je’s focus is more past/present/future oriented- but the way “understand” is used in the above quote doesn’t apply more to judgment (specifically, T) than it does to perception, imo, it’s about the sum total of ‘the subjective factor’ in the whole ‘understanding’ process (when it comes down to it, to ‘understand’ requires both judgment AND perception because you can’t judge anything where there’s nothing to judge).
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  6. #6
    Senior Member EntangledLight's Avatar
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    i'm not a 5, but a 6w5. and since this has to do with anxiety and Pi for the most part...

    my anxiety is tied to just being aware of what "will come up". not in a "oh god, but think of everything that could happen" sort of way, but more in the "this is how things are, and these things are not only probable but i know for a fact that if i don't do something to alter the course then it will most likely happen"...

    it has more to do with with awareness itself. if i could push everything out of my mind, then i wouldn't be aware and the compulsion to prevent wouldn't exist. so the situation itself is usually downplayed significantly; that is, the reality of it is only necessary so long as it aids prevention (outer information), and the focus is taken off of the situation itself once it has presented itself as such. this means that when i'm stressed, anything that fits some sort of formula (A is present and B is present, C will come about) is immediately seized and the gravity is, once again, no longer an issue--so it's the pattern that my mind obsesses over... this is frustrating because anything in the world will fit something that vague, actual problems and meaningless fodder, and it becomes a "well, why not try to change the outcome?" complex.

    so, the anxiety is placed on being aware, constantly reminding myself of how to navigate, and less on the core of the problem; the "shell" or schema the information fits into and not the information.

    Ni by the way (i believe).

    edit: i was rereading my post and it makes it seem like i'm psychic with the whole "altering of courses". what i mean is basic common sense, but i think since i am whatever type i am, i focus on, like i said, the schema that it will fit into.

    plus, sometimes it's just the knowledge that say, there's chips downstairs and i'd like to get some--well, until i go get them, i'll just keep reminding myself to get the chips (and even that can make me antsy)... so it can also work as a motivator... :P

  7. #7
    Member khys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I’m not entirely sure I know what you’re asking in the op- but it sounds like, because the description specifically mentions ‘introverted thinking’, you’re wondering how it’s different where the thinking function is extraverted (or maybe just where Je is ranked higher than Ji in the supposed function order)?

    I think this absolutely still applies:


    Although they correspond to Jung's introverted thinking type, Fives are perhaps more precisely characterized as a subjective thinking type because the aim of their thought is not introverted (that is, directed toward themselves); rather, it is directed outward toward the environment, which Fives want to understand for defensive purposes. The impetus for their thinking comes, as Jung says, from "the subjective factor," from their need to know about what lies outside themselves, as well as from their anxiety when they do not understand the environment. This is why thinking is the method Fives use to both to fit into the world, and paradoxically, to defend themselves against it.




    There’s a strong need to feel like the product of my assessment/understanding of shared reality matches actual (‘objective’) shared reality enough to function/interact with the world without problems- in spite of arriving at this assessment/understanding primarily through introverted/subjective means. Pi/Je is necessarily going to have a slightly different focus/goal than Ji/Pe- Ji/Pe focuses more on understanding the immediate external world, where Pi/Je’s focus is more past/present/future oriented- but the way “understand” is used in the above quote doesn’t apply more to judgment (specifically, T) than it does to perception, imo, it’s about the sum total of ‘the subjective factor’ in the whole ‘understanding’ process (when it comes down to it, to ‘understand’ requires both judgment AND perception because you can’t judge anything where there’s nothing to judge).
    Yes. the article really focuses on introverted styles, and i'm curious about extroverted styles. I would be interested in the differences of an ENTJ 5, for example.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khys View Post
    I would be interested in the differences of an ENTJ 5, for example.
    Has such a thing achieved existence yet?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Has such a thing achieved existence yet?
    Well, we might be able to fit a horse in a lunchbox if we puree the horse first. So why not?

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