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  1. #61
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    Oh...certainly. I hardly think that Hitler was a healthy 4 though. I read a biography a while ago, but I'm mostly referring to this documentary.
    I imagine he was only at an average level of health. Unhealthy 4s tend to implode.

    At 41:20, renowned political profiler, Jerrold Post, suggests that Hitler created a grandiose facade to compensate for his lack of self-contentment. He seemed more concerned about his legacy and image as a savior than the wellbeing of Germany.

    [snip]

    More evidence that Hitler was probably a very unhealthy 4 sx, regarding his unrequited infatuation with Stefanie Rabatsch:
    Thanks for the posts! I agree, the Stephanie Incident is pure 4.

    ^ Interesting to note that he hated the military prior to serving and becoming a dictator.
    His hatred towards literally everything as a young man is kind of what turns me towards sx4, actually. It was like he just had this vengeance against everything he could never have/be/do.

  2. #62
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    You know, the first time I heard that Hitler could be a 4, I thought it was the most batshit stupid, insane thing I'd ever heard. But after becoming more familiar with sx-4s and figuring out I was a 4, I think it's a very real possibility. Frankly, at this point, I'm not sure what else he'd have been.
    Well, he's frequently typed as ENFJ, but if e4, more likely INFJ. Some of what you note sounds 3ish to me, however. 3w4s can be very bitter like 4s, but better at creating successful images, more focused on outward signs of achievement, and certainly are "empty" inside.

    The stereotypical dictator typing would be e8, yes (lustful, lack of empathy, magnanimous just to gain power). Perhaps some e1 also.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #63
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Well, he's frequently typed as ENFJ, but if e4, more likely INFJ. Some of what you note sounds 3ish to me, however. 3w4s can be very bitter like 4s, but better at creating successful images, more focused on outward signs of achievement, and certainly are "empty" inside.

    The stereotypical dictator typing would be e8, yes (lustful, lack of empathy, magnanimous just to gain power). Perhaps some e1 also.
    Not easy to type! I'd put Hitler on the 3-4 center-line, though he seems to have given preference to following his own path rather than emphasize any form of success in his life. He may have been 8-fixed...if a core 4, there'd also be a connection to 1.

    I thought he was an ENTP when I first read about him...he fits the profile, and I thought I saw evidence of the functions. In that case, I'd almost rather place him at E3, though I could easily see an argument for INFJ. A tough case all around.

  4. #64
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    When I think about it, I think Hitler was most likely a 1W9. The whole debate about what Hitler's type was can easily be solved if we see him as having fourish traits, but being unhealthy. I would say that points to him being a 1 disinetagrating to 4. Im pretty sure he was Ideal-driven, I dont think 3 makes much sense since even unhealthy 3s try to project a positive image to others even if they cant convince them its their true self. Hitler tried hard to project an "evil" image and turn every human virtue into a counter-virtue in his own psyche. In light of that arguement then, its more likely he was a 4 than a 3...however unhealthy 4 disintegrates to 2, and he seemed the opposite of an altruist, even an unhealthy altruist. Thats why I think it makes sense to consider 1 for Hitler.

  5. #65
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    ^ You know, I thought about the disintegration aspect also. But Hitler did not project an evil image to his supporters. It's my understanding he was quite charismatic. 1s don't fancy themselves evil either. They'd generally still see it as some kind of moral ideal they're fighting for.
    I wouldn't discount e1 though, and really believing a twisted idea is moral is something an unhealthy 1 might do.

    I think we all do see some e4 connection though, a kind of envious bitterness.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #66
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    to be honest, no, I can't
    Of course you couldn't. :P
    The only way out is through. The faster you're in, the better.

  7. #67
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    I'm a type 4, and it's not so much being whiny. It's about trying to find out who we really are, and struggling with being able to connect with other human beings. It's the constant feeling of being alone, I'd have to say. Like, no one can truly understand your true self. But, how could they, when it's difficult for a type 4 to really understand their true self, as well. Everyone has their own way of dealing with life, but to call them wusses is wrong.

  8. #68
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    As a sp/sx 4w5, I havent cried in.....3 years, before that it was about ten years. I agree this likely is emotional repression, but it does lend itself to not being particularly whiny or a wuss.

    Typically I have felt pretty alone, but have discovered several other 748 or 741 tritypes that are also 4w5 sp/sx where I work, all enfps, all older men. In general we piss people off, are bossy, are oblivious to subtlety and have all types of negative characteristics....we are loud, rude and argumentative and convinced we are right until proven wrong, at which point we are right again, which my entp finds hysterical funny.

    We drive others around us to be better and feel the need to extrovert our own high standards upon the folks we work with, as we have a value investment in what we do-thus dont have time for them to screw it up. The funny part is due to the sp/sx, we have this weird inner fluffy child, so when we get together, we smile like little kids and sort of...rub our fuzzy cotton ball insides up against each other, then we proceed to argue like banshees over whatever problem we are solving, but we never really get mad, cause we know we are aligned on the value behind the problem.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    I just watched this documentary about writer James Baldwin, who was definitely a 4w5. He was also an outspoken advocate for civil rights and human rights. He had to deal with being Christian, Black, and gay in the mid 20th century. Definitely not a wuss.
    The only way out is through. The faster you're in, the better.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I skipped a bunch of posts. ... I never associated 4s with being whiney, weepy, and wussy. I'm none of those things. Moody, passionate, melancholy, yes, but not ever wussy, whiney or weepy.

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