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  1. #51
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    - Hitler, if you believe the theory that he was a sx4. Having given a thorough review to his life, I'd say it was *very* possible. 6w5 is not right; nor is 8. Say what you want about Hitler, but he wasn't very wimpy--he took charge.
    I've wondered this myself. Considering that he went from an aspiring artist (who was good at his craft imo) who was homeless, depressed and suicidal, to gaining so much power and influence in the world; he must have been quite audacious. I think there is a compelling argument for Hitler being a 4 regarding his identity issues which were an underlying reason for his shift in aspirations from artist to political/militaristic leader. Essentially, everything he did was to reinforce his belief that he was the savior of Germany and had significance in life. The extent of his grandiose persona was to compensate for the magnitude of emptiness inside.

  2. #52
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    I might be over-sensitive at times, but in general I've developed a pretty thick skin and I can deal with a lot of situations that would break the average person. Sometimes I surprise myself. I handled myself pretty well in jail

    But then my boyfriend could say something that hurts my feelings and I'll cry all night and have a little meltdown so it's pretty inconsistent.

  3. #53
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    I'm sure I'm not the only person here who's frustrated with the view of Type 4 being weak little weeping willows, or impossible divas. Can anyone name some 4s who are actually strong, assertive, and heroic? Someone you know personally or a famous person, alive or dead, or even a fictional example. Stating their wing/stacking would be nice also.
    to be honest, no, I can't
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  4. #54
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    I'm sure I'm not the only person here who's frustrated with the view of Type 4 being weak little weeping willows, or impossible divas. Can anyone name some 4s who are actually strong, assertive, and heroic? Someone you know personally or a famous person, alive or dead, or even a fictional example. Stating their wing/stacking would be nice also.
    Heroism is rather subjective. Plenty of 4's are assertive in their individuality and willingness to oppose the majority. Regardless of motivations, whether healthy or unhealthy, it's a lot easier to go along with the crowd than face criticism, ridicule or persecution. I have no doubt that many 4's have heroically saved lives and defended their sense of morality. There are 9 types in the enneagram and billions of people in the world. Anyone who asserts that a particular type is incapable of "heroism" is woefully ignorant.

  5. #55
    Junior Member click crash boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Your wrists aint gonna slit themselves
    NOT funny, how could you even joke like that?

  6. #56
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Hmm, it's been a while since I wrote this thread. I think my views on 4 have shifted from a concern for "oversensitive-ness" to a concern for usefulness/worthiness, or the lack thereof.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    Hmm, it's been a while since I wrote this thread. I think my views on 4 have shifted from a concern for "oversensitive-ness" to a concern for usefulness/worthiness, or the lack thereof.
    Oh. I've wondered about that one, too. What purpose do we serve society, again? (At least, modern American society). I don't have answers to that one, unfortunately. Another reason I had problems accepting it.

    I'd be grateful to anyone with the answers.

  8. #58
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    From what I can tell, our 'usefulness' comes into play when things are lifted (by a 4) to a level of exquisiteness. It can be applied to anything really. The book I own mentions that 4s thrive in dramatic situations where people are in an uproar to come in and present the 'perfect' solution to harmonise the needs of the situation with the need for harmony amidst the people. Ironically, the 4 will bring in the right people to address the situation, yet often those same people will force the 4 out because of their impractical povs and high drama. Other than that, nobody outdoes us when it comes to refinement and creating an 'experience' apparently. Aesthetics to the point of well..being holistic almost.

    What is the use of this? Well, as my programmer intj says: I learned after many years that while I can make a program and address just about any problem, people will not use the solution Ive created unless I 'dress it up' somehwat. After talking to a designer friend of his, he learned a lot of basic techniques in making something 'userfriendly' aka pretty it up, add a couple of big colourful and helpful (in drawing attention) buttons in order to make it easier for people to figure out how to work shit.

    Consider Apple for instance. One of the reasons the iphone (and products like it) is such a huge success is coz of the perfect marriage between engineers and designers. Yes, the product is effective in doing what it does, but the design makes it so user-friendly and pleasant to use and figure out, a monkey could do it. And this is what makes it the market-leader compared to its competitors.

    Pleasure is a really good motivator for people. And people derive pleasure from things that are aesthetically pleasing and intuitive to follow. And it is exactly that flair and ease that a 4 provides and strives for in his creativity. We often strive for something to be just 'right', and invoke the maximum amount of pleasure in both us and other people. It taps into their soul. Marry that with effectiveness in a product or service that solves a problem or just for sheer entertainment value for the public and you have a winner.
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  9. #59
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    I've wondered this myself. Considering that he went from an aspiring artist (who was good at his craft imo) who was homeless, depressed and suicidal, to gaining so much power and influence in the world; he must have been quite audacious. I think there is a compelling argument for Hitler being a 4 regarding his identity issues which were an underlying reason for his shift in aspirations from artist to political/militaristic leader.
    You know, the first time I heard that Hitler could be a 4, I thought it was the most batshit stupid, insane thing I'd ever heard. But after becoming more familiar with sx-4s and figuring out I was a 4, I think it's a very real possibility. Frankly, at this point, I'm not sure what else he'd have been.

    Essentially, everything he did was to reinforce his belief that he was the savior of Germany and had significance in life. The extent of his grandiose persona was to compensate for the magnitude of emptiness inside.
    Not sure I agree with this part, though. Surely we 4s are capable of dreaming big and taking action in the world for other reasons than to prove our own significance/cover inner emptiness?

  10. #60
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    You know, the first time I heard that Hitler could be a 4, I thought it was the most batshit stupid, insane thing I'd ever heard. But after becoming more familiar with sx-4s and figuring out I was a 4, I think it's a very real possibility. Frankly, at this point, I'm not sure what else he'd have been.


    Not sure I agree with this part, though. Surely we 4s are capable of dreaming big and taking action in the world for other reasons than to prove our own significance/cover inner emptiness?
    Oh...certainly. I hardly think that Hitler was a healthy 4 though. I read a biography a while ago, but I'm mostly referring to this documentary.

    At 41:20, renowned political profiler, Jerrold Post, suggests that Hitler created a grandiose facade to compensate for his lack of self-contentment. He seemed more concerned about his legacy and image as a savior than the wellbeing of Germany.



    More evidence that Hitler was probably a very unhealthy 4 sx, regarding his unrequited infatuation with Stefanie Rabatsch:

    Wikipedia

    According to Kubizek, Hitler never spoke to Stefanie, always saying he would do so "tomorrow",[1] and loathed those who flirted with her, especially the military officers, whom he called "conceited blockheads"; he came to feel an "uncompromising enmity towards the officer class as a whole, and everything military in general. It annoyed him intensely that Stefanie mixed with such idlers who, he insisted, wore corsets and used scent".[1] Since Hitler disliked dancing, once he learnt that Stefanie loved to dance, he said, "Once Stefanie is my wife, she won't have the slightest desire to dance!"[1]

    Kubizek further states: "Stefanie had no idea how deeply Adolf was in love with her; she regarded him as a somewhat shy, but nevertheless remarkably tenacious and faithful, admirer. When she responded with a smile to his inquiring glance, he was happy and his mood became unlike anything I had ever observed in him. But when Stefanie, as happened just as often, coldly ignored his gaze, he was crushed and ready to destroy himself and the whole world."[1][5] He finally planned to kidnap Stefanie and kill both her and himself by jumping off a bridge into the Danube.[1] Instead he moved to Vienna, where an idealised image of Stefanie became his moral touchstone.[6]

    Rabatsch stated in later interviews that she was unaware of Hitler at the time, but that she had received an anonymous love letter asking her to wait for him to graduate and then to marry him, which she only realised after being questioned about him, must have been from Hitler.[6] She married an Austrian army officer, and after the Second World War lived in Vienna.[1][6] She was interviewed and Hitler's love for her dramatised in a 1973 Austro-German television documentary written by Georg Stefan Troller and directed by Axel Corti.[
    ^ Interesting to note that he hated the military prior to serving and becoming a dictator.

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