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  1. #21
    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
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    Type 4 that isn't 'oversensitive' is kind of a contradiction, that term would also mean something different for everyone too. When type 4s are healthy they are way wise and as Orange said, 'champions of the underdogs' etc. I think 4w3s are more likely to show their awesomeness

    My 2 cents; Bob Dylan, Gwen Stefani? She's pretty ballsy for a lady , MJ
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    So, I'm retracting my previous statement about 4's being mostly a bunch of wusses. I think many of them are tougher than they appear. Sure, they're easily moved to tears, but crying in itself is not a sign of weakness, but passion.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    I'm sure I'm not the only person here who's frustrated with the view of Type 4 being weak little weeping willows, or impossible divas. Can anyone name some 4s who are actually strong, assertive, and heroic? Someone you know personally or a famous person, alive or dead, or even a fictional example. Stating their wing/stacking would be nice also.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    So, I'm retracting my previous statement about 4's being mostly a bunch of wusses. I think many of them are tougher than they appear. Sure, they're easily moved to tears, but crying in itself is not a sign of weakness, but passion.
    I'm a 4w5-6w5-9w1 Sx/Sp ENFP. I'm definitely assertive. Being an extrovert, having well-developed Te, and possessing a counterphobic 6w5 head fix probably all play into this.

    My assertiveness doesn't manifest in being competitive, driven, or controlling like it would in some other types. It comes out through openly expressing my personal identity and will followed by staunchly defending them. Don't tell me who I am, don't speak on my behalf, and don't try to control me. I'm even more assertive when someone is preying on others. I come to others' defense more quickly and unforgivingly than I do to my own.

    I've always felt that Fourish feeling of being fundamentally flawed deep down in the core of my being yet never understanding what the flaw is, what's causing it, or how to fix it. My reaction to that as a young adolescent was to never accept weakness in myself and to develop inner strength. One consequence is that the last time I ever cried was when I was twelve. I may be hard on myself, but I'm very empathetic, accepting, understanding, and compassionate with others. Then again, I'm only hard on myself because I don't want to let myself sink down into the negative feelings I have inside, so I guess it makes sense.

    Make no mistake, I feel very strongly and I'm in touch with my feelings. I just don't let myself validate negative feelings that seem to spring from nowhere. When I feel something negative that I can't find justification for, I don't hang onto it and let it take hold. I try to just let it pass through me, to get rid of it, to vent it. On the other hand, I make an effort to hang on to the positive ones.

    I also set up personal ideals. These have nothing to do with practical concerns or accomplishments. They have to do with who I become in terms of character and qualities. I compare myself to these often. I don't focus on how I fall short but rather on how well I measure up to them. I take pride in this and use it as encouragement to keeping growing.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Phoenix's Avatar
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    Hmmm ... weird assumption especially considering that 4 is a reactive type.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    I just retook my enneagram test for the first time in years and it looks like I'm a 4w5, 5w4. I am very emotional, but I think due to the close association to 5, I tend to reign in my emotions a lot. (Correct my if I'm wrong about that, I'm just guessing.) I mean... a lot. There's a lot to reign in. No one would ever call me a "weak little weeping willow". I very rarely cry in front of people or at all. I think most people would be a little scared I was ever 100% open with my emotions. Or even like 50%. Heh..

  6. #26
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Hmmm ... weird assumption especially considering that 4 is a reactive type.
    You bet your ass we are!!!
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  7. #27
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Fours
    Diane Arbus, Charles Baudelaire, Ingmar Bergman, Bjork, Cate Blanchett, Kate Bush, Nicolas Cage, Maria Callas, Albert Camus, Prince Charles, Eric Clapton, Cheryl Crow, James Dean, Johnny Depp, Neil Diamond, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Bob Dylan, William Faulkner, Hermann Hesse, Michael Jackson, Jewel, Angelina Jolie, Janis Joplin, Jack Kerouac,Sarah MacLachlan, John Malkovich, Marilyn Manson, Michaelangelo, Claude Monet, Jim Morrison, Alanis Morrisette, Morrissey, Liam Neeson, Stevie Nicks, Anais Nin, Nick Nolte, Gary Oldman, Laurence Olivier, Edith Piaf, Edgar Allen Poe, Natalie Portman, Prince, Anne Rice, Alan Rickman, Arthur Rimbaud, Winona Ryder, Dusty Springfield, August Strindberg, Vincent Van Gogh, Orson Welles, Oscar Wilde, Gene Wilder, Tennessee Williams, Kate Winslet, Virginia Woolf.
    Björk: 5 Nicolas Cage: 9 Prince Charle: 1. Clapton: 9 Sheryl Crow: 9 Jewel: 9 Angelina Jolie: 6 Janis Joplin: 9 Jack Kerouac: 6 Jim Morrison: 7 Gary Oldman: 3 Nathalie Portaman: 1 Alan Rickman: 1 Rimbaud: 7
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  8. #28
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    The beast from Beauty & The Beast is a 4w3 So/Sx. Very sensitive, but definetly not a wuss.

    Also, Siouxie Sioux and George Michael.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  9. #29
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    your kidding right? we're the one type whose self esteem isn't tied down to any strengths or positive traits. everyone else has this huge sense of loss of identity whenever the positives of their self image is broken, we thrive in such awesome chances to get know ourselves better, our identity is already self seeking and defined by it's motions more then any attribute we might hold dear (FYI- you know your a 4 if that just made you jealous of everyone else).

  10. #30
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Björk: 5 Nicolas Cage: 9 Prince Charle: 1. Clapton: 9 Sheryl Crow: 9 Jewel: 9 Angelina Jolie: 6 Janis Joplin: 9 Jack Kerouac: 6 Jim Morrison: 7 Gary Oldman: 3 Nathalie Portaman: 1 Alan Rickman: 1 Rimbaud: 7
    Why is Nick Cage a 5? He seems like a 6 or 7 to me.

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