User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 45

Thread: Myths about 3s

  1. #21
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    HUMR
    Enneagram
    6 sx
    Socionics
    iNfp Ni
    Posts
    1,521

    Default

    I've posted this in another thread, but I'm a goon and going to post it again. =)

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3NBymYSEPo"].[/YOUTUBE]
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  2. #22
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    this is the best description of Type 3 I've seen
    http://www.personalitynation.com/hea...tml#post111793
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  3. #23
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    this is the best description of Type 3 I've seen
    http://www.personalitynation.com/hea...tml#post111793
    Some of his points are spot-on, but his approach of 'hiding behind' what the books say is wrongheaded--even Naranjo says a lot of things that are complete bullshit. His introduction reveals a great stab at getting to the core of the 3 and shedding stereotypes, but then he launches into and defends stereotypes.

    The one thing that I learned from that thread is that the author that I was thinking of above was Helen Palmer. Gotta read me some of that.

    Let me preface this by saying that I know that my post is going to reek of '4,' or at least a lot of 'not 3.' Integrated? Disintegrated? Mistyped? I can't be assed to debate the nuances of types; only to tell it from my perspective. There are others who are more interested in typology theory than I am, and I'll leave the great debates of what is and isn't a 3 to them. But if there's any 3 in me, then there's some truth to the following. If there isn't, then don't let my perception muddy the waters of what a 3 is about.

    Some of the OP describes me in my younger days. Most of the OP reminds me of an old friend of mine, who I'd peg as a stereotypical but unhealthy 3w2 so/sx. He was psychopathic but smart, and he manipulated absolutely everyone around him. Constant talk of "status" in a way that was balls-out honest with me but that I found sickening. After a falling-out, he reconnected with me in order to 'grease the wheels'; he seemed genuinely interested in friendship but quickly began to ask me for favors. While I didn't mind talking to him, I took a hard stance against doing favors for him. He asked me for a favor, I said no, and he hasn't talked to me since, presumably because I wasn't a pawn to him. The end.

    --

    Some of the counterpoints regarding identity are spot-on, or at least they resonate with me.
    I disagree with your statement about the 3 viewing individuality as being useless, but that's more or less because 1.) I've changed a lot from how I originally viewed myself, and 2.) my image at school IS ironically built on being outlandish and unique.
    Moreover, I make my mark by being idiosyncratic; it's what I'm known for. If everyone is doing the same thing, it's easier to not drown and to stay on top by learning the game and traversing a line that's tangential to it or that transcends it. For example, when I was young and cared more about winning people over, I quickly learned that I'd impress more people and 'earn more points' by pointing out how competitive other people are. Bowling a perfect game and becoming an ass about it doesn't help one win friends. (Besides, I'm terrible at bowling, which means that I'd rather not compete in it!)

    Winning a game of bowling so that one can gloat over so-called 'friends' is one goal. Winning friends is another goal. But there are higher goals yet, and I'm too damn ambitious to ignore them.

    To the question of, "what do I, bologna, want?" What's my goal? A 'high score' is one way to look at my goal. I've come to the ironic, trite, but likely true belief that the 'highest score' comes from transcending 'the game of life' in general--that reaching the highest score comes from not giving a damn about the highest score.

    So, even striving for greatness gets me falling into my neuroses from time to time, too. If I were content with being complacent, I'd be pretty happy. Striving to generally be 'great' is like actively trying not to think of a pink elephant (a cognitive science staple)--the very act of doing so makes the exercise doomed to fail. The average-to-unhealthy don't realize this, and, of course, to some extent, neither do I.

    --

    and
    They disconnect themselves from the failed project and instead associate themselves with something positive. The failures are quickly brushed under a carpet, hopefully never to be seen or heard from again.
    When I need some 'McDonald's-level' (short-term fulfilling but ultimately unhealthy) reassurance, I try to shed the aspects of myself that are negative--the "old me" doesn't exist and never existed. I don't claim the title of "Engineer" despite having two engineering degrees because everyone else does engineering and how would I set myself apart if I talked about what I did to people I haven't met before?? People are more intrigued and even intimidated by "psychologists"; touting that aspect of my background can give me the 'upper hand.' But if someone important--say a potential customer--values engineering, then I'll be damn sure to spin my resume around to promote a label of "engineer plus."

    Ah, attempts to control perception. "Don't pay attention to those aspects of me; pay attention to these instead." I don't show my entire hand; I show the relevant cards. Plopping down that entire hand would be too self-revealing.

    --

    But the silver lining is this: it turns out that the guys who made it into the history books and had the some of the most impact on the world trumpeted the merits of personal integrity. It stands to reason that, if I want to make an impact on the world, then I'd be foolish not to listen to that bit of wisdom.

    And if I have the goal of transcending my Enneagram-derived neuroses, I'd better damn well pay attention to descriptions of the 'Level 1,' 'healthy' version of the type 3--which also revolves around integrity. So it's the right thing to do, and also it would help me reach my goal. Win-win; convenient convergence of different perspectives; multiple paths leading to the top of Mount Sinai.

    Someone who's truly goal-oriented (and striving for the right goals) would come to recognize this fact of life:
    Regarding the GPA/grades, yeah that's basically how I sometimes stupefied 3s back in my undergraduate college lol. They were working SO hard to maintain their GPA at 4.0, at working out every single detail and stress about these labels, that when they saw me having conversations with professors and obtaining letters of recommendation from them which eventually got me into one of the top programs in the world, they were like "WTF?! Why not to me? I studied much more than you!" to which I thought "These numbers really don't mean shit down the lane. You have to be able to be yourself with people you seek out help from, and not just be a little suck-up, because it's that attitude which will make people see you in a more natural light and open doors for you. If a person doesn't feel he/she has a certain connection with you, they won't know what to think of you other than 'oh ok, he can work, cool'". Then I'd be met by "but I got to where I am because of my grades!" and I'd just go "and I am in the same place than you and I didn't strain myself half of what you did to get here "
    Grades are a pretty solid metric that can make or break a status-conscious individual, and a perfect GPA is one measure that can serve as some much-needed external validation. But the reality is that (at least in my estimation) getting to the top takes networking, work experience, and a bit of well-roundedness in addition to a pretty good GPA.

    It turns out that 'the game'--this very career-oriented, myopic one--isn't strictly a meritocracy. Oh, and neither is 'The Game.'

    #14. The ends justify the means. It's true, the ends do justify the means. But the ends themselves ought to be worthwhile and all-encompassing.
    Last edited by garbage; 06-01-2012 at 12:13 PM. Reason: I edited this post so many damn times

  4. #24
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    18,429

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    3) 3s are sensitive and their egos are easily offended
    no again. 3s are a forward looking type. they're much more focused on their goals and ambitions than they are on you.
    I think this depends. I know some very sensitive 3s. One factor that it probably depends on is MBTI type; an ENFJ 3 is going to be much more sensitive than an ESTJ 3.
    4) 3s are very conscientious in a similar way to 1s
    no. type 3 and type 1 are miles apart internally. the 3s motivation is selfish. they are the bird of paradise dancing for a mate, the alpha wolf seeking to prove his dominance over the pack or the little kid trying to max out his score on a video game. they are somewhat perfectionist, but overall the 3 is more concerned with
    - how do I get it done
    - how do I get it done fast
    - how do I do it in a sexy way
    the 1's focus is more lateral, scanning their environment for mistakes, imperfections and sinful conduct; the 3 on the other hand has tunnel vision. if most people are human beings, 3s are human doing and what they are doing and the future success/fame/glory etc that the said project will bring them.
    This seems right.

    I have some close 3 friends, and we initially come across as very similar because we're so controlled and driven and intense to be around. But only when you get to know us do you see that the difference is that the 3s are motivated by wanting to prove themselves, to themselves and the rest of the world, as the best, or at least very, very good at what they do, from external standards. Like you said, there's definitely an element of tunnel vision with 3s; I have an ENFJ 3 friend who has decided that in his lifetime, he will become fluent in all of the UN official languages. He's already fluent in two or three of them, and working on three more! As a 1, I can't really understand that, because it's like setting up a race for yourself to run, and then running it, and calling that your life's work -- just for the sake of being impressive. If a 1 wants to be impressive, it's either a secondary goal, or a means to an end, because 1s are so often driven by factors unrelated to themselves or their own personal skill, but related to a broad, moral (and irrational) concept.

    I'm stereotyping a little bit here, and I hope that didn't look like I'm trying to portray 3s in a negative light, because I'm not. My main point is really just that it seems to me that 3s are driven by a need to be very skilled, very smart, very something-or-another -- which is a pretty laser-focused way of living life -- but 1s need a broad, morality-based motive in order to be similarly driven. For example: a 3 and a 1 become co-presidents of a club at their university. The 3 may have become co-president because getting that sort of leadership experience would be useful in their Grand Plan for themselves, leading to the finish line that they've set for themselves. Whereas the 1 likely became co-president because as they were a dutiful member of the club the previous year, they noticed some flaws in the way the group was run, that kept the group from doing all that it could do -- so the 1 feels it's their duty, as someone who noticed the problems, to fix them.

    I dunno. I don't get the impression that I'm being very insightful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - even unhealthy 3s are not very sensitive, they just tend to become more Machiavellian and manipulative
    You're right about the action, but not the motivation. The aforementioned ENFJ friend of mine is VERY sensitive, and will only act Machiavellian and manipulative to the people who hurt his tender feelings. (But he REALLY gets Machiavellian and manipulative in those situations! Mr. Sensitive ENFJ will become a cold-blooded backstabbing machine, if someone is mean to him.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    For whatever reason (parental orientation or other) the 3's greatest fear is that underneath it all, they are worthless, unacceptable, unloveable, as IS.
    Oh, definitely -- this rings true with my experience with the 3s in my life.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #25
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFj
    Posts
    1,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I keep getting told to stop climbing the mountain and enjoy the damn view once in a while. At my worst, that advice makes me cringe; it feels as though if I actually stop to enjoy the fruits of my labor, become complacent, or rest on my laurels, then I'm wasting time--and time is a finite, continually depleting resource. I'll fall behind if I don't make the most of it, and I'll drown if I don't stay on top of things.
    You don't have to achieve greatness to spend your time to the fullest, you know.
    MBTI: INFP
    Enneagram: 6w7, phobic
    Tritype: 6-9-2
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/Sp
    Temperament: Pure Supine
    D&D Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: Solid Liberal
    Religious Views: Atheist

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  6. #26
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    You don't have to achieve greatness to spend your time to the fullest, you know.
    Yeah, this is the thing that's hard to internalize. My head knows that making the most of my time is all about enjoying it, but my gut doesn't.

    Or, the other way around

  7. #27
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFj
    Posts
    1,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Yeah, this is the thing that's hard to internalize. My head knows that making the most of my time is all about enjoying it, but my gut doesn't.

    Or, the other way around
    Contrarily, it doesn't make sense to me why you would even view that as "spending your time to the fullest".

    I consider just making your life as enjoyable as possible to be spending your time to the fullest.
    MBTI: INFP
    Enneagram: 6w7, phobic
    Tritype: 6-9-2
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/Sp
    Temperament: Pure Supine
    D&D Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: Solid Liberal
    Religious Views: Atheist

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,532

    Default

    I can be very sensitive and can also be a total bitch when insulted. I'm very snippy about it too (if I'm really really offended of coarse). Just yesterday after class I got pretty vocal with my project partners. I was as cold as ice and it felt great... Muahaha haha ha! If I didn't stand up for myself I would have dwelled on it for too long and also would have felt a lot of regret. I did however email them that same night to apologize...we are a team and the show must go on. Someone said in a previous post that if a 3 doesn't care for someone much they won't give a rats ass about what they think of them, I find this to be true as well.
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

  9. #29
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
    I can be very sensitive and can also be a total bitch when insulted. I'm very snippy about it too (if I'm really really offended of coarse). Just yesterday after class I got pretty vocal with my project partners. I was as cold as ice and it felt great... Muahaha haha ha! If I didn't stand up for myself I would have dwelled on it for too long and also would have felt a lot of regret. I did however email them that same night to apologize...we are a team and the show must go on. Someone said in a previous post that if a 3 doesn't care for someone much they won't give a rats ass about what they think of them, I find this to be true as well.
    exactly. 3s care more about getting shit done then they care about socializing and obsessing about what other people think of them
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #30
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFj
    Posts
    1,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    exactly. 3s care more about getting shit done then they care about socializing and obsessing about what other people think of them
    I'm guessing that's more of a 2 or 6 thing to do?
    MBTI: INFP
    Enneagram: 6w7, phobic
    Tritype: 6-9-2
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/Sp
    Temperament: Pure Supine
    D&D Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: Solid Liberal
    Religious Views: Atheist

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

Similar Threads

  1. 4 myths about North Korea
    By Olm the Water King in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 03-18-2016, 05:33 AM
  2. [E7] Myths about 7w6s
    By Elfboy in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-15-2013, 01:42 PM
  3. [ENFP] Common (...ahem, BS) Myths about ENFPs
    By Elfboy in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 05-09-2012, 05:34 AM
  4. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 02-27-2010, 08:25 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO